Different levels of thinking/stages of development etc..

Imposter

Are there any good threads/articles/etc out there or does anyone have anything worthwhile to say on the various levels of thinking that players go through?

Just thinking about it i'm getting a headache! The "he thinks that you think that he thinks...." is awfully complicated to even think about discussing.

I suppose a beginner will be someone who plays just their own cards without knowing a thing about odds or recognising that they have opponents! Different people will recognise, learn and apply different concepts at different stages of their development as a poker player. Of course they will also use concepts they don't even know they are using

I guess people with read texts such as the theory of poker and will match what they read to what they can understand and will kinda skip over the stuff they don't really understand. Is this a fair assessment? If so then the higher level concepts will only hit home when we're ready for them or is there a way to accelerate the learning curve to learn and understand concepts we really shouldn't be ready for?

I guess the answer to most of these musings could be to read more threads on forums like this and 2+2 but some of these advanced concepts must appear in written form outside of forum threads!

Similarly I was asked recently if I knew where to find any info on advanced tournament strategy! Is there anything beyond HOH that is worth reading?

Hmm.. reading through that again it's all over the place. Can anyone kinda make out what i'm getting at and have something interesting to add?

Scouser in Dub

It's dealt with specifically by Sklansky in NLHE Theory and Practice

The trick seems to be knowing what level your opponent is on and being a level above

Imposter

Scouser in Dub wrote:

It's dealt with specifically by Sklansky in NLHE Theory and Practice

The trick seems to be knowing what level your opponent is on and being a level above

Ok i've not read that one but the whole idea of levels is what i'm getting at. Different people will have different moves and be aware of different things that can't be easily pigeonholed into 'levels'.

DeVore

Things to look for are "do they bet their draws" "do they over value suited cards" "Do they over value medium pairs up front". These things will give you an idea of the level the player is at though some players progress areas of their game faster then others.

Btw, its a curiousity that almost all decent players I know started out having a terrific run for 6 months, read some books and then had a slump in results before slowly building back up to decent results.

Says something donnit? I'm not sure *what* but it definitely says something!

DeV.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

don't think that happened me, although dev did say decent players :rolleyes:


On the levels thing, when I was playing the hu game with hj I was sitting there facing a bet thinking hmmm, what level is he on/does he think I'm on, in a muddle of he "knows that...i know...", meanwhile he was probably slumped in front of his pc drooling on his keyboard in a drunken mess with a vague notion of some game going on.

Hectorjelly

hey I wasnt that drunk!

phantom_lord

Hectorjelly wrote:

hey I wasnt that drunk!

yeah u weren't really. unfortunately...

DeVore

I think a lot of times players overthink hands (I know I do)! Too often your opponents are sitting there thinking "look at all the colour in BOTH my cards!"

DeV.

Ste05

Imposter wrote:

Are there any good threads/articles/etc out there or does anyone have anything worthwhile to say on the various levels of thinking that players go through?

I suppose a beginner will be someone who plays just their own cards without knowing a thing about odds or recognising that they have opponents! Different people will recognise, learn and apply different concepts at different stages of their development as a poker player. Of course they will also use concepts they don't even know they are using

Here's something written by Ray Zee that's kinda related about the development stages of Poker players:

http://www.twoplustwo.com/zee2.html

nicnicnic

DeVore wrote:

Btw, its a curiousity that almost all decent players I know started out having a terrific run for 6 months, read some books and then had a slump in results before slowly building back up to decent results.


DeV.

I feel its just the way people with some sort of ability for the game develops.

I know many people here used to play snooker, now when i played snooker and was at a stage my highest break was sixty/seventy and I would knock in regular 40 to 50 breaks. Then a period of bad form would arrive where my game would deteriorate but when I'd hit form again my game would of improved I'd hit a new highest break and my regular breaks would now be in the 50s and 60s. I think that a persons poker game develops in the same manner.

I'm basically saying that a move to a higher level is proceeded by a transition period where your game is neither here nor there

Brayruit

nicnicnic wrote:

I'm basically saying that a move to a higher level is proceeded by a transition period where your game is neither here nor there

Yeah... like golf... try out a new swing / grip whatever and game goes to pieces for a few weeks. Persist and it is worth it.

Try out thinking about levels of thinking of your opponents at poker and for a while your game goes to pieces while you continually over analyse and misread what your opponent is doing / thinking... but then (hopefully ) it all falls into place?