The start of an NTL nightmare...

fixxation

I've been an NTL customer for years, and heard loads of horror stories about them but never figured it would happen until I tried to cancel my cable subscription last September when I moved house.

Rang in early Sept to cancel the cable TV as I was moving house at the end of Sept 2006. Cust service rep says no problem, it takes a month to cancel, etc and I said no problem - as I just wanted to have it done.

Checked my internet banking in early Dec 2006, and noticed two direct debits from them, one in Oct and one in Dec when it was supposed to be canceled. Angry at this, but not overly surprised I rang in and told them of the issue. They apologized and said someone would return my call ASAP to set up the refund and have it issued to me.

Here we are in Jan, still no call back. I tried calling customer support and I get a message saying all their computer systems are down, call back between 3 and 4pm and then it just hangs-up. So I tried the email approach, but I'm not expecting much from that... I had sent a few other emails in December as well and no reply from any of them or anyone there. It's like talking to a wall.

Does anyone know of a management contact name/number/email that I could send these emails to? I feel this situation will be drawn out by month (or possibly not even get a refund!) if I continue trying to chase it up by the normal means/channels.... argh, here we go...

Cheers
A.

dub45

fixxation wrote:

I've been an NTL customer for years, and heard loads of horror stories about them but never figured it would happen until I tried to cancel my cable subscription last September when I moved house.

Rang in early Sept to cancel the cable TV as I was moving house at the end of Sept 2006. Cust service rep says no problem, it takes a month to cancel, etc and I said no problem - as I just wanted to have it done.

Checked my internet banking in early Dec 2006, and noticed two direct debits from them, one in Oct and one in Dec when it was supposed to be canceled. Angry at this, but not overly surprised I rang in and told them of the issue. They apologized and said someone would return my call ASAP to set up the refund and have it issued to me.

Here we are in Jan, still no call back. I tried calling customer support and I get a message saying all their computer systems are down, call back between 3 and 4pm and then it just hangs-up. So I tried the email approach, but I'm not expecting much from that... I had sent a few other emails in December as well and no reply from any of them or anyone there. It's like talking to a wall.

Does anyone know of a management contact name/number/email that I could send these emails to? I feel this situation will be drawn out by month (or possibly not even get a refund!) if I continue trying to chase it up by the normal means/channels.... argh, here we go...

Cheers
A.

Have you approached your bank and asked them to cancel the dd? In the circumstances they should also be able to refund your direct debit and dont take any nonsense from your bank NTL are in the wrong here big time (what a a surprise!)

http://www.ipso.ie/frames/documents/PayersGuide.pdf

fixxation

dub45 wrote:

Have you approached your bank and asked them to cancel the dd? In the circumstances they should also be able to refund your direct debit and dont take any nonsense from your bank NTL are in the wrong here big time (what a a surprise!)

http://www.ipso.ie/frames/documents/PayersGuide.pdf

Yeah, I cancelled all future debits from NTL in December, send in a fax and everything to my branch, but they said it wouldn't stop the debits 100% as they are OP debits where NTL holds the control... still, you'd think my own bank would be able to stop anything being debited as they control my account.

Will have to ring them and see if the can reverse the two previous NTL transactions, sounds like a credit card chargeback that I've had to use before with another company.

Ahhh, the whole routine with these broadband and cable companies... such a pain in the arse. The only supply companies I have any faith in these days is ESB and Bord Gais - no hassle, ever!

On to the next step!
Thanks for the reply..

A.

dub45

As a matter of interest are you using a cc or direct debit? if it is direct debit then what the bank are telling you is nonsense - show them the guide from the ipso site. It is interesting that this guide never seems to be available in any bank!!:rolleyes:

jor el

fixxation wrote:

Yeah, I cancelled all future debits from NTL in December, send in a fax and everything to my branch, but they said it wouldn't stop the debits 100% as they are OP debits where NTL holds the control... still, you'd think my own bank would be able to stop anything being debited as they control my account.

You are the only person in control of your account. Some banks (AIB for one anyway) like to tell people that they are not in control of their own account but this is just a lie. Certainly a third party has no control over your accounts so to tell you that NTL are in control is just wrong.

I wasn't aware that a bank can reverse an un-authorised direct debit (which these two from NTL were and they're not refunding them either), so the best thing to do would be to contact the bank again. If you get nowhere ask them to put you through to the manager as you have a serious complaint to make about them. That may get a favorable result.

dub45

jor el wrote:

You are the only person in control of your account. Some banks (AIB for one anyway) like to tell people that they are not in control of their own account but this is just a lie. Certainly a third party has no control over your accounts so to tell you that NTL are in control is just wrong.

I wasn't aware that a bank can reverse an un-authorised direct debit (which these two from NTL were and they're not refunding them either), so the best thing to do would be to contact the bank again. If you get nowhere ask them to put you through to the manager as you have a serious complaint to make about them. That may get a favorable result.

This is the infuriating thing about this bloody direct debit system!!!! All sorts of promises are made to people as they are encouraged to set them up but when it comes to cancelling the lack of knowledge amongst bank staff really kicks in.

Tell the bank staff that you want that dd cancelled immediately and if they raise any objection tell them that you want to see the manager or you will make a formal complaint to ifsra and the banking ombudsman. It really is outrageous that banks and companies are so cavalier in their attitudes to people's accounts.

By the way I wonder how many people realise that the new direct debit system which allows for dd's to be set up over the phone only requires a company to give 7 days advance notice to a customer of debit. and of course there is no definition of either the 7 days or the 14 days in the scheme. A company can date a bill as it likes and it need bear no relation at all to the date the bills are actually posted.

JNive

yup, if you get the bill in the post, check the 'issue' date, versus the postmark, versus the arrival date. postmark to arrival should be no more than 2 days.
issue to postmark should be no more than 3. and these are realistic maximums. And in terms of when the 7 days applies from, i believe most people insist that the time of ntoice is assumed to be 3 working days after posting date i believe, not the date the bill was issued.

dub45

JNive wrote:

yup, if you get the bill in the post, check the 'issue' date, versus the postmark, versus the arrival date. postmark to arrival should be no more than 2 days.
issue to postmark should be no more than 3. and these are realistic maximums. And in terms of when the 7 days applies from, i believe most people insist that the time of ntoice is assumed to be 3 working days after posting date i believe, not the date the bill was issued.

If you notice now though a lot of business mail is not actually postmarked so there is nothing to stop a company putting any date they like on the bills and then claiming that you got your notice in the time allowed.

And with all due respects to your good self 'believing' what the 7 days or 14 days means is irrelevant as is has no meaning whatsoever in practical terms.
the d/d scheme should clearly define what exactly the seven or fourteen days means.

Imagine how many bills NTL issue each billing period and the physical effort involved in actually getting them ready - it is difficult to believe that the actual date of posting bears any resemblance to the date on the bills.

The direct debit scheme also becomes irrelevant when you think how difficult it now is to query a bill and point out any problems with it in advance of your account being debited - how can the average person with a job family etc attempt to query a bill when it may mean being on the phone for literally hours on end...........:eek:

JNive

yeah, there should be a provision to cap the maximum amount that can be put through on the DD for each one that is setup, so say you sign with smart, and say cap it at 50, then you wont get suprised too much if you get a bill late, or cant reverse a dispute charge in time etc.

fixxation

dub45 wrote:

As a matter of interest are you using a cc or direct debit? if it is direct debit then what the bank are telling you is nonsense - show them the guide from the ipso site. It is interesting that this guide never seems to be available in any bank!!:rolleyes:

Yeah, it is direct debit-- funny, after starting up this thread a day ago, they rang yesterday to talk about setting up a new account. I explained I wanted it cancelled and they confirmed they could "see" some sort of refund on my file, however there has been no money back to me yet... again, was told someone will call back.

They did say that a cheque could be issued but no exact date, which is the bit that concerns me-- I don't want to be chasing this 120 euro cheque for the first half of 2007! Perhaps I'll wait one more week to see if it arrives, and then if there's nothing here I'll show that ISPO doc to my bank and force a cancellation and refund.

RangeR

fixxation wrote:

Yeah, it is direct debit-- funny, after starting up this thread a day ago, they rang yesterday to talk about setting up a new account. I explained I wanted it cancelled and they confirmed they could "see" some sort of refund on my file, however there has been no money back to me yet... again, was told someone will call back.

They did say that a cheque could be issued but no exact date, which is the bit that concerns me-- I don't want to be chasing this 120 euro cheque for the first half of 2007! Perhaps I'll wait one more week to see if it arrives, and then if there's nothing here I'll show that ISPO doc to my bank and force a cancellation and refund.

I went down this route with Chorus [they are the same company as NTL now]. But you have to be prepared to follow through.