McDowell is "Boring"?!!!

The_Minister

On an RTE programme (forget the name) recently, a panel of floating voters labelled McDowell as boring. Now, there are many things that you could say about McDowell, but boring is not one of them, in my opinion. He always is fighting with someone, or reforming something, or speaking out on something. He is probably one of the most high-profile members of the Dail.
Who here thinks McDowell is boring? and why?

(I would insert a poll, but I don't seem to be able)

sovtek

This is another pointless issue to sidetrack from real ones. Who cares if he's boring as long as he does a good job and enacts policies that benefit the public he is sworn to represent.

Colonel Sanders

Love him or hate him he's certainly not boring.

I think it is relevant as it shows how clueless some voters are and how many others lack any interest in politics. These same people who will decide who runs our country for the next 5 years.

kove

sovtek wrote:

as long as he does a good job and enacts policies that benefit the public he is sworn to represent.

If I'm missing the sarcasm here forgive me but to which policies exactly are you referring?

And as for the myth put about by some that politics would be so much duller without McDowell to entertain us all.. I don't think that being loud and obnoxious makes someone interesting. Quite the opposite in fact. So, yes, I guess you have one vote for McDowell being an insufferable bore.

The_Minister

kove wrote:

If I'm missing the sarcasm here forgive me but to which policies exactly are you referring?

Cafe bars would be the first to come to mind.

lostexpectation

The_Minister wrote:

Cafe bars would be the first to come to mind.

the people in the dodgey show were bored of him going on about sinnfein being a threat they don't take seriously, that's what they were bored of in that particular context.

cafe bars, where are after all these years?

The_Minister

lostexpectation wrote:

the people in the dodgey show were bored of him going on about sinnfein being a threat they don't take seriously, that's what they were bored of in that particular context.

I thought that they said that he was boring overall? Can't really remeber what the context was now.

lostexpectation wrote:

cafe bars, where are after all these years?

They aren't coming. There was a FF rebellion, and FG opposed it outright, so it couldn't be done.

sovtek

kove wrote:

If I'm missing the sarcasm here forgive me but to which policies exactly are you referring?

I was making a general statement about political discourse. I'm not aware of any good policies from the Mic.

Macy

Iirc in that programme it was when he was attacking someone that the audience switched off. It's exactly the stuff that some people think makes him interesting that turned the floating voters off him. I'd be much more interested in him making coherent arguements than his usual nasty nonsense.

flogen

Well his attacks on politicians wouldn't make him boring, in my mind, they just don't make him all that interesting.

They would switch people off if/when overdone; regardless of the sentiment or the amount of fireworks he uses in his attacks if he does it too much (and some may say that once is too much) then people in the middle would instantly think "oh here we go, McDowell off on another rant" and move on.

ballooba

Colonel Sanders wrote:

Love him or hate him he's certainly not boring.

I hate him , but I would never for a second call him boring.

Colonel Sanders wrote:

I think it is relevant as it shows how clueless some voters are and how many others lack any interest in politics. These same people who will decide who runs our country for the next 5 years.

Scary how clueless people are, but I doubt they will bother to vote.

Colonel Sanders

you'd be surprised, the amount of people I know who'd vote for someone becsue 'he/she seems a nice fella/girl' is outrageous.

There is also a large proportion of voters who have no idea about policies but continue to vote FF because De Valira didn't sign the treaty over 80 yrs ago.

Colonel Sanders

Colonel Sanders wrote:

There is also a large proportion of voters who have no idea about policies but continue to vote FF because De Valira didn't sign the treaty over 80 yrs ago.

There is a large proportion of voters who have no idea about policies but continue to hate FF because de Valera didn't sign the Treaty over 80 years ago.

sovtek

Colonel Sanders wrote:

you'd be surprised, the amount of people I know who'd vote for someone becsue 'he/she seems a nice fella/girl' is outrageous.

There is also a large proportion of voters who have no idea about policies

It might be because of pointless discussions of how a politician is boring or not.

Dave!

Enda Kenny is boring. Mickey Mack is not boring.

DadaKopf

You can be a terminally boring man, but do totally rageworthy things.

Slobodan Milosevic: most boring man alive until he popped his clogs. What did he do? Ignite the Balkans in genocide.

Nikolai Ceaucescu: BBC reporter John Simpson called him the most boring figure he'd had the displeasure of seeing dead. What did he do? Rule over Romania with an iron fist, murdering hundreds of thousands, probably.

InFront

I tend to agree. I largely find McDowell uninteresting, boring and dry. Sometimes his outbursts capture media attention, sometimes he is foolish in what he says, and while that earns him a certain notoriety, what we ultimately have in McDowell is just some stuffy, drudging, tediously mumbling politician for most of the year. I would suggest that the popular media version of McDowell is largely exaggerated.

I think the reputation that he is given as "vibrant"(?) is largely undeserved , and simply refelcts the general spiritless nature of Irish Politics for four and a half of the five years in an election run.

DadaKopf

Someone whose chat-up line to the woman he was to marry was to pour a bottle of beer over her head at a party to get her to shut up doesn't get my vote.

ballooba

DadaKopf wrote:

Someone whose chat-up line to the woman he was to marry was to pour a bottle of beer over her head at a party to get her to shut up doesn't get my vote.

LOL

Never heard that chestnut before... continue.

The_Minister

DadaKopf wrote:

Someone whose chat-up line to the woman he was to marry was to pour a bottle of beer over her head at a party to get her to shut up doesn't get my vote.

Can you prove that story?

InFront

Does he have to? It's not really an argument for or against a person's political capabilities or political affability. It's irrelevant. I'm sure if there were photos we'd have seen them by now.

The_Minister

InFront wrote:

Does he have to?.

It makes him sound like a brute.

InFront

I would say ignoring the cause of 41 asylum seekers feared such terror in returning to Afghanistan that they went on hunger strike, and doing so against the behest of many nationals and non nationals in this country last year made him seem like a brute.

Somebody recounting a story of McDowell pouring a beer over his future wife makes McDowell sound like a drunk guy at a party.

brianthebard

InFront wrote:

I tend to agree. I largely find McDowell uninteresting, boring and dry. Sometimes his outbursts capture media attention, sometimes he is foolish in what he says, and while that earns him a certain notoriety, what we ultimately have in McDowell is just some stuffy, drudging, tediously mumbling politician for most of the year. I would suggest that the popular media version of McDowell is largely exaggerated.

I think the reputation that he is given as "vibrant"(?) is largely undeserved , and simply refelcts the general spiritless nature of Irish Politics for four and a half of the five years in an election run.

I concur, just cause he comes out with some awful ****e every now and again doesn't make him interesting.

DadaKopf

The_Minister wrote:

Can you prove that story?

Yes. Interview with Mickey McDowell, 'Tubridy Tonight', some time, 2006.

InFront wrote:

It's not really an argument for or against a person's political capabilities or political affability. It's irrelevant. I'm sure if there were photos we'd have seen them by now.

I agree, but,

The_Minister wrote:

It makes him sound like a brute.

InFront wrote:

I would say ignoring the cause of 41 asylum seekers feared such terror in returning to Afghanistan that they went on hunger strike, and doing so against the behest of many nationals and non nationals in this country last year made him seem like a brute.

This is much more important. But stringing both together, he's totally unsound and I disagree with his politics, which doesn't endear him to me twice over.

DadaKopf

DadaKopf wrote:

Someone whose chat-up line to the woman he was to marry was to pour a bottle of beer over her head at a party to get her to shut up doesn't get my vote.

That doesn't sound pleasant. Then again, when you think about it, Enda Kenny likes to tell racist jokes at parties, and we all know about the issues between Mr. and Mrs. Emmett Stagg etc. etc. Heck, when you focus on the negative and personal to determine someone's political ability it really does open a can of worms, doesn't it?

DadaKopf

I didn't think we were discussing his political ability so much as his personality.

DadaKopf

DadaKopf wrote:

I didn't think we were discussing his political ability so much as his personality.

True. Point taken. Though when one thinks about it, the question as to who is exciting or boring in politics really amounts to nothing. Someone might think Charles Haughey was flamboyant and exciting, someone might think that TK Whitaker was just a boring economist, but I think one of them left an altogether better legacy. McDowell can of course be judged on his record, and I suspect there is plenty enough ammo there for any detractor. Whether he is boring to some panel surely is of limited interest.

The_Minister

InFront wrote:

I would say ignoring the cause of 41 asylum seekers feared such terror in returning to Afghanistan that they went on hunger strike, and doing so against the behest of many nationals and non nationals in this country last year made him seem like a brute .

You mean when he stood up to the emotional blackmail, of people who hadn't even been rejected by the system, when they threw a hissy fit?

DadaKopf

Deleted User wrote:

True. Point taken. Though when one thinks about it, the question as to who is exciting or boring in politics really amounts to nothing. Someone might think Charles Haughey was flamboyant and exciting, someone might think that TK Whitaker was just a boring economist, but I think one of them left an altogether better legacy. McDowell can of course be judged on his record, and I suspect there is plenty enough ammo there for any detractor. Whether he is boring to some panel surely is of limited interest.

Well, there is an important overlap. People often vote for politicians on the basis of their personality rather than ability, although the former will usually be affected by the latter over time. This is Bertie's appeal. He's very charismatic (to some), as is GW Bush.

I don't think this is the way things should be done, but we're all human.

InFront

The_Minister wrote:

You mean when he stood up to the emotional blackmail, of people who hadn't even been rejected by the system, when they threw a hissy fit?

Well whether it was a hissy fit or not has been debated to death already. And you are incorrect in saying that all of those guys had not had their asylum pleas refused. The people who had not been denied were merely protesting on behalf of those who had been told to go away from Ireland, a sign of how deeply the injustice was felt amongst the largely Afghani community.

Personally I think that McDowell and his fellow human rights hardliners denying that the asylum case of (for example) a guy who's been blinded by Afghan warlords, and demanding that he is wrong and that Afghanistan is now safe for him to return to is hardly heroic behaviour, or even behaviour that can reasonably be described as 'fairminded'. Yet, legal, so perhaps the 'hissyfit' label you attach to this man's case is deserved, I don't think everyone would agree with you.

The same people who acted sympathetically towards the PIRA hungerstrikers, and back then, said that if they died it was Thatcher's/ the British government's "responsibility", sat side by side with McDowell, and stared back emptily at opposition speakers who pointed out this disparity. They, with McDowell at the helm, acted with hostility and with coldhearted dismissiveness towards asylum seakers with genuine cases of political oppression. Asylum seekers who were willing to kill themselves rather than return to a state of civil strife and human rights abuses. Men who had fallen victim to a nationality and republicanism of their own, from which they had to flee, and yet whose case was met with in empty uncare, and even aggression, by a worrying number of irish people and disappointingly, the Irish government, Rialtas na hEirinn itself. The irony should not be forgotten, nor should the name of the guy who was responsible for it.

That was certainly not a "boring" episode of McDowell's tenure in authority, but neither was it a very proud nor a positive one. This just highlights that, even on the (rare) occasion where Michael McDowell is being decisive and is winning considerable public attention and being generally "unboring", it tends merely to be an act of ferocity and ignorance that is winning him this reputation, much the same as a Rottweiler could not be described as "boring".

So, my opinion is that - overall - Mcdowell's reputation as the Rottweiler of the Dail is undeserved. This is just something that comes in occasional angry spurts, like the asylum protests. For the rest of the time, when something does not take his fancy, he is utterly dormant.