Will negative campaigning work here?

mickoneill30

I heard on Newstalk today how FF & FG are hiring people from America that were involved in the campaigns over there and I've seen the new ad that FG have up about crime.

What do you think? Does it work? For me it really turns me off and makes me look further at their claims. For example, I know the oppositions job is to oppose but I really get fed up constantly hearing opposition TDs on the radio giving out about everything the government does. A lot (not all) of the time it's not thought out properly before they go to the media. Examples of this I've heard over the last couple of months are "how about we put secure bins for guns in churches and night clubs" or "how about we send our thugs off to the army" or "drink driving is bad but people in the country should be able to decide what's acceptable". These all came from TDs.

I heard Enda Kenny on the radio a few weeks ago though and my estimation of him went up when I heard him saying that something the government had done was good. It was refreshing.

I know people love a whinge but would negative campaigning work here?

El Stuntman

mickoneill30 wrote:

I know people love a whinge but would negative campaigning work here?

I'm sure it would, we are culturally American after all

(ducks)

mickoneill30

Or a big chunk of them are culturally Irish????

El Stuntman

mickoneill30 wrote:

Or a big chunk of them are culturally Irish????

and there's a lot of big chunks in America....

Time Magazine

mickoneill30 wrote:

"drink driving is bad but people in the country should be able to decide what's acceptable". These all came from TDs.

I agree with your sentiment that negative campaigning is, well, negative. However I have to take you up on this point.

A Fine Gael County Councillor, Michael Fitzgerald, commented recently that he saw nothing wrong with downing four pints and getting behind a wheel. The party whip was removed from him almost immediately.

On the other hand Fianna Fáil members who drunkenly drive down the Naas Road the wrong way seem to have nothing to worry about, even after criminal conviction. Furthermore a FF TD recently suggested that discretion be given in drink driving cases to poor old lonely country drivers (I can't find the link at the moment). Nothing happened.

Sad Professor

The opposition really has nothing to offer so a negative campaign is really their only hope for getting in. I hate to say it but the election is Bertie & co's to loose IMO.

mike65

Having heard audio from US mid-term election ad spots this morning I can only vomit at the thought of that class of behaviour catching on here.

Tbh I don't think anyone here has the heart for that kind of nonsense.

Mike.

Trode

mickoneill30 wrote:

I heard on Newstalk today how FF & FG are hiring people from America that were involved in the campaigns over there and I've seen the new ad that FG have up about crime.

What do you think? Does it work? For me it really turns me off and makes me look further at their claims. For example, I know the oppositions job is to oppose but I really get fed up constantly hearing opposition TDs on the radio giving out about everything the government does. A lot (not all) of the time it's not thought out properly before they go to the media. Examples of this I've heard over the last couple of months are "how about we put secure bins for guns in churches and night clubs" or "how about we send our thugs off to the army" or "drink driving is bad but people in the country should be able to decide what's acceptable". These all came from TDs.

I heard Enda Kenny on the radio a few weeks ago though and my estimation of him went up when I heard him saying that something the government had done was good. It was refreshing.

I know people love a whinge but would negative campaigning work here?

Maybe I'm being a bit optimistic, but I really don't think it would work here, and may even backfire. True, we all like to moan about the government, but the most common complaint I've heard from people about the opposition in this country is that all they do is whinge and point out what's wrong with the government without putting forward realistic plans to fix things*. Even the reactions to Berties pseudo-scandal last year wasn't righteous indignation, but pity for someone many people felt was getting piled on for political point-scoring. Every time the opposition try to get personal, and attack the person rather than the policy or the results, noone bites.
Also, having seen some American-style negative ads during their recent elections, I really don't think the majority of people will be anything but surprised and appalled at the level brashness,crudity and venom being employed all of a sudden. We don't take politics, or politicians, seriously enough to buy into something that paints them as a cross between Ebenezer Scrooge and the Marquis De Sade.



*Yes I know, cue everyone with links to their favourite parties site jumping up and down shouting "LOOK POLICIES!". I'm saying that's the perception I've encountered, not necesairly the reality

Fratton Fred

I don't think there will be a billboard big enough when they get on to Bertie:rolleyes:

ballooba

I think the negative campaigning is a challenge to the FF/PD mantra of spouting statistics on what they have done right.

If FF/PD want to use this as a tactic for avoiding questions then I think a negative campaign is fair enough.

After ten years in government you would have expected them to have achieved something, this is highlighting what they haven't achieved.

Dirk Gently

I think a lot has to do with the fact that there isn't really an alternative to the way things are run at the moment. It is depressing and i feel people generally don't like when it happens but unless the opposition come up with something radically different to what the government are already doing all they have left is mud slinging and high lighting government weak spots rather than promoting their own agenda. For this reason I believe FF will come out comfortably on top after the next election. People realise the opposition are just full of hot air. I would hope it doesn't get to such a bad level as in American elections where character assignation is what wins elections and not policy.

It seems to be a case of, “don’t vote for them because they’re really bad” rather than “vote for us because we will do things differently”.

Anyone else think Bertie looks a bit French

ninty9er

Ibid wrote:

On the other hand Fianna Fáil members who drunkenly drive down the Naas Road the wrong way seem to have nothing to worry about, even after criminal conviction. Furthermore a FF TD recently suggested that discretion be given in drink driving cases to poor old lonely country drivers (I can't find the link at the moment). Nothing happened.

I agree with the sentiment expressed and Jim McDaid should certainly have been at least been immediately removed from the cabinet, but then again if hindsight was foresight:rolleyes:

I think the reason you can't find the Quote is because you had FF in the search criteria. It was Michael Healy-Rae an independent councillor with a high profile independent TD father who rolled that one out on the Late Late and Q&A.

I am completely against drink driving and have decided to give up drink this year to save on taxis (and hangovers). Cumann de Barra Ógra Fianna Fáil (NUIG) recently ran a road safety awareness campaign for young and old on campus at NUIG and got the backing of FF headquarters for putting the message out there that if you drink at all don't drive. Also included were tyre thread depth guidelines and driver education issues.

While I'm not saying YFG don't have the same sentiments, they haven't done anything proactive about it recently in the face of rising road deaths.

Nuttzz

works great on boards.ie cant see why it wont work in the real world..

mike65

clown bag wrote:

Anyone else think Bertie looks a bit French

French

Mike.

is_that_so

"They're all a shower of tossers anyway" - not an uncommon "Whineline" comment nor in the real world. Negative ads can get people talking but ultimately it fails. The Week In Politics programme a few weeks back brought that clearly to the fore. They mentioned the negativity of John Kerry's campaign. Anyway what could they be negative about that "Whineline" doesn't already cover?
We all want "tossers" we can be satisfied with.
I suspect it will be won and lost on what we think they will do not on who's a bad boy or girl.

Time Magazine

ninty9er wrote:

I agree with the sentiment expressed and Jim McDaid should certainly have been at least been immediately removed from the cabinet, but then again if hindsight was foresight:rolleyes:

Yes, he got a right damning from An Taoiseach :rolleyes:.

I think the reason you can't find the Quote is because you had FF in the search criteria. It was Michael Healy-Rae an independent councillor with a high profile independent TD father who rolled that one out on the Late Late and Q&A.

Nope, I'm not referring to Healy-Rae. I'm nearly sure of another incidence.

I am completely against drink driving and have decided to give up drink this year to save on taxis (and hangovers). Cumann de Barra Ógra Fianna Fáil (NUIG) recently ran a road safety awareness campaign for young and old on campus at NUIG and got the backing of FF headquarters for putting the message out there that if you drink at all don't drive. Also included were tyre thread depth guidelines and driver education issues.

While I'm not saying YFG don't have the same sentiments, they haven't done anything proactive about it recently in the face of rising road deaths.

And here we got with the negative campaigning .

Incidentally YFG's biggest campaign over the past couple of years has been on a bigger killer than drink driving - suicide.

And Trinity Young Fine Gael have successfully proposed a "Drivers' Ed" program for secondary schools, which has been implemented as part of the senior party's Transport policy.

Time Magazine

ninty9er wrote:

I think the reason you can't find the Quote is because you had FF in the search criteria.

Any chance yourself, and the Mayor of County Clare, wish to withdraw that statement?

Fianna Fáíl Councillor wants 'special understanding' for rural drink-drivers.

ballooba

ninty9er wrote:

I am completely against drink driving and have decided to give up drink this year to save on taxis (and hangovers). Cumann de Barra Ógra Fianna Fáil (NUIG) recently ran a road safety awareness campaign for young and old on campus at NUIG and got the backing of FF headquarters for putting the message out there that if you drink at all don't drive. Also included were tyre thread depth guidelines and driver education issues.

Actions speak louder than words. It's pretty hypocritical of FF to run such a campaign given the way GV Wright and Jim McDaid were dealt with.

Judt

The thing about negative campaigns is that in an "Us or them" world it does work. Doing a simple evil versus good analogy is a lot more effective than trying to explain a policy - the public doesn't have the attention span, and so instead we get bite-sized "They're fooking evil, dood!" ads on telly.

Macy

Didn't the PD's start the negative campaigning here at the last elections, against FF no less? All the slump coalition stuff was really positive by McDowell too, and the attacks on Rabitte by Ahern et al.

tbh I take the whole cufuffle against the supposed negative campaigning by FG as more Government spin. I don't see what's wrong with pointing out Government failures and broken promises after nearly 10 years in power - certainly enough to be a bloody long campaign anyway!

Personal attacks on non political area's of politicians life is negative campaigning (e.g. O'Dea attacking Rabitte on what school his daughter goes to, or McDowells attacks on Gormley's type of people, or McDowell calling people nazi's) not attacking Ministers on their performance in office.

ballooba

Macy wrote:

Didn't the PD's start the negative campaigning here at the last elections, against FF no less? All the slump coalition stuff was really positive by McDowell too, and the attacks on Rabitte by Ahern et al.

Macy wrote:

Personal attacks on non political area's of politicians life is negative campaigning (e.g. O'Dea attacking Rabitte on what school his daughter goes to, or McDowells attacks on Gormley's type of people, or McDowell calling people nazi's) not attacking Ministers on their performance in office.

Two good points.

Macy

Macy wrote:

Personal attacks on non political area's of politicians life is negative campaigning...not attacking Ministers on their performance in office.

You mean like attacking Bertie on how he funded his family law case, rather then purely on his record as Minister for Finance?

Terrible alright. At least the good people of this country saw through it...:p

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

You mean like attacking Bertie on how he funded his family law case, rather then purely on his record as Minister for Finance?

Terrible alright. At least the good people of this country saw through it...:p

That's how the country saw it because that's the spin that Fianna Fail put on it.

It was Bertie Ahern that made that incident about his divorce not the opposition, the real issue was that he was compromised by taking money off people.

Macy

Deleted User wrote:

You mean like attacking Bertie on how he funded his family law case, rather then purely on his record as Minister for Finance?

Are you trying to suggest that taking payments while Minister for Finance isn't political? I suppose not for the party of Dev and Haughey. It was Bertie that hid behind Miriam and the kids. The opposition never made an issue of the fact that he is trying to use the courts to block the Tribunal looking further into that period. He must have fairly big skeletons in that closet, but they'd obviously rather not give him the opportunity to bring his family into the political domain again.