Camera Recommendatation (<€1000)

Spunog UIE

Okay I'm back again, that person who knows very little about cameras

Ye's helped me out a good bit in the past and I'm now here asking what digital cameras I should be looking/reading about for under €1000 (inc lens). Ideally around the 700-800euro mark.

Its intended for my father who's set on getting a top quality camera. He would be a beginner and is mostly interested in taking landscape pictures. He also wants it to have a good lens and excellent zoom possibilities. Something that he can learn with, try different settings and so on. Again I'm not sure if I'm stating the obvious but the ability to get a few different lens for experimentation is important.

I am also interested in good shops that this can be purchased in or around Kildare, as I do not want to be a go between if anything bad ever happens with it (willing to travel to Dublin if nothing here).

Having said all that I will be comparing the prices online and consider purchasing it from there if there really is a massive saving.

Thanks for any suggestions.

punchdrunk

i'd say nikon D70,still a superb camera! pick that up body only for around 650 and then get a sigma 18-200 which should cover most of his needs,that'd be about a grand for both

Morlar

Somone told me that you need to buy special software from nikon if you want to open your nikon format raw files in photoshop does anyone know if thats correct ?

mloc

Morlar wrote:

Somone told me that you need to buy special software from nikon if you want to open your nikon format raw files in photoshop does anyone know if thats correct ?

Nope, Adobe Camera RAW which comes with Photoshop 7, CS and CS2 will cope fine!

Morlar

Yep I use ACR too - I think it may be out of date info. I just googled on this and I think this is what he was refferring to http://www.photoshopnews.com/?p=226

bp_me

The newest ACR opens NEFs without difficulty. It can be downoaded for free from the adobe website.

Calina

You should be able to get a Canon 350D for under a grand at this stage too I think, and possibly with the kit 18-55mm lens and a 200mm zoom.

m_stan

ever so slightly over your budget, but worth looking at. You could get the Canon 400d with 18-55 kit lense from Komplett for 800 lids and a Canon 75-300 for 250 which would be 1060 in total, inc shipping.

kmick

I would also recommend the Canon 350d/400d. You can pick up the 350d a bit cheaper than the 400d and it is superb. Dont bother with the kit lens and cheap zooms though. Buy a 50mm 1.8 for a start. You are not going to get a decent zoom cheaply (trust me on this one). Check out the best and cheapest website in the world (imho) B&H Photo and if you know anyone in NY get them to get the kit for you. Zooms wise the two I like are the Canon 70-200L and the Canon 100-400L neither of which are within your budget. A lot of people buy the 70-200L as it is a professional standard at this stage.

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=320310 350D ~EUR600 with free bag
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=321687 50mm ~EUR100
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=309464 70-200mm ~749
Total 1449 for some serious kit

Alternative cheaper zoom is
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=321652
I had it and it is dire with a tripod and plenty of light.

blorg

Note that that Komplett price on the 350D is a this week only offer, although as it is the discontinued model I would expect to find it widely discounted.

Bear in mind that good telephoto zooms are expensive and if as you say he is mostly interested in taking photos of "landscapes" then he may not really need one. IF that is what he needs the money would be better spent on a wide-angle lens. A prime as suggested by kmick is a good idea as it's a lot easier to get high quality at a low price than in a zoom. Also do remember the 1.6x cropping factor on a 350/400D which further exaggerates the effective length of a lens you stick on it.

To be honest I would think an L lens for a complete beginner is overkill and something like the 350/400D (or similar SLR) with the kit lens might be a good idea for him to start off with and then he can add lenses as he learns and gets an idea for what he might need? Bear in mind that I am a complete beginner myself so take this advice in this context.

I would expect that you will find online to be _considerably_ cheaper than Kildare. Beyond Komplett I would consider German retailers in particular who tend to be the cheapest in Europe. 16% VAT is a nice bonus. Pixmania is always worth checking although not always great for higher end cameras. IF you were to find yourself in New York that would be even better, the savings would likely pay for an Aer Lingus special offer flight return (got my 350D from Adorama.)

Calina

High end lenses are not cheap, that's true but by the same token, the chances are if you or your dad are starting off here, you'll really not want to be spending a couple of thousand euro on the lens at this point.

Speaking from my own experience I would say get a 350D or a a 400D - I don't have the 400D myself but I love my 350D - and take the kit lens. You're not going to take Ansel Adams-esque photos straight off with any camera, and you'll want to play around with the settings, see what the camera can do, venture away from fully automatic and basic modes and all that.

Most retailers in Ireland will sell the 350D or 400D with a very basic 18-55mm lens. It's not earth shattering as lenses go but it is more than adequate for starting off. Go with it.

If your dad wants bigger reach within a short space of time, I would recommend the Sigma 70-300mm DG APO which can be got new for 200E odd in most camera shops in the Dublin area. For the money it costs it is a very nice lens and I have taken some outstanding photographs with mine. It is not, however, ideal for landscape shots (doesn't stop me using it on occasion for them, but still) and he might want something a bit wider. If you wind up with a kit deal including a 200mm zoom, then fair enough. It will almost certainly not be the most expensive zoom lens in the world, but it is something to start with.

The point is, when you are starting, there is absolutely no point in spending thousands on top of the range Canon lenses (or probably Nikon as well). Someone somewhere made the point that most people, starting off are not at the stage where they will see the difference between a lens costing 300 dollars and one costing 3000.

The beauty about an SLR is you can chop and change the lenses as you require and as you develop - so if you're working on a budget at the moment - which most people starting off are - take the kit and learn with it.

No one has had the guts to say this, I see, but once you start buying presents for the camera it gets very hard to stop.

RichyX

The Pentax K100D looks to be a lovely camera.
You can get it with its very good 18-55mm kit lens for just over 600€ exc. shipping @ pixmania.com

Image stabilization built in and the capability to use the huge number of Pentax lenses already available makes it a winner.
Thinking of getting one myself in the next few days.

bp_me

The pentax cameras have a good feature set, but they are let down by a poor lineup of pentax lenses available new. Leaving aside the obvious off-brand options and second hand lenses.

RichyX

bp_me wrote:

The pentax cameras have a good feature set, but they are let down by a poor lineup of pentax lenses available new. Leaving aside the obvious off-brand options and second hand lenses.

The current range of lenses seem suitable for a user like esSpoono's dad who is a beginner. The 18-55 and 55-200 are both highly regarded lenses for the budget conscious among us.

Is the quality of the lens lineup let down by the more expensive lenses or what?
Pentax appear to produce a good range from what I've seen.

TJM

One more vote for the K100D. It's a superb camera (with a respectable kit lens) and a steal at the Pixmania price. I compared it head to head with the 400D over Christmas and apart from continuous shooting / sports photography (where the 400D wins hands down) the K100D and 400D were more or less on a par, with the in body image stabilisation giving the K100D the edge IMHO. The greater availability of Canon lenses and accessories is less of an issue these days - if you're buying online, you shouldn't have any difficulty finding what you need in a Pentax format.

gandalf

kmick wrote:

I would also recommend the Canon 350d/400d. You can pick up the 350d a bit cheaper than the 400d and it is superb. Dont bother with the kit lens and cheap zooms though. Buy a 50mm 1.8 for a start. You are not going to get a decent zoom cheaply (trust me on this one). Check out the best and cheapest website in the world (imho) B&H Photo and if you know anyone in NY get them to get the kit for you. Zooms wise the two I like are the Canon 70-200L and the Canon 100-400L neither of which are within your budget. A lot of people buy the 70-200L as it is a professional standard at this stage.

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=320310 350D ~EUR600 with free bag
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=321687 50mm ~EUR100
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=309464 70-200mm ~749
Total 1449 for some serious kit

Alternative cheaper zoom is
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=321652
I had it and it is dire with a tripod and plenty of light.

Right I had been holding out to buy a 400D but that price for the 350D is tempting me.

Will I be throwing away alot going for the older model as a starter Digital SLR or should I wait and stump up more cash for the 400D (Will I as a beginner even notice the difference considering I am using a Fuji S3500 4MP at the moment).

On a related question I have a Canon EOS 500N with a 28-80mm Lens. Will this lens work on the 350/400D models?

m_stan

If the price of the 350 is looking very tempting to you compared to the 400, I'd go with the 350. Even as a 400 owner, I'm happy to admit there isn't a huge amount of difference in the features or functions of the two to warrant a big price difference. The 350 is still a great piece of kit for its price.

I'll leave the lense question to someone with more knowledge on that front than me.

blorg

I have a 350D and am very happy with it, quite a significant improvement from the 300D while according to most reviews I have read the 400D is less of a significant upgrade. The main feature on the 400D that I would like is the anti-dust system. I have dust on my sensor (there from purchase) and will have to look at ways of getting rid of this (compressed air I believe.)

Your 28-80mm lens will work fine on the digital cameras, you just need to remember that there is a 1.6x cropping factor so the effective length is extended.

bp_me

RichyX wrote:

The current range of lenses seem suitable for a user like esSpoono's dad who is a beginner. The 18-55 and 55-200 are both highly regarded lenses for the budget conscious among us.

Is the quality of the lens lineup let down by the more expensive lenses or what?
Pentax appear to produce a good range from what I've seen.

More in terms of quantity than quality. Most of the range appears to be primes with one or two zooms. The zooms are also slower for the most part than their canon/nikon competitors.

I am looking at buying my first D-SLR, and the lack of pentax lenses is what put me off the brand to be honest.

magicbastarder

there's probably none left, but dixons in the jervis centre had the olympus E500 with a 14-42mm (28-84mm equiv. for 35mm) for €650 before christmas - they've been replaced with the E400, hence the price.

eas

this board is so Canon biased it's not funny (it is kinda funny).

The camera your looking for is a Nikon D40 - I promise!

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/

skip directly to the conclusion ("Highly Recomended" BTW)

"In everyday use the D40 is just what it set out to be, a very capable, compact, lightweight and easy to use camera which makes a perfect first step for anyone wanting to get into digital SLR photography. It provides enough control and a large enough range of manual settings to enable you to experiment and learn but also helps you to take great pictures in the process. It's one of those cameras you can just pick up and start shooting without fuss, that you can hand to a friend who's never used an SLR and know they'll be able to do the same. All of this and a pretty decent kit lens for $600, I'd say it's a bit of a bargain."

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/page25.asp

bp_me

Or pickup a d50 while you still can. Superior in many respects.

http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=321141 (thats a 2 lens bundle. komplett dont have the one lens bundle anymore it seems)

eas

agree - d50, even better*.

*flippant promise retracted from last thread and attached to this thread.

kmick

Ok so some people like Canon some like Nikon etc. I bought into the Canon range so thats all i can recomend. To be honest im sure the Nikon is just as good. However one word of advice. Do not buy any of the kit lenses. They are all crap. Buy one decent prime either a 50mm or 35mm and one decent zoom as recommended in my last post. If you cant afford the zoom right now, zoom with your feet as the man said. If you spend 200 euros on the the kit lenses you have wasted 200 euro. You will find pictures they take are little better than a point and shoot. To get really clear vibrant pictures you need a good lens. Within six months you will be looking to buy better lenses. So buy the 50mm 1.8 now for 100 put 100 in a jar and add 100 quid to it every month. Within 6 months you will be able to get 70-200mm L lens. You will then own two lenses you will NEVER want to give away. In the meantime you will not spend hours on buy and sell with the 18-55 and the 75-300 trying to haggle to get 50 quid for each of them. Up to you. If you like buy the kit lenses and find this all out for yourself.

gandalf

kmick took your advice and ordered the 50mm 1.8 with the 350D. As I said before I have a 28-80mm lense with a EOS 500N that I own so I will use that for the moment. Once I get used to the camera and an idea of what lenses do what I will look into getting a decent zoom lense.

Thanks for the advice. Now lets hope Komplett get this parcel of joy out to me quickly !!!!

magicbastarder

i use primes whenever possible, but to suggest that kit lenses are that bad is nonsense.
yes, you've a far better aperture range on primes, but if you're really suggesting that a photo taken at f8 on a kit zoom at 50mm is that inferior to a photo taken on a prime 50mm at f8, you should clean the vaseline off your kit lens.

eas

magicbastarder wrote:

to suggest that kit lenses are that bad is nonsense.

I agree. I think it takes a pretty experienced photographer to recognize the difference between a photo taken with a €1000 lens or a €200 lens. Of course there are many experienced and serious photographers on this board who could tell the difference, but I'd bet not everyone could get it right every time, I doubt I could.

Ok so some people like Canon some like Nikon etc. I bought into the Canon range so that's all I can recommend.

Nikon have very well respected line up of kit lenses btw - the 18-70mm, the 18-55mm and the 18-135mm all get good reviews. So don't use your bad experiences with canon kit lenses to group them together.

Fionn

so thats what was wrong with my kit lens!!

i knew i shoulda thrown it in with the dishes - fairy liquid would have done the job

my lens had a soft strip down the left of all my pics, i've no other experience of kit lens but i suppose you can get good ones too, i guess you get what you pay for most times. Theres no comparison between the quality of the photographs that i've taken with the kit lens I had and the 50mm f/1.8 that i currently use.
I'm a Canon owner btw. The reason i went with Canon was the EOS 350D being as far as i could tell at the time was the best bang for buck.
However maybe it's a case of the cheap(ish) razor and the very expensive blades!!!
I sure don't like being locked into one system, but I guess we're stuck with it eh?
It'd be great if someone marketed a device to enable you to fully use the different brand lens on any camera body. Is that possible?

magicbastarder

Fionn wrote:

my lens had a soft strip down the left of all my pics, i've no other experience of kit lens but i suppose you can get good ones too, i guess you get what you pay for most times.

sounds like a faulty lens.

kmick

I would humbly suggest the you would see a difference in quality between the kit lens at 50mm@f8 and the prime 50mm@f8. The colours are better, the picture is sharper and it is more alive. I have never done the comparison in real life but I was consistently disapointed with my 28-80 kit lens at 50mm. I am rarely disapointed with my 50mm 1.4.

Fionn

dunno it was my first lens - i had nothing else to compare it to, although having started to look on flickr and other places i suppose i became a bit of a pixel peeper regarding sharpness etc. i guess thats what happens when you get in to this

magicbastarder

kmick wrote:

I would humbly suggest the you would see a difference in quality between the kit lens at 50mm@f8 and the prime 50mm@f8. The colours are better, the picture is sharper and it is more alive. I have never done the comparison in real life but I was consistently disapointed with my 28-80 kit lens at 50mm. I am rarely disapointed with my 50mm 1.4.

i'm not arguing that you'll get better results - what i'm saying is that the kit lens isn't as inferior as you make out.
the main benefits of a fast prime are its light catching ability and DOF.

Zascar

I'd definitely go with the 400D ove rthe 350. Mainly for the bigger screen but there are some other reasons outlined here

This is the cheapest I have found the 400D - €728 - that gives you a few extra quid to play with for another lens. I've been asking similar questions on www.photographyireland.net and aprantly the Canon 50mm 1.8f if the one to go for next.
I'm also confised as to what other lens to go for, so much choice!
This page has a good breakdown of the options.

gandalf

Well my 350D arrived into the office today, I did pay extra for DHL delivery but it was nice to see something arrive the next day as promised. Looks good so far with the exception of manuals in French and Dutch and no free bag (although tbh I don't think I would be using a bag with Canon EOS on it around town!).

Will be playing around with it this weekend. Any recs on good third party manuals/guides?

kuroino

I've got 400d delivered from pixmania for 708 euro yesterday (ordered just after Chirstmas). Very nice camera in comparison to 300d. The only disadvantage is somehow worse grip and generally smaller size.

BTW, my old 300d died, does anybody know where can I inexpensively extimate repare costs in Dublin?

311

don't know if you live close to blanchardstown ,but theres a borders out there in the westend part . good selection of photo books at the back.
And a Starbucks upstairs

kuroino

i actually live in blanchardstown area, thanks

what is "westend part"?

311

Sorry the westend retail park ,beside halfords .
There are the bryan peterson books that rymus recommends ,they're great but mostly only available on the internet.