When is a service charge not a service charge?

Devon

Define "service charge" people.

Last night I learned that even though TGI Friday add a 5% service charge on to every bill (down the bottom), this does not go to your waiter/waitress, but goes straight into TGI's pocket.

Most people would assume that the person who looked after you for the night gets it.

So is it still fair to call it a service charge, even though it's blantly misleading?

Karoma

Moved from AH with redirect. Feel free to move it back.

lilrayosunshine

I never pay a service charge unless it says it on the menu (ie service charge applies for groups of 8 or more)
I either ask for it to be deducted or deduct it myself and hand the waiter/ress my tip (if I'm tipping)

I don't agree with restaurants assuming you want to pay this charge.

Vorsprung

WTF?!

That's a nice little scam they've got going on there. I'd ask to speak ot the manager if they tried that one on me, I wouldn't pay it if it's not going to the staff.

senordingdong

I only ever tip if the waiter or waitress deserves it but are you sure that it's just TGI who pocket it or do all places do this?

stepbar

I hate the idea of a service charge... it takes the piss. Assuming staff get minimum wage (I shouldnt assume because if they aren't the restaurant is breaking the law) for doing the job that they do, there should be no need for a service charge.

senordingdong

stepbar wrote:

I hate the idea of a service charge... it takes the piss. Assuming staff get minimum wage (I shouldnt assume because if they aren't the restaurant is breaking the law) for doing the job that they do, there should be no need for a service charge.

Maybe but the general idea is that if that staff member goes the extra mittle mile for you then maybe they deserve a little something extra.
I reckon the minimum wage is only for people who do minimum work.

stepbar

senordingdong wrote:

Maybe but the general idea is that if that staff member goes the extra mittle mile for you then maybe they deserve a little something extra.
I reckon the minimum wage is only for people who do minimum work.

That great but I go the extra mile for my customers every day... the bank still pays me the same wage, so really I dont buy that one. Its irrelivant if you're on minimum wage or not. If you are working in a restaurant you should be doing it anyway. Ditto with any service. Personally I dont give tips but that's my choosing, I have no prob with someone else doing it.

RuggieBear

i've asked about this too and seemingly the 5% service charge goes to the kitchen staff

cast_iron

stepbar wrote:

That great but I go the extra mile for my customers every day... the bank still pays me the same wage, so really I dont buy that one. Its irrelivant if you're on minimum wage or not. If you are working in a restaurant you should be doing it anyway. Ditto with any service.

There's a fundamental difference between your bank and a restaurant - one doesn't have to go back after bad service in an eatery, but you're alot more restricted with a bank. In the restaurant business, service is a huge issue...I go to the bank a cue for 40 mins, and they are all the same.

You obviously don't eat out too often. Go somewhere regular and tip well...they will look after you. I find it a bit odd you have manners at work, but not when paying the bill at a restaurant.

stepbar

cast_iron wrote:

There's a fundamental difference between your bank and a restaurant - one doesn't have to go back after bad service in an eatery, but you're alot more restricted with a bank. In the restaurant business, service is a huge issue...I go to the bank a cue for 40 mins, and they are all the same.

You obviously don't eat out too often. Go somewhere regular and tip well...they will look after you. I find it a bit odd you have manners at work, but not when paying the bill at a restaurant.

Hold on a minute, service is a big enough issue with the bank, there are a lot more complex service issues in a bank than a restaurant TBH. And there's enough competition out there for the established banks to be worried about too. As I have said I dont get paid for going the extra mile, so why should a waiter / waitress get extra for what they are PAID to do in the first place?

Guy:Incognito

stepbar wrote:

As I have said I dont get paid for going the extra mile, so why should a waiter / waitress get extra for what they are PAID to do in the first place?

They arent, they are getting paid to write down your order, get your drinks and bring you your food, not be your friend. Some can leave you till you empty your plate , arriv eover hand you your bill and take your money. The tip isfor the ones who do it in a particularly pleasent way, dont forget about you as soon as you have you food just because it may be busy. They make sure you have your drinks refilled, check everything is ok, if you jave kids they might bring out a toy or crayons for them. It's the little things.

Noelie

I don't agree with tipping in a restaurant any more, minimum wage has gotten so high there is no need to tip anymore. Tipping was only brought into this country from America where waiters used to get paid very low wages. This is not so in Ireland, the new minimum wage is going up to 8:30 an hour which every worker is entitled too. People in shops also provide an excellent service but are never tipped for going the extra mile so why should waiters be any different.

Red Alert

In fact a lot of people in shops are officially not allowed to receive tips from customers.

I disagree with tipping culture - that which says that practically everyone must get tipped. The idea like you see in america where if you don't tip there's intrinsically something wrong with you is crazy.

I will tip when i see something that is honestly above and beyone the call of duty - it need not be much, and very often i'd put friendly personal service in that bracket.

I had a haircut a while ago from a beautiful Estonian girl. She did her job incredibly quickly and with total detail and precision. This is also considering the fact that I never met anybody from estonia before and thought she was quite hot and therefore was probably distracting her far too much with questions and chat. She did all the little extras that many forget or do badly. Really good service, so she got a big tip.

Devon

RuggieBear wrote:

i've asked about this too and seemingly the 5% service charge goes to the kitchen staff

The kitchen staff don't know anything about this so I'm guessing it was a manager who told you?

Mr. Presentable

Red Alert wrote:

I had a haircut a while ago from a beautiful Estonian girl..... so she got a big tip.

That's my practise too

RuggieBear

Devon wrote:

The kitchen staff don't know anything about this so I'm guessing it was a manager who told you?

yep.:(

pred racer

Devon wrote:

Define "service charge" people.

Last night I learned that even though TGI Friday add a 5% service charge on to every bill (down the bottom), this does not go to your waiter/waitress, but goes straight into TGI's pocket.

Most people would assume that the person who looked after you for the night gets it.

So is it still fair to call it a service charge, even though it's blantly misleading?

No its not fair and shouldnt be paid....

But im Interested to know how you found this out, is it just hearsay or fact?

as for tipping I will shell out a bit extra if the person has worked to make my meal enjoyable, as in previous comments, it doesnt have to be much, a smile or a timely refill. sometimes just not bothering me with inane questions while im eating will be enough.;)

Devon

I'm sad to say it's fact.

There was a group of there and we just quipped with the guy that we'd make sure he gets more than 5% because he really went out of his way to see we had a great night. He was excellent and deserved more than 5%. That's when he told us it goes straight back to the company itself and not anywhere near them, kitchen staff, bouncer, cleaner or anyone else the management might say gets it. Something to do with them recovering the cost of the hike in the minimum wage a few years ago.

Damn - think if the kitchen staff did get 5% of every meal they served out!

stepbar

Stekelly wrote:

They arent, they are getting paid to write down your order, get your drinks and bring you your food, not be your friend. Some can leave you till you empty your plate , arriv eover hand you your bill and take your money. The tip isfor the ones who do it in a particularly pleasent way, dont forget about you as soon as you have you food just because it may be busy. They make sure you have your drinks refilled, check everything is ok, if you jave kids they might bring out a toy or crayons for them. It's the little things.

I would consider that to be part of the job, certainly not something that should be tipped for. What you would be advocating for is a two tier class of service, for those who tip and those who dont. I wouldnt agree with that at all, after all, thats what the staff are paid to do in the first place, They are paid to serve you food in a pleasent and courtous way, regardless of whether you leave a tip or dont. Staff who are professional about their job will go out of their way to serve regardless.

Attol

I worked in a shop and managed to keep a smile on my face while being on my feet all day being asked the same things over and over again, carrying heavy stock up and down stairs and listening to people shout at me when they didn't understand their consumer rights and I tried explaining to them, with the aid of those consumer rights cards that they were wrong in the most courteous friendly manner. I did that all for minimum wage. I think people in busy shops do a hell of a lot more than waiting staff tbh yet they don't get anything extra. I don't believe in tipping at all but for some reason my best friend and I usually tip when out for meals.

And how can restaurants charge a service charge on top of the food? Totally uncalled for. Do you ever see shops adding a few euros to the end of your total because you had a staff member explain to you the differences between products, they were nice to you and did their job to a high standard, then they rang up your shopping on the till? How is that going above your job description? If you aren't doing that then you should be fired.

senordingdong

stepbar wrote:

That great but I go the extra mile for my customers every day... the bank still pays me the same wage, so really I dont buy that one. Its irrelivant if you're on minimum wage or not.

It makes all the difference if they're on minimum wage.
I really doubht that you're job would be as demanding as that of a hardworking waitress in a busy resteraunt.
I doubht you'd go the extra mile if you were on eight euro an hour.

DeepBlue

Devon wrote:

So is it still fair to call it a service charge, even though it's blantly misleading?

No - it could only be called a scam if it's not going to staff.

lilrayosunshine wrote:

I either ask for it to be deducted or deduct it myself and hand the waiter/ress my tip (if I'm tipping).

That's interesting. At least then you know that the payment is going directly to those it's supposed to be going to rather than being pocketed by the owners.
Ever had any issues doing it this way? Can restaurants demand you pay the 15% or is it discretionary?

stepbar

senordingdong wrote:

It makes all the difference if they're on minimum wage.
I really doubht that you're job would be as demanding as that of a hardworking waitress in a busy resteraunt.
I doubht you'd go the extra mile if you were on eight euro an hour.

If you are talking about demanding in terms of intelligence then yes my job demands quite a bit of that. If youre talking about demanding in terms of physical effort then no however I dont like to be moaping round the place. However a waiter / waitress isnt in a position to be paid for a demanding job that would test their intelligence in fairness. And I suppose they arent in a position to be paid for a demanding job in terms of physicality because in fairness a blocklayer lifting blocks and laying morter would have a tougher job. In fairness would wouldnt have to put yourself out much to go the extra mile in a restaurant TBH.

NextSteps

Devon wrote:

I'm sad to say it's fact.

There was a group of there and we just quipped with the guy that we'd make sure he gets more than 5% because he really went out of his way to see we had a great night. He was excellent and deserved more than 5%. That's when he told us it goes straight back to the company itself and not anywhere near them, kitchen staff, bouncer, cleaner or anyone else the management might say gets it. Something to do with them recovering the cost of the hike in the minimum wage a few years ago.

Damn - think if the kitchen staff did get 5% of every meal they served out!

That's just shockin'. Presumably the waiting staff get less of a tip because people take it they get the 5% anyway.

fobs

Will never leave a tip in a restaurant that operates a fixed service charge and have on occasion asked for that charge to be removed if bad service was provided. will always give a larger tip if it is discretionary to do so and have received good service. Also will never pay the service charge with my credit card as perfer to leavce this in cash to make sure the staff receive it. Have no problem with communal tipping where they share the tips as the kitchen staff also contribute to the enjoyment of a good meal.

MOH

fobs wrote:

Will never leave a tip in a restaurant that operates a fixed service charge and have on occasion asked for that charge to be removed if bad service was provided. will always give a larger tip if it is discretionary to do so and have received good service. Also will never pay the service charge with my credit card as perfer to leavce this in cash to make sure the staff receive it. Have no problem with communal tipping where they share the tips as the kitchen staff also contribute to the enjoyment of a good meal.

Agree with that. There's been times where I've been in restaurants where I would have left a bigger tip if there hadn't been a fixed service charge. They bug me so much I've often stopped going to restaurants that introduced it.

Heard a rumour years ago that some places didn't pass on c/c tips to the staff, so usually tip in cash.

Red Alert

In theory there's actually a record of c/c tips because the machines are usually set up to do it. It's easier nowadays anyway as with Chip and Pin the machine usually asks you for tip amounts so you can do it discreetly if you wish.

bardcom

DeepBlue wrote:

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Can restaurants demand you pay the 15% or is it discretionary?

A service charge cannot be demanded if notice is not given in advance. (Many restaurants provide notice in their menu's where they may state that a service charge of X% will be added for groups of Y or more people.)

You can simply ask for the charge to be removed. No fuss.

Many restaurants factor the "tips" into what waiting staff are paid, and most waiting staff regard tips as part of their wages. I always tip around 10% for normal service - maybe a little more for excellent service... That said, when this tipping lark started, I fundamentally disagreed with the whole idea, and opposed it for years. Then I got to know a few ex-waiting persons :-) and they told me that tips were important to them and that they needed them to survive. Many are only working part time because they are students or whatever, so minimum wage doesn't mean a week of minimum wage - it might only be 20 hours a week a peak times in a restaurant! It's too late to start fighting the "tipping culture" - it's here and it's a fact of life! Don't be a stingy scrooge - leave a tip!

Nody

Tip in cash or you're tipping the company as a rule of thumb. Then again, you could do as my father did and type in his CC code in on the machine for the tip (that was over €5k in tip for a €40 meal ).

MrPudding

I used to work in a hotel in the north. All the tips went to the staff regardless of how they were paid. If it was added to a card the cash was simply taken from the till and put in the tip jar.

Paying my card does not automatically mean the staff don't get the money.

MrP

dr strangelove

In my experience:
I've managed two restaurants in Dublin (Thai Orchid in Westmoreland St, and Luigi Malones in Temple Bar) and in both cases the 'service charge' went to the staff.
In Thai Orchid, all the tips were put in a pot and shared equally between all staff (including kitchen staff)
In Luigi's the service charge went to the waiting staff and then the waiting staff gave the kitchen and bar staff 10% of their overall tips.
In both places the service charge was only levied on tables over 10 or so people, and it was discretionary. If anyone asked i would point out that they didn't have to pay it, but if they did, it stayed with the wait staff.

jimmycrackcorm

I have a friend who is a waiter and explained the logic of the service charge. First of all it is not the same as a tip otherwise it would be called as such. Instead the principle is that if you run a restaurant and get a few bookings for large groups such as 6 people or more, then you are likely to require extra staff over and above normal levels.

He gave me an example of a small restaurant where he works that had a party of 30 one day over christmas and they had to get three extra staff for the evening to help out.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I was in a restaurant only yesterday that had a service charge of 10% for parties of 4 or more! Is this normal? I've only ever seen a service charge for 6 or more. But 4?

ambrose :cool:

jimmycrackcorm

kingambrose wrote:

I was in a restaurant only yesterday that had a service charge of 10% for parties of 4 or more! Is this normal? I've only ever seen a service charge for 6 or more. But 4?

ambrose :cool:

You could have asked for two tables next to each other instead to make a point.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

You could have asked for two tables next to each other instead to make a point.

Yeah I thought of that but only afterwards.

bardcom

kingambrose wrote:

I was in a restaurant only yesterday that had a service charge of 10% for parties of 4 or more! Is this normal? I've only ever seen a service charge for 6 or more. But 4?

ambrose :cool:

Robbery....

Name and shame, that's what I'd do. Where was the restaurant?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

It was Cape Greko in Malahide.

skywalker

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

I have a friend who is a waiter and explained the logic of the service charge. First of all it is not the same as a tip otherwise it would be called as such. Instead the principle is that if you run a restaurant and get a few bookings for large groups such as 6 people or more, then you are likely to require extra staff over and above normal levels.

He gave me an example of a small restaurant where he works that had a party of 30 one day over christmas and they had to get three extra staff for the evening to help out.

I dont understand that logic at all. If there were no one in the restaurant then they wouldnt need any staff.

If a pub is busy on matchday they dont put up the price of a pint for the extra barmen, they pay them out of the money they make because they are more busy

gerryo

skywalker wrote:

If a pub is busy on matchday they dont put up the price of a pint for the extra barmen, they pay them out of the money they make because they are more busy

It's not unknown for Galway pubs to shove up the price of pints during race week (& not bother to change the legally-required-to-be-displayed price lists) even if there is no bar extension. :rolleyes:
They know they'll most likely get away with it, unless they're really unlucky to serve one of those consumer affairs inspectors.

po0k

pub != restaurant

RainyDay

gerryo wrote:

It's not unknown for Galway pubs to shove up the price of pints during race week (& not bother to change the legally-required-to-be-displayed price lists) even if there is no bar extension. :rolleyes:
They know they'll most likely get away with it, unless they're really unlucky to serve one of those consumer affairs inspectors.

They won't get away with it if individual consumers start keeping an eye on what happens and report them to the authorities if necessary. All it takes is a receipt plus a mobile phone snapshot of the price list, and the pub will be facing a fine and some bad publicity.