$20 Tribeca STT

dvdfan

How did i play this??

Holdem No Limit - $40 BB

Button ($1,920) [sidneygreen ]
SB ($2,060) [La Tormenta ]
BB ($2,000) [ES1319 ]
UTG ($3,820) [Hero]
UTG+1 ($1,960) [PULnTRIGER ]
UTG+2 ($1,740) [JungleCruzr ]
MP+1 ($2,040) [super-rono ]
MP+2 ($160) [dieguitoch ]
CO ($2,300) [turtlesoup ]

Hero is UTG with 9h, 9c
Preflop: (9 players, $60)
Hero calls 40 and raises 80, PULnTRIGER folds, JungleCruzr calls 120, super-rono calls 120, dieguitoch folds, turtlesoup calls 120, sidneygreen folds, La Tormenta calls 100, ES1319 folds

Flop: 8c, 2s, 4c (5 players, $640)
La Tormenta checks, Hero bets 500, JungleCruzr calls 500, super-rono calls 500 and raises 1,420 and is All-In, 2 folds, Hero calls 1,420, JungleCruzr calls 1,120 and is All-In

Turn: Ah ($6100)

River: Jh ($6100)

Results: Hero has 9h, 9c
JungleCruzr has 7c, Ac
super-rono has Th, Tc
JungleCruzr wins $5500 with Pair: Aces
super-rono wins $600 with Pair: 10s

cardshark202

After getting that many callers, I would almost always check that flop and fold to an serious action, maybe getting it all in against 1 player if he's an idiot.

ditpoker

i had a similir post on here about a hand with 99 in a $10 STT. Alot of what was said focussed on what my plan with 99 was for the hand. When you raise to 120 preflop, you are pretty certain you arent taking the pot down there and then at this blind level with that bet.

If you are going to make it 500 post flop if 3 under cards hit, why not bet more preflop?
With 99 at this level of an STT i'm limping for set value (and when you hit you get PAID!) or i'm betting stronger preflop. Say you make it 360 preflop in this example, you're probably only going to get action from TT, if he puts in a raise, say to 1000 (or maybe he might push) you can get away from your 99 pretty easily. Equally if you just limp and the board is JQ4, you can get away cheaply from any post flop action. You're 120 is doing nothing preflop.

As played fold to the two all ins after you, you'll be left with 1420, very playable stack at 20/40, and with 2 players pushing after your 500 raise you gotta feel your behind.

Sparky1808

Terrible bet preflop, it should be 4x (min.) in Tribeca's STTs, as 120 will get you in trouble with a wwwwide range of hands you could be facing. As mentioned a raise of 120? You might as well limp, if your going to raise it that lowly.

I guess it's not the worst bet in the world on the flop, personally I'd bet it 320 here as it hasn't been doctored, it's just been a straight forward (8x bet) and exactly half the pot here on the flop, and with that many callers behind you be prepared to lay it down to some serious action, and in the end you got serious action in which I would have laid it down and battled back hard with the 1,420 as it's not a major disadvantage with the blinds only being 20/40, you still have 35 BBs ...and plenty of time to make a comeback.

Only my tuppence worth...

P.S. Mind you, you were unfortunate to run into a sneaky 10-10 just flat calling the 120.

kpnuts

I usually limp medium PPs preflop in the early stages, certainly from EP, but now that you've raised it and got so many customers, this flop is just about as good as you could have hoped for. You've had an early double-up and your tournament life is not in danger, so I would now open jam the flop. You'll often get a customer with A8 sooted, 77, 66, 55 etc because when they see you jam the flop they usually assume you don't want a call and are therefore drawing with overcards and/or flush draw. If there is a set or bigger overpair out there, you've been unlucky but you're still in the game. If not, you've almost certainly won the tourney as long as your hand holds up.

Lafortezza

If you're going to raise UTG with 99 I'd raise it bigger than 3BB, probably 5.
Or else just limp to hit a set since the blinds are pretty low, but I prefer raising.

With that many callers preflop I'd go with cardshark's line on the flop.

Ollieboy

This is one of the most comman mistake players make with medium pp on the net, in a live game you would play this hand differently.

Firstly the raise is rubbish, your still allowing players to be price in, ie A7 calling, if you plan to raise with a muck hand like this in the early stages, raise 5 to 8 times the blind, it stinks of a medium pair, but at least after the flop you know where you are.

Also, why raise in the first place, your utg and if you get called preflop, you cant really bet this hand as you'll be facing overcards, or not sure if the caller is slow playing you, so 9/10 times you'll throw this hand away to a bet from position on the flop.

I would recommend playing this hand like the way KP mention, limp, hit a set and get a great dobule up, if someone raises behind you, you than have the option of a push which looks very strong or a call out of position and revalue on the flop.

Than the flop, nice flop but you still dont know where you are and the bet of 500 commits you to the hand on the flop, so I would check here and revalue depending on the player betting, ie position etc.

Than the final call, thats really bad. What can you be beaten here, you bet 500 one caller, who is defo going to call the allin also and than a allin push, which might be a overpair and a flush draw, you would need to be very lucky to win this hand after the river card.

Summary, limp preflop, bet the flop 1/2 the pot and fold to any heavy action like you got.

The only reason to play the hand the way you did, is if your in the rebuy period.

Really badly played mate.

cardshark202

Whats going on here? Preflop is ok, if table is playing very loose passive then raising more is better obv, but a 3xBB raise UTG is usually fine. Raising >>>> limping.

Rnger

cardshark202 wrote:

Whats going on here? Preflop is ok, if table is playing very loose passive then raising more is better obv, but a 3xBB raise UTG is usually fine. Raising >>>> limping.

At the first level, alot of players will call 120 with almost the same range as what they will call 40 with. Thus creating a bigger multiway pot which your oop with a mediocre hand

Dark Hair

dvdfan wrote:

How did i play this??

Holdem No Limit - $40 BB

Button ($1,920) [sidneygreen ]
SB ($2,060) [La Tormenta ]
BB ($2,000) [ES1319 ]
UTG ($3,820) [Hero]
UTG+1 ($1,960) [PULnTRIGER ]
UTG+2 ($1,740) [JungleCruzr ]
MP+1 ($2,040) [super-rono ]
MP+2 ($160) [dieguitoch ]
CO ($2,300) [turtlesoup ]

Hero is UTG with 9h, 9c
Preflop: (9 players, $60)
Hero calls 40 and raises 80, PULnTRIGER folds, JungleCruzr calls 120, super-rono calls 120, dieguitoch folds, turtlesoup calls 120, sidneygreen folds, La Tormenta calls 100, ES1319 folds

Flop: 8c, 2s, 4c (5 players, $640)
La Tormenta checks, Hero bets 500, JungleCruzr calls 500, super-rono calls 500 and raises 1,420 and is All-In, 2 folds, Hero calls 1,420, JungleCruzr calls 1,120 and is All-In

Turn: Ah ($6100)

River: Jh ($6100)

Results: Hero has 9h, 9c
JungleCruzr has 7c, Ac
super-rono has Th, Tc
JungleCruzr wins $5500 with Pair: Aces
super-rono wins $600 with Pair: 10s

Comments from a learner....

Check or call a mini raise. with 99 I'd have seen the flop with those raises/blinds. I'd have folded to a 250+ raise (with your stack)

If you do a monster raise... a lot will fold (If they all fold you get a tiny pot?!?!) If any one calls... Say 400/500? What you going to do with a high card flop? or their bigger pair?? Fold (which you should do given a A/K/Q flop with some ones raise)and flop = minus your monster raise chips. It is not about what you are doing... but what you will have to do next.

Any high card in the flop might give a higher pair if some one is playing Aq kq etc... and you are left hoping for.. a set? (Given alot at this stage will go on A5o etc. J10 and what not given the blinds)

Ok so you went 500 (but into a 640 pot?) after the flop (which was a good flop for you considering..no high cards...)... and rather than all folding...you got a call...then a raise all in? you should have folded (If there is bluffing going on..then they are welcome to the chips and the bluff is noted)...Any high card now might screw you... and with that raise/all in...

Fold... get it back later.

Low/Mid Pairs are the work of the Devil. Even 10's are a pain!

At that early stage they can cost you a lot of chips. Unless you know your table well (hard at an early stage) I think your mini raise was fine (but you should have checked to the flop/called a mini raise) then with that flop... raise... but fold a monster reraise. You would have more than enough left at those blinds to regain your chips.

Anyways.. I am just a learner/newbie and that's how I would and do play low/mid pairs. Mostly because I have got hammered with them like you just did.

Lessons learned. If you see some sceam at the table "Pairs are the work of the Devil" It's me

If I made some errors in the post (I tend to confuse myself with posts over 20 words) Getting ripped to shreds by the experts will make me cry

dvdfan

Thanks for the feedback.

i usually raise 3x blinds +1 per limper, i have lots of notes on people at the $20 level and i sometimes see a pattern that they raise alot more with pocket pairs especially the 88-JJ range. This gives me an edge over them and so i dont want people to easily spot when i have a mid pocket pair when i over-raise when i usually just raise 3x +1bb per limper with most of my hands like AA,KK,QQ,AK,AQ,99,TT etc. I think this gives me an advantage as anyone taking notes on me will find it very hard to put me on a hand. I guess limping in this case would probably have been fine and possibly a better move than 3x raise.

With the flop i had 2 things in mind, firstly i was hoping to hit trips and take a big pot, the majority of the time though im going to hit overcards and be check/folding to a strong bet which makes the limping preflop probably a better choice.

The only likely other outcome was having 3 undercards, and i taught this was a good flop for me other than the fact i got 4 callers. I wanted to bet 3/4 of the pot because there was a flush draw on board and while i was possibly ahead now, i didnt want to bet small and see an overcard on the turn betting OOP. I was hoping to take the pot here.

After i bet out and got 1 caller and 1 all in i agree i should have folded, the only 2 hands i was beating was Top pair and flush draw and High pair, set and 2 pair were a good possibility.

So in summary:

Preflop:
Better to limp because im check/folding to a heavy bet on the flop if there are overcards, the jury is still out on wheter the raise was terrible or just ok

Flop:
Check/Fold to a large bet because im OOP against 4 people or unless i have a good read and maybe bet out half the pot as another option.

Fold to the all in because i have 1 to act behind me that has already called my 3/4 pot raise and im most likely behind to at least 1 of the hands with the turn and river yet to come so even if im ahead now i probably wont be by the river

Ollieboy

dvdfan wrote:

Preflop:
Better to limp because im check/folding to a heavy bet on the flop if there are overcards, the jury is still out on wheter the raise was terrible or just ok

The preflop raise is poor, you can only achieve one of 2 things here, 1. steal the blinds which at 20/40 are not worth going after. 2. Build the pot, which is not required as if you hit with 99 your going to want to get paid the max by the remaining players, so raising preflop only as one advantage, building the pot, which if you miss, is dead money.

The problem with this hand is position, utg you should either limp or raise small as to stop someone else raising in late position, also, if someone had reraise you in mid to late position, the chances are that your behind and the money is still dead.

Also, your point about keeping your raising range the same is a terrible excuse and you should try to mix this up more, you dont want people putting you on hands by the amount you raise in different position, also other players didnt seem to be worried by coming over the top of you, so they never had you on AA etc here.

I think you've learnt a lot about your game in this post, so fair play. 99 utg is not a monster of a hand, so you totally overvalued this hand.

dvdfan

Ollieboy wrote:

Also, your point about keeping your raising range the same is a terrible excuse and you should try to mix this up more, you dont want people putting you on hands by the amount you raise in different position, also other players didnt seem to be worried by coming over the top of you, so they never had you on AA etc here.

This is interesting for me, what other peoples approach to this. Do you deviate from 3x blinds +1 per limper or what system do you use. Its just theres alot of people i keep notes on that over raise when there on TT or JJ for example and it sticks out a mile, if i have Ace rag+ in late position im calling and hoping to hit a good flop as i know theyll either fold and ill get the pot or ill take their stack, i just dont want people to put me on a hand as easy as that.

You say they didnt put me on AA because they came over the top but how could they put me on any hand here if they were taking notes. I would raise 3X with AA,KK,AK,QQ,JJ so if they were taking notes then would find it very hard to put me on a hand do you not think. This is the whole idea of why i play this way. In the case above i agree i should have just limped for set value but i dont think my system of raising 3x +1 per limper is bad because it achieves what i want - Anyone taking notes will have a hard time putting me on a hand wheter theyve just started taking notes on me or have been taking them over a couple of weeks.

I suppose i could add a few variations and use the harrington system where i will raise say 99-JJ 5x most times and do the same with other hands like AA raise 3x most times and 5x somtimes so they wont be sure wheter i have AA or JJ and i can still get away with raising mid-high pairs 5x, then they will still find it hard to put me on hand. Would this be a better system, thanks for the advice, im not desputing any of the advice im just trying to get a few more opinions:)

Ollieboy

Example,

Early position and I know I'm playing against good players I might just make a standard 3*bb raise with AA and hope to get crap hands out and be heads up with a player or get reraise, I hate limping with AA or KK in any position, but if the table was playing aggressive, I would limp and come over the top of anyother raise.

Also, if utg and people have note my standard raise is 3, than I might raise 5 just to give the impression that I'm weak or middle pair, so they would call the raise with Ak - AJ and might raise with some of these hands.

My point is to mix up your raising range as much as possible, also, whats your limping range, your given away so much information in been consistant with your raising and limping range here, if I saw you limp in early position and had notes, I would raise with any 2 cards on the button or blinds, because my notes say you'll fold, because your playing consistant and doing the correct thing.

Playing standard is fine, but to win more at higher levels and out fox the top players you need to keep people guessing.

Also, my point about not putting you on AA is quite simple, most people dont use notes or just have short term memory at the levels your playing. My own Dad plays that level and didnt even know about the note features etc. So your playing as if its higher stakes and better players, fine and correct, but your given the other players to much credit.