Want to try something new...

OctavarIan

......yeah I want to try something different to what I've played before. I've played a bit of guitar, but pretty much no bass. (Although I've played the basses at a local music store, and I quite enjoy the feel of them) So I have it narrowed down to three options:

A 6-string bass

A 5-string fretless bass

A 7-string guitar

What would you recommend I go for? (I'm a keyboardist, if that makes any difference)

joenailface

go for a 6 string fretless *nods* wider spectrum of notes to play and since your a keyboardist your used to playing half steps, the fretless with let you play quarter steps and stuff, itd be a nice way to learn some new stuff i think

feylya

joe, that's twice tonight you have given bad advice. Please keep that in check.

Octavarian, if you want to expand to extended range instruments, personally I would recommend a 5 string fretted bass but not from Harley Benton. In my experience (I own the 7 string), they are poor instruments.

Morf

well fretless bass will be a huge challenge without previous bass playing experience, i'd probably recommend a 4 string bass to begin, but a fretted 5 string if you must . .

John

I say go for 5 from the start if you want to play 5. It's a completely different style to 4 in my opinion (I wouldn't consider myself bad as a bass player but I find 5 strings and up quite difficult to play). I would recommend fretted first though. Although, if you're adventurous and dedicated then take a risk!

Gaspode

I'd recommend a fretted bass if youre starting out on bass. Start with a 4 or 5 string and see how it goes. If you are particularly talented at bass, then consider going over 5 strings. Most bassists do a pretty decent job with 4 strings so 6 or more is really for the highly proficient bassist looking to be very expressive.

Doctor J

Don't jump into playing stringed instruments by going for a 6 string bass. It's not an easy instrument to get to grips with. Fretless, if you haven't played bass before, I wouldn't consider fretless a good place to start. Again, it's a tough instrument to get going on and if you're starting out, it could put you off playing bass.

To be honest, what I would suggest would be to get a bog standard four string Fender second hand (so you can sell without losing any money). See if you like playing bass on an ongoing basis, see how your hands like a chunky bass neck. From there you can see if you want/need more strings or if you want to go fretless. There's nothing as depressing as seeing people playing extended range instruments without actually using the extended range. The instruments are physically more cumbersome and harder to play and, if you're not making use of the extra string, why add extra obstacles into playing the thing?

Alucard II

get a Chapman Stick.

Karl Hungus

Doctor J wrote:

The instruments are physically more cumbersome and harder to play and, if you're not making use of the extra string, why add extra obstacles into playing the thing?

Truth be told, I find a 7 String guitar more comfortable than a 6.

Gaspode

Karl Hungus wrote:

Truth be told, I find a 7 String guitar more comfortable than a 6.

But you probably wouldnt have if you started out on a 7-string. (or did you?)

Karl Hungus

deswalsh wrote:

But you probably wouldnt have if you started out on a 7-string. (or did you?)

Started out on bass, oddly enough. I've only been playing 7 for about a year and a half.

Rustar

If you're picking up bass to play 'bass' (as opposed to some crazy 3-handed keyboard tapping technique on a multi-string instrument), then my recommendation would be a fretted 4-string.
We bassists do more with less. And learning the whole thought groove behind bassiness and bass parts doesn't require extra strings.

People like Stanley Clarke, Jaco Pastorius, Geddy Lee, Jeff Berlin, Stu Hamm, and (early) Chris Squire prove that 4 strings is MORE than enough.

Alucard II

i still think the fact that you play bass AND keyboard means you'd pick up the Chapman stick quicker than most, and thats a wonderfully versatile instrument.

Karl Hungus

Alucard II wrote:

i still think the fact that you play bass AND keyboard means you'd pick up the Chapman stick quicker than most, and thats a wonderfully versatile instrument.

Yeah, but they're hard to get hold of. There's something like a 2 year waiting list to get one built, isn't there?

OctavarIan

Alucard II wrote:

i still think the fact that you play bass AND keyboard means you'd pick up the Chapman stick quicker than most, and thats a wonderfully versatile instrument.

While I'd love a chapman stick, I'm on a budget here :P And I don't play bass, just keyboard. I think I'll eliminate the fretless. Now I can't decide between the 6 string bass and the 7 string guitar. Think a visit to town on sunday is in order! Anyone know if music maker or walton's have either of those on shelf to try?

feylya

Don't get a 6 string bass. They're extremely difficult to play in my experience.

Karl Hungus

OctavarIan wrote:

While I'd love a chapman stick, I'm on a budget here :P And I don't play bass, just keyboard. I think I'll eliminate the fretless. Now I can't decide between the 6 string bass and the 7 string guitar. Think a visit to town on sunday is in order! Anyone know if music maker or walton's have either of those on shelf to try?

Avoid Waltons, and go straight to Musician Inc. They've a few 7 strings. Not too sure about 6 string basses though.

feylya wrote:

Don't get a 6 string bass. They're extremely difficult to play in my experience.

I dunno about that, the John Myung signiature I played was incredible. Absolute butter.

feylya

So you played a nice instrument. Well done. That doesn't excuse the fact that 6 string basses are damn hard to play, especially more so when you haven't play bass before

Karl Hungus

feylya wrote:

So you played a nice instrument. Well done. That doesn't excuse the fact that 6 string basses are damn hard to play, especially more so when you haven't play bass before

My point was that it wasn't any more difficult to play than any other bass I've played.

feylya

And you've been playing bass supposedly for 7 or so years? Starting on a 6 would be too hard.

Doctor J

6 string bass is a lot harder, physically, to play. End of story. The sheer volume of the neck and space from low B to high involves more physical effort. Learning on a piece of crap like that Harley Benton would be even harder. Speaking as someone with a few years experience of playing 6 string bass, a good one, I tell you now it's not an easy instrument to learn, even as an experienced bassist and there's no way in hell I would recommend someone start out with one. Why not learn guitar on an 8 string? Madness, IMO.

Learn the fundamentals of bass on a standard design, then see if you'll play in a way that'll actually make use of the extra strings. There's **** all point in trying to manipulate a fretboard three inches wide if you're not using most of it.

Karl Hungus

feylya wrote:

And you've been playing bass supposedly for 7 or so years? Starting on a 6 would be too hard.

Maybe, maybe not. Really depends on whether or not you'd be comfortable playing on such a wide neck, the techniques you'd learn would be the same, you'd just apply them to more strings.

I'd say the best thing would just be to try 'em out and see what's comfortable.

Honestly, I'd be more concerned about Octavarian's budget, and that a decent 6 string might be a little out of his reach.

Doctor J

Dream bleedin Theater are to blame for this

You'll note Petrucci only uses a 7 string when he actually plays 7 strings. For most of the set he plays 6 strings and there's a reason behind that.

Beecher

OctavarIan wrote:

While I'd love a chapman stick, I'm on a budget here :P And I don't play bass, just keyboard. I think I'll eliminate the fretless. Now I can't decide between the 6 string bass and the 7 string guitar. Think a visit to town on sunday is in order! Anyone know if music maker or walton's have either of those on shelf to try?

Last time I checked musicmaker had one of these Peavey Grind Basses. Great value for the money. It is one of the easier 6 string basses i've played and it should give you an idea if this is the right path to follow.

Doctor J wrote:

Dream bleedin Theater are to blame for this

You'll note Petrucci only uses a 7 string when he actually plays 7 strings. For most of the set he plays 6 strings and there's a reason behind that.

Apparently he now uses a detuned baritone 6 string instead of his 7's.

OctavarIan

Doctor J wrote:

Dream bleedin Theater are to blame for this

You'll note Petrucci only uses a 7 string when he actually plays 7 strings. For most of the set he plays 6 strings and there's a reason behind that.

Hehe, not entirely actually! I've always been interested in the extended range, and I love the sound of metal bands who use the 7-string. I don't intend on emulating petrucci's shredding high on the neck. I want to use some heavy riffs in my music, and I just can't achieve that guitar sound with a keyboard.

As for the bass, I've played 5-strings and found them fairly comfortable, is the 6 much different?

Beecher wrote:

Last time I checked musicmaker had one of these Peavey Grind Basses. Great value for the money. It is one of the easier 6 string basses i've played and it should give you an idea if this is the right path to follow.

Holy crap, don't tempt me! Basses with that wooden finish are among the sexiest instruments out there imo! There's a Warwick I saw once that made me drool.

Karl Hungus

OctavarIan wrote:

I want to use some heavy riffs in my music, and I just can't achieve that guitar sound with a keyboard.

Then why not just grab a 6 string and tune it down to B?

OctavarIan

Karl Hungus wrote:

Then why not just grab a 6 string and tune it down to B?

Cos then I'd be missing the E right?

Doctor J

OctavarIan wrote:

As for the bass, I've played 5-strings and found them fairly comfortable, is the 6 much different?

Yes, in my experience it is. It's a whole new ball game. The 5er is still very much similar to a traditional bass, it's a natural evolution and your hand adapts naturally to the slightly larger neck size.

I'm speaking as someone with almost twenty years of playing bass and a few years of that are with a 6 string, not just a few minutes sitting down in a shop. I play guitar and drums too, so I'm not closed-minded about these things, nor am I fervently pro-extended range, I'm into what's right for the job without getting bogged down in sentiment or some agenda. I'm giving you my opinion based on many years of experience. If you're starting out on bass, start with the basics and move on. My fear would be that getting a piece of crap like the 6er you linked to will do more harm than good and put you off playing bass. Bear in mind a **** B string won't be used and you'll need a good amp to put out a clear B too. Factor in the extra weight and neck dive of a 6 and, yes, there are a lot of factors to consider, that's before we get into the cramped and uncomfortable string spacing a lot of cheap 6ers have, combined with **** pickups with weak lower range output and you're just getting into a world of unnecessary ****e.

Listen, if you're just into the riffing then get a 4 and tune it down or spend some time checking out 5ers. Getting a 6 is just absurd, to me, because they are not something a beginner will find easy to adapt to. In a similar vein, it's like this with a 7 string guitar. If you're not going to use the high notes then why bother with the extra dead wood under your hand, just tune down a 6. I'd be surprised if you arrived at a point where you had something you couldn't do on a 6 string guitar.

Beecher

OctavarIan wrote:

Cos then I'd be missing the E right?

E is still there, just in a different position.

Karl Hungus

In fairness, the Doc knows his stuff, so I'd tend to trust him.

Doctor J

All I'm saying is, when I want to fiddle about or just relax and enjoy playing bass, I don't reach for the 6. The only time I play the 6 is when I specifially want to use the high C, the rest of the time, I wouldn't touch just because of the extra hassle. I wouldn't have a 6 as my only bass, no chance.

Start on a four and get the fundamentals down, then see how you want to move on with your bass playing. Be careful about 5s, some I've seen have exceptionally narrow string spacing which would make finger playing rather difficult. Find out if you like playing bass first, get your technique together second. Do so on any of the decent 4 strings out there in the budget you've got, for example Fey and I were checking out a pretty decent SX Jazz today. Then if you want to explore extended range do so on an instrument which suits you and you'll know what suits you from learning to play on a regular bass. Baby steps, rather than biting off more than one can chew.

OctavarIan

What would be a recommended power for an amp to play the low-end guitar stuff without it sounding like mud? Bear in mind it'll be confined to my room.

feylya

0.5w

Karl Hungus

You know, in the spirit of "Trying something new" I'd nearly recommend that you get a guitar with a floating trem. Thinking about it, you're already a keyboard player, so it would definetly be something new for you to be able to manipulate the note in a way you wouldn't be able to on a keyboard.

I know, I know, I wanted them to make a piano with a floating trem, but they wouldn't do it. Well, who's laughing now!?

feylya

Karl, they have mod wheels on keyboards to change the pitch... Ever listen to Dream Theater?

Karl Hungus

feylya wrote:

Ever listen to Dream Theater?

Who now?

Seriously though, a mod wheel isn't really the same thing as a tremolo. Or can you do things like flutters on that? Pull an artificial harmonic sharp? Or some other Steve Vai-esque fun...

I'm just saying, is all, that a guitar with a nice floating trem might be the 'Something different'?

david

Karl Hungus wrote:

Who now?

Seriously though, a mod wheel isn't really the same thing as a tremolo. Or can you do things like flutters on that? Pull an artificial harmonic sharp? Or some other Steve Vai-esque fun...

I'm just saying, is all, that a guitar with a nice floating trem might be the 'Something different'?

Yeah you can do pretty much anything that a trem can do with a keyboard, you can assign ranges and stuff for pitch bending.. far more comprehensive than a floating trem to be honest. You cant hit pinches though lol

Rustar

OctavarIan wrote:

What would be a recommended power for an amp to play the low-end guitar stuff without it sounding like mud? Bear in mind it'll be confined to my room.

One option is to get a bass combo with one or two 12's and throw your effects (ME or pedals) in front of it.
That's exactly how I play at home with my Boss ME50 and a Behringer Ultrabass 120w.

Rich, creamery-butter distortion.

Alucard II

Doctor J wrote:

All I'm saying is, when I want to fiddle about or just relax and enjoy playing bass, I don't reach for the 6.

i wonder how that works for Chaoth.
"i think i'll relax and play some bass, now should i go for the 7 or the 9....."