Buying quitars from the web

TempestSabre

For me a lot of choosing in guitar is how it feels in your hand. So I'm a bit baffled how you can choose a guitar over the web. Is it not a bit of a lottery? You might hate the feel of it.

-=al=-

Research!

as for lefties, its just normal since its most likely u cant try it out anyways.. the guitar shops gona do the same only charge u more!

same with anyone who wants particular models..

feylya

It is a bit of a lottery I spose but out of three or four guitars I've gotten online, only one has been a dud and that was only after ages of not getting used to the bridge.

Edit: Hang on, what's a quitar?

Voodu Child

A strat feels like a strat, an Ibanez feels like an Ibanez, a LP feels like a LP. People may buy guitars that you cant find over here, so they cant try an equivalent first, but almost always its an informed decision.

The only issue is quality control, and of course that can be a lottery. Again, common sense prevails, its common knowledge as to which brands have good QC, and which brands let real stinkers out of the factory.

-=al=-

A giraffe

TempestSabre

voodoo_child wrote:

A strat feels like a strat, an Ibanez feels like an Ibanez, a LP feels like a LP. People may buy guitars that you cant find over here, so they cant try an equivalent first, but almost always its an informed decision.

The only issue is quality control, and of course that can be a lottery. Again, common sense prevails, its common knowledge as to which brands have good QC, and which brands let real stinkers out of the factory.

I was thinking more along the lines of you can try 10 identical strats but you'll probably only like the feel of a couple of them.

Voodu Child

TempestSabre wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of you can try 10 identical strats but you'll probably only like the feel of a couple of them.

Thats why i made the point about quality control. There will be very little difference between 10 brand new American strats (assuming they are all given a proper setup). They pop out of CNC machines. If you try a properly setup one in musicmaker and like it, you should be reasonably comfortable with buying one of the web.

TempestSabre

I dunno I always find one I like more than the rest.

Voodu Child

TempestSabre wrote:

I dunno I always find one I like more than the rest.

Assuming youre talking about the exact same model, then its either a setup issue, or a quality control issue.

There are plenty of brands that will let guitars out of the factory that have sharp fret ends, twisted necks etc., but that is quality control. Of course you'd be mad to buy one of those brands off the internet without a solid return policy.

Fingers Mcginty

I wouldn't be inclined to buy an acoustic off the net.

Johnny Storm

This has been discussed a good few times on this very forum and I dont think there is a definative answer. IMHO you have to balance the savings of buying a guitar cheaper online against the possible cost of mailing it it back to Thomann or whoever because it didn't suit you and possibly having to do that more than once.

I'm inclined to go it online.

Quattroste

TempestSabre wrote:

I dunno I always find one I like more than the rest.

This is just my opinion but I reckon its all in your head. If you tried a Strat in a music shop and liked it a lot, then went online and ordered the exact model, colour etc. There would most likely be a couple of weeks to wait for delivery and then your baby arives. You open, take pictures and post here FIRST , then start playing. All new guitars take a bit of getting used to and then you should get the same feeling you had in the shop. UNLESS, as Voodoo mentions there is a setup or QC issue.

I have bought 4 guitars off the web without even playing a similar guitar and 2 of them are fantastic. The only one I didn't like was a Parker P36 which is a cheap parker and not up to much as a guitar. The LP has a strange top but sounds amazing. If it continues to bother me I'll get it refinished, or sell it and buy a different one.

Voodu Child

Quattroste wrote:

This is just my opinion but I reckon its all in your head.

Thats kinda what i was trying to get at.

Its an old myth that you'll try five identical guitars and one will stand out as 'best', as though it has some kind of mojo or something.

It was true in the olden days, and its still true for cheaper guitars (and probably a few well known expensive brands with poor QC), but in my opinion its not true for American strats. Ive seen oul fellas try out two or three of the same model and start blatherin 'ooh this one has better tone etc', but these things come off a production line.

Gaspode

I've bought 3 guitars online, and all have been fine. One needed some set-up, but you can get that anyway if you go into a shop here.
I dont think its a lottery, but the level of risk is higher when you buy online - the QC could be bad, it may not be as good a guitar as it looked in the pictures, and also, if you do want to return it, its going to cost a fair bit to do this.
However, like any high risk activity the benefits are higher, so you can wind up getting a good guitar at a fraction of what you'd pay in a shop.

I agree with the notion of researching before you buy - its good to know if a particular make is nice to hold and play before you buy it.

TempestSabre

voodoo_child wrote:

Thats kinda what i was trying to get at.

Its an old myth that you'll try five identical guitars and one will stand out as 'best', as though it has some kind of mojo or something.

It was true in the olden days, and its still true for cheaper guitars (and probably a few well known expensive brands with poor QC), but in my opinion its not true for American strats. Ive seen oul fellas try out two or three of the same model and start blatherin 'ooh this one has better tone etc', but these things come off a production line.

Strats and Teles have always come off a production line. They were designed from the outset to be mass produced. The quality was poor at times in the past, which is why people used to buy a few and pick the best one, or like Clapton's blackie, put the best bits together in one quitar.

Maybe its my imagination, but I will always find one I like more then the rest. Cie La Vie.

Voodu Child

TempestSabre wrote:

Strats and Teles have always come off a production line. They were designed from the outset to be mass produced. The quality was poor at times in the past, which is why people used to buy a few and pick the best one, or like Clapton's blackie, put the best bits together in one quitar.

Maybe its my imagination, but I will always find one I like more then the rest. Cie La Vie.

Eh...thats the point ive been making over and over. Fenders QC in the past sucked, which is why some guitars actually were better than other. Nowadays CNC machines work to such high tolerances that any difference you think you feel between two identical American strat is more than likely a setup issue.

Once you stay away from brands with poor QC, you shouldnt be nervous buying online. The savings are usually worth the 'risk'

Johnny Storm

I think there's probably not even any shops in Dublin where you could try and compare 3 or 4 examples of the exact same guitar? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I've never done it, personally, but I would love to try it.
My opinion is that even though guitars are basically made by CNC machines there is still a lot of hand finishing and of course natural variation in woods. I would accept that in a batch of the same guitars you could find ones that felt better to you and sounded better. I'm saying that without having ever experienced it myself :rolleyes:

FYI over at the Parker forum there is currently a craze for measuring the necks of Parker Flys with digital micrometers. Despite the fact that Parkers are all made by CNC machines and make a virtue of their high-precision industrial/technological construction, Fly owners have found pretty significant variations in neck thicknesses. Even a small difference in neck dimension makes a noticeable difference to feel and playability. YMMV

Voodu Child

Johnny Storm wrote:

FYI over at the Parker forum there is currently a craze for measuring the necks of Parker Flys with digital micrometers. Despite the fact that Parkers are all made by CNC machines and make a virtue of their high-precision industrial/technological construction, Fly owners have found pretty significant variations in neck thicknesses.

Thats pretty interesting alright.

Its all academic anyhow, getting back to the original question, for me, im happy buying an Ibanez online and knowing i will like the feel if ive played the same model in a shop here. If someone is cautious buying a good brand online, thats their choice. That is all. :cool:

Voodu Child

Johnny Storm wrote:

FYI over at the Parker forum ..

I did a search and all i could find was guys comparing different models, and ones made in different years. Couldnt find any thread where they compare two guitars from the same model & year to see what the tolerance was like. Wouldnt mind seeing a link though, sounds interesting.

TempestSabre

voodoo_child wrote:

Eh...thats the point ive been making over and over. Fenders QC in the past sucked, which is why some guitars actually were better than other. Nowadays CNC machines work to such high tolerances that any difference you think you feel between two identical American strat is more than likely a setup issue.

Once you stay away from brands with poor QC, you shouldnt be nervous buying online. The savings are usually worth the 'risk'

You can try on 10 pairs of jeans that are all the same size, mass produced and yet you'll find they don't all fit the same. Tooling doesn't last forever so theres always some variance. IMO

To be honest choosing between American strats has never been a problem I've had, so you could be right about that. I've always bought either 2nd hand or cheaper mid range quitars like Charvels or ESP's. But I've always needed to pick up a quitar to get a feel for it.

Johnny Storm

voodoo_child wrote:

I did a search and all i could find was guys comparing different models, and ones made in different years. Couldnt find any thread where they compare two guitars from the same model & year to see what the tolerance was like. Wouldnt mind seeing a link though, sounds interesting.

Here's a few:

http://www.parkerguitars.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2498&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=neck+thickness+measurements

http://www.parkerguitars.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1683&SearchTerms=neck+thickness+measurements

There are deffo some more conclusive threads which I just cant put my finger on at the moment.:rolleyes:
All fly models - mainly Classic, DeLuxe and Mojo are supposed to have the same dimensions.

Voodu Child

Johnny Storm wrote:

Here's a few:

http://www.parkerguitars.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2498&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=neck+thickness+measurements

http://www.parkerguitars.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1683&SearchTerms=neck+thickness+measurements

There are deffo some more conclusive threads which I just cant put my finger on at the moment.:rolleyes:
All fly models - mainly Classic, DeLuxe and Mojo are supposed to have the same dimensions.

Cheers. Wasnt as interesting or clearly presented as i hoped

On a related note, ive 5 JCs and 2 basic RGs at the moment. Every single one of them would have different dimensions. One of them has a one-piece, two or three have 3pc maple, 2 have 5pc maple/wenge or something. Profiles are all different, the J-Customs change every year almost.

- I like the feel of them all

deaddonkey

i buy guitars online...

having said that, i was in manchester a while back with a friend who was shopping for an epi 335 dot RI.

we played every 335 style guitar in town within his price range... mostly epi dots.

musta played about a dozen dot RIs... there's a reason we bought the one we did. it was a superior guitar in every way... fretwork was better, the neck was considerably thicker and beefier, the grain of the wood was nicer, it felt more resonant and sounded outright more springy and lively than the others.

not all guitars are created equal. sometimes 1 just speaks to you that another doesn't, and nothing else will do.

Voodu Child

deaddonkey wrote:

musta played about a dozen dot RIs... there's a reason we bought the one we did. it was a superior guitar in every way... fretwork was better, the neck was considerably thicker and beefier, the grain of the wood was nicer, it felt more resonant and sounded outright more springy and lively than the others

We pretty much covered that already -

voodoo_child wrote:

There are plenty of brands that will let guitars out of the factory that have sharp fret ends, twisted necks etc., but that is quality control......

...It was true in the olden days, and its still true for cheaper guitars..

...Once you stay away from brands with poor QC, you shouldnt be nervous buying online.

I wouldnt buy an Epiphone full stop, whether it was online or not, but thats just me.

TempestSabre

voodoo_child wrote:

We pretty much covered that already...I wouldnt buy an Epiphone full stop, whether it was online or not, but thats just me.

Hey look panto season has started. "Oh no we didn't!"... "Bah humbug" etc. Nice Psuedo modding though

Eoin Madsen

CNC or not, there is going to be some variation between guitars. There are no two pieces of wood alike, so there are no two guitars exactly alike - not to mention finishing and fretwork. If you've very sensitive to the sound and feel of your guitar, or have a very definite idea of what you want in a guitar then buying over the internet is clearly a crazy idea.

But I'm not afraid to admit that I don't have that much of a preconceived notion tbh. I'd happily buy a guitar and just get used to it. I don't think I play enough to have formed any really stringent preferences. When I had my bass made I did make sure the neck profile was based (hehe) on something very like what I'm used to, but beyond that I figured I'd just adapt to what I got. And I have!

Grolschevik

TempestSabre wrote:

You can try on 10 pairs of jeans that are all the same size, mass produced and yet you'll find they don't all fit the same. Tooling doesn't last forever so theres always some variance. IMO

To be honest choosing between American strats has never been a problem I've had, so you could be right about that. I've always bought either 2nd hand or cheaper mid range quitars like Charvels or ESP's. But I've always needed to pick up a quitar to get a feel for it.

I agree. A few years ago, when I was looking for an LP, I must have tried out 3 or 4 Gibsons in Dublin's main Gibbo distributor. Now I will admit that they were shockingly set up, which is shameful enough given that the average price was around £1800 at the time, but whatever about that, I'm not about to drop a load of cash on a badly set up guitar just so I can go to the trouble of setting it up myself, and then possibly discover that it's not for me. I need to feel how the thing will play before parting with any cash.

Incidentally, I found a perfectly set up example on Drury St, loved it, and it's been my main guitar ever since...

Voodu Child

Grolschevik wrote:

Incidentally, I found a perfectly set up example on Drury St, loved it, and it's been my main guitar ever since...

Just out of curiosity, what was the difference between the one you liked and the ones you didnt?

Grolschevik

voodoo_child wrote:

Just out of curiosity, what was the difference between the one you liked and the ones you didnt?

For a start, it was perfectly set up, so I could try it out without being distracted by poor intonation, fret buzz, and even -- if you can believe it on a brand new guitar in a main Gibbo distributor -- pot crackle, and really get a sense of what it would play like at proper volumes. The other ones I'd tried were really shamefully set up, and greasy and grubby from many sweaty paws without ever having been wiped down. But I'd say again, I don't like the idea of buying a poorly set up instrument and going to the trouble of setting it up myself, just to discover that I don't like it. That was the main reason.

Plus, it was £200 cheaper!:D

Voodu Child

But apart from the other one being poorly set up, and dirty, how did it feel different? Did it have a different neck profile? Or were the frets bigger? Or the contours of the body were cut differently?

Grolschevik

Can't say as I remember accurately now about neck profile or fret size. It's all a general impression that some just didn't have the vibe, and I put that down to the distraction caused by a ****ty set up. How can you concentrate on how a guitar plays if the intonation is so bad that an open chord and the corresponding barre chord up the neck are dissonant? I also tried some LP Studios that were cheaper than the one I eventually bought, so it wasn't a price consideration. They just, in some undefinable way, didn't feel right. Gibson at the time had, as far as I remember, several strands of LP on the market that had different necks, but I didn't know that at the time and the sales people weren't offering any info, if they had a clue. So maybe it did come down to neck preference, but I don't think so, as the one I bought had a very different neck profile to my old LP copy that had been up to that my main guitar. Perhaps it's psychological: maybe I, and others, like to try before they buy, however limited the testing experience in any shop is...