Policy on non- taken holidays

shane86

In my work you are allowed to carry 40 hours of paid holidays into the new year. I have 86, meaning I have to take close on 6 days before the years end. However, it appears I can only get one paid day off (Christmas Day and Stephens Day treated as public holidays for which you dont need to use your own allocated holiday time, Ive the day after Stes Day off as well). Ive been trying to get the rest off but its looking tight. If I dont what is the law on this? Will it simply be a case that I work the days I wanted off and get paid for them, and then my untaken holiday money of circa 46 hours is credited back to me regardless, in addition to the hours I worked? Or would that be making more wages than I would be entitled to, and thus I cant get it? And therefore Im making a loss of around 500 euro because I didnt get the holidays?

Wishbone Ash

shane86 wrote:

Will it simply be a case that I work the days I wanted off and get paid for them, and then my untaken holiday money of circa 46 hours is credited back to me

No, that would be illegal. An employer is not permitted to pay an employee in lieu of annual leave except in exceptional circumstances which do not apply in your case.

shane86 wrote:

Im making a loss of around 500 euro because I didnt get the holidays?

It is an employers responsibility to ensure that their employees have taken their annual leave entitlements. Your employer/manager/supervisor etc. should not have permitted you to let this lapse. You should not be penalised because there isn't enough time left to take them.

Our man in Havana

I would also add that it may not be all the employers fault. The employee should have known about it and taken steps earlier in the year to dispose of his holidays in a timely manner.

Random

If there's 6 days left in the year and you have 6 days holidays left, you're entitled by law to take them as far as I know.

Though, you can carry over til the end of March the following year if agreed between both partys iirc.

@bond
It's marked down as the empoyers responsibility in law as far as I'm aware.

Our man in Havana

I would consider it the employees fault if he leaves tons of holidays unused on purpose.

Random

Bond-007 wrote:

I would consider it the employees fault if he leaves tons of holidays unused on purpose.

I do see your POV, but the laws the law.

leeroybrown

As ciaranfo says, legally speaking, it is the responsibility of the employer to ensure that the minimum statutory annual leave is taken during the relevant period.

What interests me are these maximum carry over limits that some employers impose. My understanding of the law on this is that the unused leave can be carried over for up to six months with the consent of the employee but I've never seen any legal provision that states that they can limit the amount of leave that an employee can carry over or prevent it completely.

Is there anyone here from a suitably qualified background to give a more difinitive answer to this?

Our man in Havana

In my work place the carrying over of leave is strictly prohibited, any untaken leave is simply forfeited.

seamus

Yep, it's legally the employer's responsibility to ensure that their employees are given sufficient annual leave.

I think the main purpose of swinging it around this way is so that employers can "schedule" time off for employees when it best suits the company - i.e. so all their employees can't just demand the week before Christmas off.

There doesn't seem to be any actual provision in law for what to do if an employer fails in this duty, except that they will get in a bit of trouble.

leeroybrown

My take on that provision was always that it was to give the employer the right to dictate (within reason) when leave is taken but it appears to also give them the responsibility to ensure that the leave is taken too.

TBH, my own opinion is that it's also in the employees interest to ensure they use their leave adequately and that I wouldn't necessary blame the employer for it. I've lost a decent chunk of unused annual leave over the course of the last couple of years and I've got no problem with it. My employer forces no leave on me and doesn't overly constrain when I chose to use mine and I look at the use of it as a personal responsibility.

My question was driven purely by interest rather than indignance or any serious objection to these types of policies.

BC

AFAIK it is illegal for the employer to say you can't carry holidays as it is their responsibility to ensure you take them. If the employer has not ensured that you have taken the holidays within the leave year then you are entitled to carry the holidays into the first 6 months of the next leave year.

See here for more details: http://www.entemp.ie/publications/employment/1997/holidays.pdf

seamus

BC wrote:

If the employer has not ensured that you have taken the holidays within the leave year then you are entitled to carry the holidays into the first 6 months of the next leave year.

Incorrect. You may only carry holidays forward with the agreement of your employer. There is no entitlement.

Kimbot

seamus wrote:

Incorrect. You may only carry holidays forward with the agreement of your employer. There is no entitlement.

Exactly, its at the disgression of the employer!!

The Doktor

I had this problem with an employer. In September (couple of years ago) we were told that no more leave was to be taken for the rest of the year, due to an important project that was to be completed before the year end.
A number of employees still had leave entitlements, and as the company has a "use it or loose it" policy, we were told we could not carry the leave over. Hardly fair if you ask me.
So if you refer to the Organisation of working time Act, you can see that an employer must decide when you take leave, taking into account an employees family commitments, opportunities for rest etc.
The employer must also ensure leave entitlement is taken within the leave year, or with the consent of the employee, within six months of the leave year.
When my employer was reminded of this act, we were able to carry over the leave.

Carb

seamus wrote:

Incorrect. You may only carry holidays forward with the agreement of your employer. There is no entitlement.

Anywhere I've read up on it, it states that holidays can only be carried into the following six months after the leave year at the discretion of the employee, not the employer. The employer can only decide when it relates to holidays above the statutory minimum. And for those with use it or loose it poilices, this would certainly be illegal.

Wishbone Ash

Bond-007 wrote:

I would also add that it may not be all the employers fault. The employee should have known about it and taken steps earlier in the year to dispose of his holidays in a timely manner.

It is the employer's responsibility.

Organisation of Working Time Act 1997

25.—(1) An employer shall keep, at the premises or place where his or her employee works or, if the employee works at two or more premises or places, the premises or place from which the activities that the employee is employed to carry on are principally directed or controlled, such records, in such form, if any, as may be prescribed, as will show whether the provisions of this Act are being complied with in relation to the employee and those records shall be retained by the employer for at least 3 years from the date of their making.

(2) The Minister may by regulations exempt from the application of subsection (1) any specified class or classes of employer and regulations under this subsection may provide that any such exemption shall not have effect save to the extent that specified conditions are complied with.

(3) An employer who, without reasonable cause, fails to comply with subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence.

(4) Without prejudice to subsection (3), where an employer fails to keep records under subsection (1) in respect of his or her compliance with a particular provision of this Act in relation to an employee, the onus of proving, in proceedings before a rights commissioner or the Labour Court, that the said provision was complied with in relation to the employee shall lie on the employer.

seamus

Carb wrote:

Anywhere I've read up on it, it states that holidays can only be carried into the following six months after the leave year at the discretion of the employee, not the employer. The employer can only decide when it relates to holidays above the statutory minimum. And for those with use it or loose it poilices, this would certainly be illegal.

Actually, it's a bit of both now that I've looked into it. The employee cannot demand or choose to carry their leave over, however an employer can only carry leave over for six months with the agreement of the employee.

gurramok

seamus wrote:

Actually, it's a bit of both now that I've looked into it. The employee cannot demand or choose to carry their leave over, however an employer can only carry leave over for six months with the agreement of the employee.

Sounds about right.
My employer used to have a policy of carrying 5 days over but they changed it this year back in October to zero days over and 'forced' everyone to take all their holidays.
Unfortunately, employers are perfectly legally to deny carryover.

Wishbone Ash

gurramok wrote:

Unfortunately, employers are perfectly legally to deny carryover.

Why do you think that it is unfortunate? It only creates a viscious circle - more difficult to use up next year's quota with additional days to take. It also goes against the spirit of annual leave/work life balance etc.