Route 84X - new timetable

DubOnHoliday

This service was supposed to operate a new timetable since monday 11th.
Yesterday, 2 of these new services didn't show up... 7:45 am from Kilcoole and 1pm from Eden Quay... When questioned ... the inspector on Eden quay denied knowlede of the new services until shown on the board the list of them ....

anyone else waiting around for the mystery 84x's???

loyatemu

I got the 1645 from town yesterday and had to persuade the driver that the route now goes "through" charlesland (in reality it goes in and goes back out the same way).

maybe ring Donnybrook garage?

DubOnHoliday

yeah I'll get on to them.... my elderly mother (along with other queueing passengers) didn't enjoy standing around in the cold waiting for these buses. Its not on.

mikedragon32

loyatemu wrote:

I got the 1645 from town yesterday and had to persuade the driver that the route now goes "through" charlesland (in reality it goes in and goes back out the same way).

maybe ring Donnybrook garage?

There's nothing like joined up thinking is there?

As I'll now be using public transport permanently to get to and from work, I'm especially interested in the 84X as it's virtually a door to door service for me!

How long does the 16:45 take to get to Charlesland from town?

loyatemu

got back to Charlesland at 1805. i was curious to see if it was any quicker than getting the 1650 dart from Connolly - its not. Very quick along the stillorgan road, but takes a while to get out of the City Centre and then got delayed again on the M11.

mikedragon32

Well, in fairness, if the Charlesland Bus is there on time to meet that Dart, you get in just before 6, so it's a 10 minute difference, although I would acknowlege that traffic varies so it could be a lot slower.

That said, when the dart goes wrong, it tends to go VERY wrong.

SickCert

Get onto DB about maps for the drivers will you, some are quite stumped!

And the newtown variation has you guys stumped too........;)

loyatemu

SickCert wrote:

Get onto DB about maps for the drivers will you, some are quite stumped!

And the newtown variation has you guys stumped too........;)

the Newtown buses go straight down the N11 and skip greystones altogether - is this correct?

dazmetron

Which 84x's go through Kilmac and what route do they take before and after Kilmac? The online timetable makes absolutly no sense.

loyatemu

AFAIK any 84X to or from Newtown goes via Kilmac - ie straight down the N11 from Newtown to Kilmac then continuing on the N11 to Loughlinstown.

someone from DB might know better though.

John R

dazmetron wrote:

Which 84x's go through Kilmac and what route do they take before and after Kilmac? The online timetable makes absolutly no sense.

The 17.15, 17.45 from Eden Quay and the 07.00, 07.15, 07.30, 07.45 from Newtownmountkennedy.

From the city; straight down the N11-M11 to Kilmacanogue. From there I assume it continues on the N11 until the turnoff for Newtown that the 184 uses. In the other direction I would guess it serves Kilpedder the same way as the 184 but possibly not.

All the others go via Southern Cross, Greystones, Charlesland and Kilcoole.

The timetable is a mess, it does not give any indication that there are 2 different routings after N11(Eniskerry Road Junction) and I have no idea where "Leabeg" is.

mikedragon32

It seems ridiculous to have these two routes covered by one route number. I guess you'd just need to be certain the bus you take is actually going where you want to go!

loyatemu

there was an DB ad in this weeks north wicklow times which had a little schematic map detailing the route(s) of the 84x - why they don't have this on the timetable I don't know

this is roughly what it looked like (attached)

loyatemu

mikedragon32 wrote:

It seems ridiculous to have these two routes covered by one route number. I guess you'd just need to be certain the bus you take is actually going where you want to go!

fair point - maybe the Newtown route should be called the 184X

its also a bit daft that the timetable says "From Newtownmountkennedy" when the majority of service don't actually go there.

Victor

I suspect this is Dublin Bus having to work around the DoT's procrastination.

AlekSmart

Very well put Victor.
One of the most overlooked aspects of Dublin Bus`s attempts to keep it`s services afloat is the extent of the control excercised by the Dept of Transport.

Its a most incredible scenario really in that the Dept is represented by a relatively small coterie of professional Senior Civil Servants who,being totally unaccountable to ANYbody have developed a fine sense of Power.

The Dept exerts very strong control over almost all aspects of Dublin Bus`s daily operations and demands a skip load of data each and every day from DB.

Most local management figures in DB would be required to spend a disproportionate amount of their time attempting to satisfy the Depts insatiable appetite for figures.

The reality that these figures are of no use whatever to the average DB Bus Passenger in their daily commute cuts no ice with our brave and intrepid Civil Servants,many of whom are eyeing up posts in the new DTA when it arrives.

These Civil Servants are somewhat enthused by the report of the DTA Establishment Team which seeks Full autonomy in setting a remuneration level for any new CX which meets its exacting requirements.

Now we all know that in the "established" Civil Service the hip bone is connected to the thigh bone and so forth so any loosening of the Gleeson Report Pay and Renumeration guideleines for ONE grade effectively frees everybody from such tiresome restraints.

This sort of oul shyte occupies each and every waking hour of these people and baby does it not show....and then some.

With the DTA report now being effectively trashed by the combined Local Authorities and the Minister already rejecting its most important core recommendation it is easy to see why Prof Margaret O Mahoney decided to retreat deep into the groves of academe in preference to having to get down and dirty with this gang.

In the meantime Dublin Bus drivers operating the 84X remain grateful when they actually DO know which way any particular journey operates as the Company have been keen to keep it a secret from EVERYBODY...!!! :eek:

Ludo

Having taken the 84x almost every day for the last year, they have really pi**ed me off with it now. The lack of information about these timetable changes is a great example of the s*it planning of public transport in this country.

The timetable on the web is a joke...interval times people!!!!
Put notices on the busstops so the regulars are actually told that the times have changed. I have rang donnybrook numerous times about this to get information and no-one there seemed to have a clue...at least they wouldnt admit they knew anything about the changes.

I do appear to have cracked it now though finally. Instead of getting the 7.40 from the southern cross to town I now have to get one at 7.15ish as the 7.40 is now at about 7.50/7.55 and is already nearly full when it gets there.

Vokes

All seems a mess now.

Aside, anyone know a reason why the 1015 service (to the City) was scrapped It was very popular during the college semesters.

dowlingm

So there's a 84X bus from Newcastle to Greystones where there's a DART station and the 84 usually serves Bray DART station and passes very near Sandyford LUAS at Stillorgan Road/Brewery Road but it heads on into An Lar anyway... ah never mind...

DubOnHoliday

SofaKing wrote:

All seems a mess now.

Aside, anyone know a reason why the 1015 service (to the City) was scrapped It was very popular during the college semesters.

what the hell are DublinBus doing with this route? On the timetable they issued on 11 Dec, the 1015 disappeared and was replaced by one at 9:30. So off the missus goes to get this one this morning, after 30 minutes waiting for it, I rechecked the timetable to see 9:30 bus disappeared according to new timetable of 1st Jan, and replaced by one at 11:20????? Thanks for the huge publicity campaign Dublin Bus, not. :mad:

mikedragon32

dowlingm wrote:

So there's a 84X bus from Newcastle to Greystones where there's a DART station and the 84 usually serves Bray DART station and passes very near Sandyford LUAS at Stillorgan Road/Brewery Road but it heads on into An Lar anyway... ah never mind...

Not everyone who takes the 84X (or any other bus for that matter) is going to the city center and may be going somewhere neither the LUAS or DART go. Donnybrook, for example.

SickCert

Ludo wrote:

Having taken the 84x almost every day for the last year, they have really pi**ed me off with it now. The lack of information about these timetable changes is a great example of the s*it planning of public transport in this country.

The timetable on the web is a joke...interval times people!!!!
Put notices on the busstops so the regulars are actually told that the times have changed. I have rang donnybrook numerous times about this to get information and no-one there seemed to have a clue...at least they wouldnt admit they knew anything about the changes.

I do appear to have cracked it now though finally. Instead of getting the 7.40 from the southern cross to town I now have to get one at 7.15ish as the 7.40 is now at about 7.50/7.55 and is already nearly full when it gets there.

Its all been a mess hasnt it.
For years it has been operated by Bray lads that know where they are going, but with the new system it has been Donnybrook. Drivers that live in Meath, Kildare and other far far parts.
Some of the directions and queries about directions ive heard over the radio are scary and in a nutshell ---- the bus is lost. Things should pick up from the 14th as you are getting regular drivers (myself included).
Pathetic mistakes like the Newcastle bus being in Newtown and so on should be no more.

Ludo

Thats good to know SickCert. Today for the second Thursday in a row the 84x that passes the southern cross at 7.10am did not turn up...twas nasty standing in the wind and rain this morning until one eventually turned up around 7.40.

Bit suspicious that it was two thursdays when this happened...wonder does the current drive have a regular pissup on wednesdays or something?

dowlingm

mikedragon, that's not the problem. The problem is that when making a 1 or 2 change journey you don't get the "credit" for the longer journey you would get with a single bus ticket. Every DART station should have a bus route linking it and the area in between to Green LUAS, same with Metro North. A UCD student could leave Newcastle on the Wicklow Transit bus to Greystones, onto the DART, get off at Sydney Parade and get the bus to Belfield.

Admittedly LUAS Green is unlikely to be able to handle the capacity of a proper bus fed network - that's why it was built as upgradable to metro even though the Government are likely to bottle an immediate extension of Metro North right through to Ranelagh and instead are ordering more Green trams to push it to its max.

On my way home I have the option of subway+subway+bus, streetcar+subway+bus or streetcar+bus+walk and it costs me the same because Toronto operates a single zone fare. Happy days.

A smartcard should offer the same connectivity, although I would optimise pricing so that longer distances are cheaper on subway but more expensive on the bus to push people onto connecting services.

At the same time short distances should be extremely cheap for a connection so that a tired commuter on the metro can hop on the bus for maybe 50c for 3-4 stops from the station to their house but someone who's just too lazy to walk to the local shop for the paper might be E1.00.

SickCert

Ludo wrote:

Thats good to know SickCert. Today for the second Thursday in a row the 84x that passes the southern cross at 7.10am did not turn up...twas nasty standing in the wind and rain this morning until one eventually turned up around 7.40.

Bit suspicious that it was two thursdays when this happened...wonder does the current drive have a regular pissup on wednesdays or something?

Which one are you waiting for?
630kil
645newc

Going by my sheets the next is
715newc
730kilc
745kilc

Excluding newtowns!

I dont have the best understandings of the running time yet, but the 645 is the closest to your 710 at the X, i cant imagine it doing this section is less than 15/20mins - but my last 84X was 2004!

Victor

dowlingm wrote:

Toronto operates a single zone fare.

How big is that zone and how much is hte fare?

dowlingm

Victor - zone area is about 17km x 37km based on a quick google measurement. Exact city area is 630sq km according to city budget. Fare good for tram, metro, bus - not suburban. Cash fare 2.75 (2.10 if you buy 5 or 10), monthly 99.75 cash, 91.50. All prices in CAD - 1.5CAD > 1EUR.

Post smartcard I suspect zones will come back, we used to have them before 1973.

Edit - in the 2001 census the TTC zone covered 2.481 million people.

atlantean

Now I am not trying to alienate anyone in Killincarraig but as the 84X is an Xpresso would it not be easier and faster to run from Kilcoole straight down the duel carriageway through Charlesland to Greystones? This idea of going half way up to kilcoole only to turn back and then go around the long way is not what an express bus should be doing if it is to save time!

the entire local network needs to be addressed in this area.

Ludo

Also a bit rediculous that the 5 and 5.30 from town in the evening are always busy but the 5.15 is empty as it doesn't pass through Bray or Greystones. Maybe they ought to consider sending them all that way.

SickCert

The loop of Charlesland is about 4 minutes.
The Newtown part is under review since it passes no houses its empty! Expect it to run through the Cross to Greystones and Delgany to Newtown - but this was said in passing between an upper official and a rep in a corridor so god only knows when.

DubOnHoliday

the visit to charlesland by the 84x may take 4 mins as you say however it results in a delay of 10 or 15 minutes in arriving in town. Also at 7:30 there are 2 84x buses from Newc and Kilcoole, no need for both of them to go to charlesland.

For the other poster, I dont think the people of Killincarraig would be giving away their buses too easily, and why should they.

Ludo

DubOnHoliday wrote:

Also at 7:30 there are 2 84x buses from Newc and Kilcoole, no need for both of them to go to charlesland.

I did find it funny myself that the buses in the morning start 15 mins apart from destinations roughly 15 mins apart so they end up travelling together by time they reach Greystones or Bray. Wouldn't it have made sense to start them at the same time so they actually stay spread out a bit for the journey?

Also, the drivers really ought to know where the bus stops are at this stage :-)
The driver last night slowed down at the wrong stop on Stephens Green. Funnily enough no-one stuck their hand out as it was the wrong stop. He then sped off and luckily just caught sight of people waving at him at the next stop as he whizzed by. Good man though he slammed on the brakes and stopped twenty yards up the road once he realised his mistake. I thought I was going to have to wait half an hour for the next bus when he went by.

atlantean

DubOnHoliday wrote:

For the other poster, I dont think the people of Killincarraig would be giving away their buses too easily, and why should they.

No! they should not but the fact of the matter is that it seems a tad silly to have 2 buses doing a loop on a so called express route! I would also be amazed if it only takes 4 minutes at peak hour from the time of turning off Mill road going up to Charlesland, picking up passengers and then returning onto the Mill Road. All it takes is one passenger to start rooting in their bag for change to turn the 4 minutes into something much longer!

atlantean

Ludo wrote:

Also, the drivers really ought to know where the bus stops are at this stage :-)
The driver last night slowed down at the wrong stop on Stephens Green. Funnily enough no-one stuck their hand out as it was the wrong stop. He then sped off and luckily just caught sight of people waving at him at the next stop as he whizzed by. Good man though he slammed on the brakes and stopped twenty yards up the road once he realised his mistake. I thought I was going to have to wait half an hour for the next bus when he went by.

This is the exact reason I gave up using this service and bought a car!

There were quite a few drivers who knew the route but there were so many muppets who didn't and a journey that could take an hour took over 90 minutes!

Then they would stop at every stop once they hit Greystones - Grand if you lived in between the Xpresso stops but not so good for anyone who lived at the end of the route and had paid the extra for an express service!

SickCert

This is the exact reason I gave up using this service and bought a car!

There were quite a few drivers who knew the route but there were so many muppets who didn't and a journey that could take an hour took over 90 minutes!

Then they would stop at every stop once they hit Greystones - Grand if you lived in between the Xpresso stops but not so good for anyone who lived at the end of the route and had paid the extra for an express service!

How is using a car quicker than this service? As for the journey taking over an hour terminus to terminus, i do it in around 1h 15mins but it all depends on the M11/M50 merge point and the Southern cross sliproad. The scheduled service time is 1hr 50min and with the way traffic is growing, one rainy day it may come close to it.

atlantean

SickCert wrote:

How is using a car quicker than this service? As for the journey taking over an hour terminus to terminus, i do it in around 1h 15mins but it all depends on the M11/M50 merge point and the Southern cross sliproad. The scheduled service time is 1hr 50min and with the way traffic is growing, one rainy day it may come close to it.

When the 84X was first introduced it had a running time of 1hour fron city centre to Kilcoole. Many of the drivers could make this but there were those who would add an other 30 minutes onto it.

There was one guy who was following the 7th. or 9th. universal(can't remember which covered it) at the time and he was able to be in Kilcoole a 1840 having departed Eden Quay at 17:50. He mainly had AD19 for some reason. This was an animal of a car as it did 3 gallops.

In reply to your question "How is using a car quicker than this service?"! I was not referring to the service today but rather the service in the past. I use to get the bus at the Burlington Hotel on the 17:50 from town. Many a time I was left standing there as the 84X drove past and refused to stop. I then had to make my way to Donnybrook to get an 84 which did not depart the city centre until 18:35 and arrived in Kilcoole after 20:20.

I could easily do this faster in a car, plus I was not out standing freezing waiting for a bus.

There was also the problem with the 10:15 from Kilcoole into town. Some mornings it would depart a 10:05 and so I would then have to wait for the 10:55 84 from Newcastle and did not go in through Leeson Street. So instead of being in the office for 11:15 it would be closer to 12:30!

Then there was the other trick drivers played - take their time going in from Kilcoole at 10:15 of later and transferring the passengers onto a Mountown at Belfield so they could pull straight into the shed! This happened more than once which usually resulted getting onto a car that was handing over at Donnybrook and sitting there for 5 or 10 minutes.

Believe me SickCert - I thought this had the potential to be a great service, and quite often was! But some muppets just took the pi$$ on OT or RD's and ruined it for the passengers who used it everyday.

The lads on the Bray/Delganys were grand and dependable as was the Railcar but this was all over the place - something which does not seem to have changed much from what people who still use it have said.