Bus priority on QBCs

loyatemu

Noticed this on the stillorgan road QBC but it might be applicable elsewhere.

There is a number of T-junctions where the Bus has to stop at traffic lights unnecessarily. An example is outbound at the junction with Fosters Avenue. Cars have to stop at the lights to allow traffic join the stillorgan road from foster avenue, but theres no need for the Bus to stop - it could go straight on. It's not a crossroads, the merging traffic can't use the bus lane anyway and there's no pedestrian lights.

The same goes for inbound at the junctions with Booterstown Avenue and Merrion Avenue, and there may be others. You could put plastic bollards along the bus lane at the junction to prevent any confusion.

rough illustration attached

markpb

There are quite a few places where this could be done. I would guess the bus lane would have to be physically segregated to stop traffic coming out of the T and turning right from drifting into the bus lane on the turn.

Alun

markpb wrote:

There are quite a few places where this could be done. I would guess the bus lane would have to be physically segregated to stop traffic coming out of the T and turning right from drifting into the bus lane on the turn.

Which is something people do all the time, especially on those junctions where there are two turn-right lanes. The people on the leftmost one end up having to swerve into the bus lane to avoid the planks in the rightmost lane who go straight into the left lane instead of sticking to the right one when they join the dual carriageway.

Traffic

I thought about this idea a few years back never did anything about it though, maybe you should send it to the Quality Bus Project Network Office and ask them why it cant be implemented

QBN Project Office
Floor 4 Worldcom Building Erne Street Lower Dublin 2 or
qbnoffice@dublincity.ie

markpb

Traffic wrote:

I thought about this idea a few years back never did anything about it though, maybe you should send it to the Quality Bus Project Network Office and ask them why it cant be implemented

I mailed the QBC office two weeks ago asking if they'd ever considered segregating some of the bus lanes but I haven't got a reply yet. Strange because they normally answer my mails quite quickly.

loyatemu

Alun wrote:

Which is something people do all the time, especially on those junctions where there are two turn-right lanes. The people on the leftmost one end up having to swerve into the bus lane to avoid the planks in the rightmost lane who go straight into the left lane instead of sticking to the right one when they join the dual carriageway.

physical segregation is straightforward enough - just put up a few of those anchored plastic bollards like they use on Stephens green - you'd only need them for a hundred metres on either side of the junction.

There isn't a huge amount of places where this is applicable, but with so many traffic lights on the Stillorgan Road anyway, it doesn't make sense to stop buses any more than necessary.

cast_iron

I could never really understand how this wasn't done before. I always assumed there would be safety concerns that they would be unwilling to budge on.

AlekSmart

This is a really simple and hugely beneficial suggestion.
The real question is why it has taken so long and had to come from the audience,so to speak.

One of the problems is that the N11 QBC has in the region of 17 statutory agencies each of which have to recieve due recognition for any changes mooted.
There is also a deeply ingrained belief that Bus Priority must never come at the cost of Private Motoring space in those areas where contentious decisions have to be taken.

Small nil-cost modifications such as this would enable Bus Service improvements such as the recent 145 and 84X to achieve something near true QBC results unlike the present disjointed approach which sadly typifies Official Ireland !!

Victor

Potentially you create the barrier with an armco barrier where the right-turning traffic would hit the bus. Or have the bus on some type of yield rule (not ideal).

Just make sure that cyclists and pedestrians have room and not have right-turning cars squashing them or slow cyclists holding up buses, because the bus can't move into the traffic lane.

steve-o

That lane gets plenty of use outside of bus lane hours. Would everyone be allowed to use the lane to skip the lights?

Also, while that specifc junction has no pedestrian crossing (there's a bridge), I think all the others do... when would pedestrians get to cross!

loyatemu

steve-o wrote:

That lane gets plenty of use outside of bus lane hours. Would everyone be allowed to use the lane to skip the lights?

other parts of this QBC are 24-hour. it would be more consistent to have the whole thing 24-hour. (theres already 2 car lanes, at times of low-traffic theres no need for cars to use the buslane, at times of high-traffic the lane is needed by buses.)

Also, while that specifc junction has no pedestrian crossing (there's a bridge), I think all the others do... when would pedestrians get to cross!

There isn't pedestrian lights at all the junctions - theres several bridges and elsewhere there are seperate pelican crossings.

mikedragon32

Are there any busses which turn right at the end of Foster's Avenue onto the N11? I'm thinking maybe the 17, but it's a long time since I was on that bus!

If no busses turn right, then there's no practical reason not to separate the bus lane from the other traffic.

loyatemu

even if there were - they could merge into the bus lane further along

Sarn

It would definitely have to be physically segregated. As you could have taxis or cyclists entering the bus lane/crossing to get into the cycle lane and getting sideswiped.

OTK

Good idea but most of these junctions have pedestrian lights and you can't have buses whizzing through pedestrian crossings.

markpb

OTK wrote:

Good idea but most of these junctions have pedestrian lights and you can't have buses whizzing through pedestrian crossings.

I'm guessing that pedestrians don't cross at every cycle of the lights though. The lights for the bus lane could change only when pedestrians want to cross. I'd even be in favour of them changing only to amber allowing the driver to proceed as soon as the pedestrian has crossed.

loyatemu

markpb wrote:

I'm guessing that pedestrians don't cross at every cycle of the lights though. The lights for the bus lane could change only when pedestrians want to cross. I'd even be in favour of them changing only to amber allowing the driver to proceed as soon as the pedestrian has crossed.

exactly - its not rocket science. A bit of lateral thinking and a very small amount of money and the service is improved.

Victor

markpb wrote:

I'm guessing that pedestrians don't cross at every cycle of the lights though. The lights for the bus lane could change only when pedestrians want to cross. I'd even be in favour of them changing only to amber allowing the driver to proceed as soon as the pedestrian has crossed.

If there is space (I haven't been out that direction in a while), you could introduce an additional traffic island.

markpb

Victor wrote:

If there is space (I haven't been out that direction in a while), you could introduce an additional traffic island.

I've never been to the area we're talking about

The three other places that spring to mind (Ballymun Rd / St. Pappins Road, Malahide road / Casino Park and Malahide Road / Donneycarney Rd) probably wouldn't have space for another traffic island. There are hardly any pedestrians at those places though.

Incidentally the second place I mentioned has a phase in the lights where southbound traffic can turn right across the road but the other lane cannot go straight on even though there is no conflicting movement. Sillyness.

blorg

I can see the appeal, certainly, although it would leave cyclists turning onto the N11 on the outside of the bus lane which is arguably a bit of a dangerous position. They would then have to negotiate over the bus lane later to get onto the cycle lane?

cast_iron

I'm not so sure about the traffic island idea. They may well fit, but at a squeeze.

The biggest issue I can see is what was mentioned earlier - people skipping the lights at junctions. 24 hour bus lanes would be a real nuisance out that direction. Perhaps, the coned off area would be off limits to cars at all times.

Incidentally, has the council ever been asked about this before? And a response, if applicable?

John R

cast_iron wrote:

The biggest issue I can see is what was mentioned earlier - people skipping the lights at junctions.

Cameras. It is badly needed for all the bus lanes in the city, this time of year brings all the selfish **** out. My trip home this evening took over 15 mns longer than usual due to about 20 cars blocking bus lanes at various points.

cast_iron wrote:

24 hour bus lanes would be a real nuisance out that direction.

Only to speeders and agressive fools. The N11 bus lanes were hard shoulders before being converted, there was never a legitimate use for vehicles beforehand.

It was a mistake to not make them 24 hours and they need to be altered, the more recent sections from Foxrock to Loughlinstown is 24 hour.

If there is enough traffic to make it beneficial for cars to skip queues in the bus lane then it should be reserved for buses, if the traffic is flowing then there is no need for cers to be in the bus lane anyway.

Whatever way you look at it cars have no business in those lanes.

loyatemu

John R wrote:

...Only to speeders and agressive fools. The N11 bus lanes were hard shoulders before being converted, there was never a legitimate use for vehicles beforehand.

It was a mistake to not make them 24 hours and they need to be altered, the more recent sections from Foxrock to Loughlinstown is 24 hour.

If there is enough traffic to make it beneficial for cars to skip queues in the bus lane then it should be reserved for buses, if the traffic is flowing then there is no need for cers to be in the bus lane anyway

the section between RTE and Donnybrook church actually was a traffic lane - the rest was hard shoulder though. You've right about making them 24 hour though - theres still quite heavy traffic on that road at 7pm when the bus lane ceases operating.