Road Safety Strategy 2007-2011

Victor

I am attending a workshop on this tomorrow. What do you want in?

afatbollix

cats eyes on all roads...
more sign posts saying that there is a bad corner ahead.
yellow lines to be at the side of the road..
to do the overtaking lane every 2 to 5 km.. have a overtaking lane for one way for a while and then after 2 or 5 km change it to the other side of the road ( like down in cork)

make duel carageways motor ways... ban side roads going on to duel carrageways.. perfect example is in mullingar.. how many deaths has been becasue of cars coming out of side roads.. build a bridge or tunnel and i think the money spent will save at least 5 lives...
more cameras on bus lanes.. and fine people who undertake on motorways.

get more driving testers!!!!

more signposts around busy roundabouts in dublin overhead so you know what lane to be in..

sign posts down back roads..

to fix roads once they become bad with pot holes...

OTK

Previous strategy had almost zero on education. Plenty of stuff about enforcement and engineering but nothing about education apart from making more TV ads and talks in schools. Most drivers are self-taught or taught by an unqualified random person in the local driving school. We can't drive because we never learnt and were never tested properly or at all. This has to be a reason we crash into each other so often.

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/5905-0.pdf

So could you ask when they are going to

• Require licence applicants to complete a course of instruction from a qualified instructor.
• Bring the test up to the standard of the UK (motorway driving, emergency stop etc)
• Remove the random length waiting list so that there is some chance you can do some lessons and then sit a test without waiting so long that you've emigrated or died in the meantime.

jhegarty

Driving test in a week, but if you do drive without a qualified driver your off to court

(one is no use without the other)

jmkennedyie

Thanks for the post Victor. My 2 cent...

Transformation of driving instruction/testing is a must.

How about a retest every 10 or 15 years....wouldn't have to be as big as the first test.

I personally would also like to see a dedicated plan to sort out the road signing/markings for once and for all. All of them. Everywhere. A bit like the Speed sign changeover, but not a mere one-for-one translation this time, and not just speed limit signs. At least this time it would not have to be done overnight.

If I may dive into a bit more detail...

Have we a bible that defines all allowable road signs/markings?
Does it include European/International best practice? Is it complete?
Are the people that need to know trained (formally qualified / formally certified???) on this? County Engineers, Sign manufacturers, Road designers, ...? Is there a mechanism to inform them of updates?
Are new roads formally audited against this bible before they are accepted?

Once that all sorted out, we need to audit all the road stock, and every junction, for compliance. And then fix the problems of course. This will not just help safety, it will help tourism, transport and everybody else that uses our roads.

Some little things that lead me to believe that such a system is not in place:
- nonsensical road signs as per separate thread.
- signs that say no overtaking even though centre line is still dashed
- centre line dashed even though there is not enough view of road ahead to safely overtake at speed limit of the road. (in Spain for example, drivers have learned to live by the line rather than view ahead: if it is dashed then they assume that the engineers have calculated that it is safe to overtake if they can see no traffic)
- new overhead gantry signs that duplicate the writing over every lane requiring motorists to spend extra time reading them
- signs on the side of HQDCs/motorways like "XX county council would like to wish you a safe journey and remind you to make sure that you have belted up and blah blah blah" in some *tiny* font given the speed limit. If motorists tried to read them they would cause an accident.
- lanes on the left or right that disappear off the mainline of dual carriageways without adequate notice. E.g. Lucan, Naas coming from Dublin. N4/M50 junction coming from Dublin. I don't understand why it makes sense to force traffic to change lane if they just want to keep driving ahead.
- South Side Dublin City quays are all over the shop too: 3 lanes on one side of a junction and 2 on the far side.

OK...rant over...Good luck tomorrow.

Zoney

jmkennedyie wrote:

Have we a bible that defines all allowable road signs/markings?
Does it include European/International best practice? Is it complete?
Are the people that need to know trained (formally qualified / formally certified???) on this? County Engineers, Sign manufacturers, Road designers, ...? Is there a mechanism to inform them of updates?
Are new roads formally audited against this bible before they are accepted?

There's the Traffic Signs Manual. It has road signs not in the Rules of the Road (although I can think of no earthly reason why not); although there are nevertheless additional road signs used by councils (either they or the sign manufacturers must come up with them). Also you have probably seen instances of non-standard signs - i.e. guidelines for doing a particular kind of sign haven't been followed (again, may be the council or the manufacturer, but ultimately the council's fault)

You should be able to find a copy in some public library; or a Uni library might be better (that's where I found a copy).

It has chapters on the following:

Directional Information

Motorway Signs

Other Information

Regulatory Signs

Warning Signs

Road Markings, Studs and Delineators

Signs for Roadworks (HAH - I wonder how many contractors or councils bother to use these guidelines!)

Traffic Signals

Sign Location (I don't think councils/contractors read this either)

Capt'n Midnight

converting Hard shoulders on single N roads into 2+1 roads or even 2+2 for overtaking

adjusting lane makings so that cars are directed to the left lane and more awareness and enforcement of the keep left and obstruction rules

possible introduction of US type laws where vehicles have to pull in if they are delaying traffic , more than 5 cars held up by tractors or construction vehicles etc.

driver testing
phase out of unaccompanied learner drivers
enforcement of existing unaccompanied learner driver laws

overall more enforcement, rather than new penalty points

indicators - campaign to teach Irish drivers how to use them especially at roundabouts

Lane disclipine - again educate Irish drivers. Today at the M50 / Palmerstown roundabout I saw someone dive into the left lane, in font of an already braking fuel truck and then at the Texaco garage another person unfit to drive pulled out of the garage into the path of another car in heading for the slip road who had to jam on (both ended up stopped side by side) and then the crossed over a solid white line to join the bypass.

30 kph zones at schools and more school buses / moving set down areas so people couldn't stop within 50m of a school , might stop some kid getting reversed over by an SUV

Iób

anto-t wrote:

cats eyes on all roads...
yellow lines to be at the side of the road..

I would worry that these would encourage motor vehicle drivers to travel faster and thereby increase the risk of collisions with other vehicles/pedestrians.

My suggestions:

1. Enable local authorities to decide where speed cameras should go. They should be provided in response to residents' or other requests for traffic calming. Speed cameras would be much cheaper and more effective than ramps and would not interfere with ambulances, cyclists, buses etc. as ramps do. At the moment all local authorities can do is put in ramps (and the Garda who decide where to put the cameras don't listen to residents.)

2. Change tort law to provide a presumption of liability against motor vehicle drivers when they are in collision with more vulnerable road users (trucks>cars>motorcycles>bicycles>pedestrians). This is the case in many European countries and is at the core of their road safety strategies.

3. Provide cycling training for adults and children for a nominal fee.

3b. Require completion of a cycling training course in order to apply for a driving licence.

4. Require that all safety audits on road scheme proposals carried out by local authorities or supplied to local authorities by developers be posted on the local authority websites.

jd

anto-t wrote:

.. and fine people who undertake on motorways.

...

and of course their twin brothers, the over-taking lane hoggers.

NewDubliner

Victor wrote:

I am attending a workshop on this tomorrow. What do you want in?

Change the 1998 regulation that allows cars to drive on cycle tracks?

Niall1234

1. Again, try to make as many Dual Carriageways into Motorways as possible.
2. Bring in a minimum speed on certain roads to discourage reckless overtaking.
3. Clamp down on people who accelerate when a person is trying to overtake them. This happened to me once and I nearly had a head on.
4. Be more sensible on catching speeding. 10 km/h extra on a motorway prob isn't going to cause an accident. Driving 10 km/h over the speed limit on a country road might.

afatbollix

I&#243 wrote: »

I would worry that these would encourage motor vehicle drivers to travel faster and thereby increase the risk of collisions with other vehicles/pedestrians.

so.. at least youll be able to see the road if theres a dip.. or bad camber..

anyone know why the new road from outside athlone to kinnegad is a duel carrage way??? with 100kph on it.. it is the same standered as a motorway.. even with the turns and graduents... WTF comes to mind...

Sarsfield

OTK wrote:

• Require licence applicants to complete a course of instruction from a qualified instructor.

That's top of my list.

Require an applicant to be 'signed off' by an instructor as competent to take the test, so competent drivers get their tests quickly and drivers who aren't ready don't waste an examiners time.

Capt'n Midnight

Bit late, but require all cars to show insurance disks. For foreign registered vehicles a special disk you can only get by showing your insurance cert at point of entry - you can't enter the country without valid insurance.

Could also keep track of VRT but main focus is insurance.

Alun

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Bit late, but require all cars to show insurance disks. For foreign registered vehicles a special disk you can only get by showing your insurance cert at point of entry - you can't enter the country without valid insurance.

I can imagine that going down a bomb with the legitimate tourists from all over Europe coming here for a two week holiday, not to mention what the EU would have to say about it.

Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue as a superferry with 100's of cars and trucks comes into Dublin Port from Holyhead, for example, where probably over 50% of the vehicles would not be Irish registered? No other EU country has such a scheme in place for cross border traffic, what makes Ireland so very special?

And to make it truly fair and impartial, you'd have to set up similar checkpoints at the border with NI as well .. I can see that going down like a lead balloon

Capt'n Midnight

You are not allowed drive in this country without insurance.
If I'm not mistaken you have to carry proof of insurance if you visit a foreign country so it's not as if you shouldn't have the documents with you already.

Do NI cars have to display insurance and / or tax ?
I'm assuming you can't get tax without insurance up there.

I don't feel there is much point in insisting on driving licenses though since you don't need to pass a test to drive legally in this country.

Alun

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

You are not allowed drive in this country without insurance. If I'm not mistaken you have to carry proof of insurance if you visit a foreign country so it's not as if you shouldn't have the documents with you already.

Agreed, but the point I was making was that it would be totally impractical to do this at ports of entry and would result in unacceptable delays and total and utter chaos. You'd have to stop every foreign reg car, ask for proof of insurance, check it (how?) and issue an insurance disc .. 10 minutes absolute minimum per car, I reckon. You'd be queueing for hours to get off the ferry at that rate.

Do NI cars have to display insurance and / or tax ? I'm assuming you can't get tax without insurance up there.

They, like many other countries don't have insurance 'discs'. Many countries also don't have tax 'discs' or indeed any paper adornments on their windscreens, Holland for example.

Anyway, what's this got to do with Road Safety? Having a square 'disc' of paper on their windscreen won't make anybody, Irish or foreign, drive any more safely.

Victor

Wow, this thread is number 5 on google already for Road Safety Strategy 2007-2011. This links through to more information if you guys want to make your own submissions.