Graham Geraghty gets nomination...

12-12-2006 4:55pm #1

...for FG in Meath.

Hmmmmm. As someone commented on telly lately, will he be a Jack Lynch or more a Jimmy Deenihan...

Villain · 12-12-2006 5:05pm

Have to say I wasn't impressed by him on Morning Ireland this morning, didn't come across as a very strong personality, he also didn't exactly give a list of reasons of why he choose FG.

I don't think he'll cause much of a threat to Minister Dempsey.

Heraldoffreeent · 12-12-2006 5:15pm

Yes,I heard the morning ireland thing, he said something like "i'd hope they'd vote for me no matter what party I'd join"
Graham "vote for me, for me" Geraghty me thinks

gurramok · 12-12-2006 7:53pm

Ridiculous having sports people with zero experience of how to run a country being nominated.(like Dublin GAA goalie recently)
Of course people will vote based on his pitch experience rather than on his intellectual experience

Heraldoffreeent · 13-12-2006 2:03am

Yes, although I liked Jim Glennon, who played rugby for Ireland.Thought he was bright, intelligent and brought something to the table.Bertie, however didn't!!, Now SHaughey is Junior minister and Jim is stepping down

The_Minister · 13-12-2006 11:26am

It's a cheap publicity stunt. Nothing more. He would be a waste of a seat.

Time Magazine · 13-12-2006 12:20pm

The_Minister wrote:

It's a cheap publicity stunt. Nothing more. He would be a waste of a seat.

Have to agree tbh.

pigeonbutler · 13-12-2006 3:40pm

Thanks to a boundary change he's got a few thousand Westmeath voters in that constituency. Considering his history on the football pitch I'd say the tally figures for those boxes will be amusing, especially the more GAA orientated parishes.

Kojak · 13-12-2006 4:07pm

The_Minister wrote:

It's a cheap publicity stunt. Nothing more. He would be a waste of a seat.

I'd say so alright - although there was rumour that the GPA were going to run candidates in the next general election, so this is probably not the last we'll hear about former GAA stars running for Dáil Éireann - sure the Mayo football manager John O'Mahoney is also standing for Fine Gael in next year's elections.

Having well known, and popular candiates, is all well and good but if they don't have the experience/know-how what use are they??

TomMc · 13-12-2006 4:24pm

Kojak wrote:

I'd say so alright - although there was rumour that the GPA were going to run candidates in the next general election, so this is probably not the last we'll hear about former GAA stars running for Dáil Éireann - sure the Mayo football manager John O'Mahoney is also standing for Fine Gael in next year's elections.

Having well known, and popular candiates, is all well and good but if they don't have the experience/know-how what use are they??

Yes, FG would want to be really desperate to go down that road.

Visionless, methinks.

Surprise, surprise ... He was a publican more recently ... must be something in the water !

Het-Field · 15-12-2006 8:20pm

gurramok wrote:

Ridiculous having sports people with zero experience of how to run a country being nominated.(like Dublin GAA goalie recently)
Of course people will vote based on his pitch experience rather than on his intellectual experience

In all fairness to John O Leary he has been very active in Finna Fail for a long time. Former Dub star Barney Rock was very active in the formative days of the Progressive Democrats, but was unsuccessful. However, Graham doesnt strike me az somebody who is too well clued in to politics. Its clearly Fine Gael trying to upstage O Leary. Sorry, but he wont get anywhere

bilko · 16-12-2006 10:37pm

Het-Field wrote:

In all fairness to John O Leary he has been very active in Finna Fail for a long time. Former Dub star Barney Rock was very active in the formative days of the Progressive Democrats, but was unsuccessful. However, Graham doesnt strike me az somebody who is too well clued in to politics. Its clearly Fine Gael trying to upstage O Leary. Sorry, but he wont get anywhere

"In all fairness" ...to FF/PD.How kind - from the UCD PD person!

Het-Field · 17-12-2006 12:24am

bilko wrote:

"In all fairness" ...to FF/PD.How kind - from the UCD PD person!

I said its in fairness to John O Leary. I also used Rock as an example as he was involved since the early years. The reason im saying about Graham, is because FG are a populist party, who will do anything for a vote. Eg when they get Meaths full forward to run. On your bike mate

Time Magazine · 17-12-2006 12:33am

Het-Field wrote:

The reason im saying about Graham, is because FG are a populist party, who will do anything for a vote.

Ha. That's rich.

The_Minister · 17-12-2006 12:38am

Ibid wrote:

Ha. That's rich.

That link requires a login. Please post the relevant section of the article.
I assume that the article refers to Colm O'Gorman. If so, I must point out that the man is smart and dedicated, and has experience in dealing with public affairs.

Time Magazine · 17-12-2006 12:48am

No. It's the link that Gandalf posted in the BUPA thread, that the government asked BUPA to delay the announcement of their pull-out. It was scheduled for the day after the Budget.

Every party that has been in power has been populist.

The_Minister · 17-12-2006 1:48am

Ah. Gotcha. I always viewed that kind of behaviour as a necessay bi-product of democracy. Only dictators can afford not to be populist.

bilko · 17-12-2006 6:20pm

Het-Field wrote:

I said its in fairness to John O Leary. I also used Rock as an example as he was involved since the early years. The reason im saying about Graham, is because FG are a populist party, who will do anything for a vote. Eg when they get Meaths full forward to run. On your bike mate

"On your bike mate"?You've obviously been watching too many re-runs of Minder,circa1979!Anyway,you only serve to re-enforce my point with your continous sycophancy towards all people/things FF - like all PDs.Your party has only one role in Irish politics,namely Fianna Fail's lackey.

DMC · 17-12-2006 6:43pm

Observing this in the locality, it hasnt gone down too well within the local FG brigade...

http://www.unison.ie/meath_chronicle/stories.php3?ca=38&si=1740482&issue_id=14997

Meath Chronicle 16/12/06 wrote:

Privately, unease that running three candidates was “a high-risk strategy” and disappointment that members attending had not been called upon to vote was voiced by some members.
Deputy Phil Hogan, the national FG director of organisation, said the party had approached Mr Geraghty in November after its research showed that the former Meath All-Ireland winning football captain, as a candidate, could get additional votes for the party from people who otherwise would not support FG.

I didn't know FG were auditioning for You're a Star! The electorate will recognise this as a celebrity candidate.

They really are clutching at straws. Meath West will be divvied out for each candidate to set up stump in; Geraghty will be in Athboy/Kells, Damien English in Navan and Peter Higgins Trim/the Westmeath bit. Damien English will be hurt by this, as a former student in Kells CS, his agent was from the locality, he picked up votes in the area from John Farrelly at the last election.

There aren't two seats for FG in this constituency. The only seat that Graham Geraghty will feasibly get is his fellow candidates, as shown the last time round.

Meath West should be FF 2, FG 1 at the election, a case of as-you-were.

irish_bob · 20-12-2006 9:03pm

this would seem to be a pretty desperete move by fine gael
it would be akin to wayne rooney running for the conservatives in the uk
what surprised me most about this news was not that a former GAA star would run for office but that fine gael would be the party graeme chose
i thought fine gael were the party of nice boys
gerragthy sure aint one of them , he would be more at home at sinn fein i would have thought
i heard it through the grapevine that the descison was made at head office in dublin and that the local fine gael heads were none too happy about it
bottom of the barell stuff me thinks

ballooba · 22-12-2006 9:30pm

Fianna Fail pulls crack like this the whole time. I find it a bit hypocritical for FF/PD supporters to criticise this move.

Personally I'm not that fond of Geraghty, I think he's a bit of a knacker, but that's besides the point.

The_Minister · 22-12-2006 10:12pm

ballooba wrote:

Fianna Fail pulls crack like this the whole time. I find it a bit hypocritical for FF/PD supporters to criticise this move.

Who are you referring to? The only other celebrity that I can think of was well-known journalist Mairead McGuinness, but that was FG as well. Running over the government candidates in my head, I really don't know who you mean.

ballooba · 22-12-2006 10:40pm

Conor Lenihan - Formerly of 98fm and IRN
Tony Dempsey - Wexford GAA
Jim Glennon - Former Rugby International
Seamus Kirk - Louth GAA
GV Wright - Dublin GAA
Sir Anthony O'Reilly - Former Rugby International

That's just current TDs.

The_Minister · 23-12-2006 2:23am

Conor Lenihan - Formerly of 98fm and IRN
He was well-qualified and comes from one of the most politically saturated families around. He would have run regardless, and I really doubt that the journalism had much to do with it. With his credentials he was always guarenteed a nomination.
Tony Dempsey - Wexford GAA
He's not what you'd call famous though, is he.
Jim Glennon - Former Rugby International
He had long retired when they chose him. Over twenty years if I'm not mistaken.
Seamus Kirk - Louth GAA
He was out of the game a good few years when he got in. He had some kind of injury.
GV Wright - Dublin GAA
I can't find anything on him, but I thought that he had some political interest before being approached? Again, I thought that he had set up some kind of business and had a low profile when they ran him.
Sir Anthony O'Reilly - Former Rugby International
If we are thinking of the same person, then he isn't a TD.

My point is that all these candidates had long finished and dissapeared off the circuit when they were named. Geraghty is stilll very-high profile, and in my opinion that is the only reason that he is getting the nomination, as opposed to the others who all had other things going in their favour.

ballooba · 23-12-2006 3:54pm

The_Minister wrote:

Tony Dempsey - Wexford GAA
He's not what you'd call famous though, is he.

I'm not from Wexford so I couldn't tell you how well known he is locally. As FF always say, all politics is local. People outside of Graham Geraghty's constituency can't vote for him either after all.

The_Minister wrote:

Jim Glennon - Former Rugby International
He had long retired when they chose him. Over twenty years if I'm not mistaken.

Doesn't matter how long he had retired if people associated him with rugby rather than his politics.

The_Minister wrote:

Seamus Kirk - Louth GAA
He was out of the game a good few years when he got in. He had some kind of injury.

See above.

The_Minister wrote:

GV Wright - Dublin GAA
I can't find anything on him, but I thought that he had some political interest before being approached? Again, I thought that he had set up some kind of business and had a low profile when they ran him.

I doubt he had a low profile locally. He was a Dublin GAA player, Irish National Basketball Coach and International Basketball player.

The_Minister wrote:

Sir Anthony O'Reilly - Former Rugby International
If we are thinking of the same person, then he isn't a TD.

My bad. I was thinking of someone else who is neither Tony O'Reilly nor a FF Senator.

The_Minister wrote:

My point is that all these candidates had long finished and dissapeared off the circuit when they were named. Geraghty is stilll very-high profile, and in my opinion that is the only reason that he is getting the nomination, as opposed to the others who all had other things going in their favour.

You can still be high profile whether your still on the circuit or not.

The_Minister · 23-12-2006 4:02pm

ballooba wrote:

As FF always say, all politics is local.

That is petty beyond belief. That saying is worldwide, and is known internationally. A google search of that exact phrase gives 252,000 hits. IIRC it was an american who first said it.

ballooba wrote:

You can still be high profile whether your still on the circuit or not.

People's reputations die out pretty quickly. My point is that if they were being picked only because they were sportsmen, then they would have chosen them when they were still active.

ballooba · 23-12-2006 4:04pm

Sunday Independent Jan 25th 2004.

Fianna Fail courts Packie to save party
ADVERTISEMENT

FIANNA Fail is trying to convince former soccer international and one of Donegal's most loved sons, Packie Bonner, to run for the party in the next June's European Election. Party organisers are making every effort to prevent what is expected to be Fianna Fail's worst ever showing in European elections. The Fianna Fail party machine has started to try and attract high-profile, popular candidates to run in areas where it is believed it is in danger of losing seats in the European Parliament.

Packie Bonner is being courted by Fianna Fail for the new constituency of North West. The former international goalkeeper has been to the Dail on a number of occasions over the last few months and is said to have met Minister Eamon O Cuiv who has responsibility for that area. However, news of the parachute candidate being brought in is said to have upset the local party and, in particular, supporters of Sean O Neachtain. O Neachtain was co-opted when Pat 'the' Cope Gallagher won a seat in the last general election and resigned from Europe to take up his appointment as a Junior Minister.

Packie Bonner has said on local radio that he would not be running in the European election as he is too busy. However, local party sources believe that Bonner will take up the challenge and are confident that he would win the Fianna Fail seat. There is a real concern that O Neachtain has failed to register with the voters and would find it difficult to hold on to the seat.

North West will be one of the most closely contested European constituencies with a number of women candidates likely to share the spoils.

Dana will face a serious challenge from Madeleine Taylor-Quinn who is likely to be selected at next Sunday's Fine Gael convention in the Sligo Park Hotel. Fine Gael's sitting European Member Joe McCartin is resigning at the end of the current parliament and Taylor-Quinn is seen as Fine Gael's best chance of retaining this seat. Based in Kilrush, County Clare, Taylor-Quinn is regarded as a strong candidate and has begun her campaign for next June's European Election.

Another woman who is likely to run as an independent is Marian Harkin who polled over 40,000 votes in the last European elections and was elected to the Dail in the last general election. Her strong performance in the general election compared with Dana's poor outing indicates that it is likely to be Harkin who will take the seat next June.

Jimmy Guerin Fianna Fail courts Packie to save party
ADVERTISEMENT

FIANNA Fail is trying to convince former soccer international and one of Donegal's most loved sons, Packie Bonner, to run for the party in the next June's European Election. Party organisers are making every effort to prevent what is expected to be Fianna Fail's worst ever showing in European elections. The Fianna Fail party machine has started to try and attract high-profile, popular candidates to run in areas where it is believed it is in danger of losing seats in the European Parliament.

Packie Bonner is being courted by Fianna Fail for the new constituency of North West. The former international goalkeeper has been to the Dail on a number of occasions over the last few months and is said to have met Minister Eamon O Cuiv who has responsibility for that area. However, news of the parachute candidate being brought in is said to have upset the local party and, in particular, supporters of Sean O Neachtain. O Neachtain was co-opted when Pat 'the' Cope Gallagher won a seat in the last general election and resigned from Europe to take up his appointment as a Junior Minister.

Packie Bonner has said on local radio that he would not be running in the European election as he is too busy. However, local party sources believe that Bonner will take up the challenge and are confident that he would win the Fianna Fail seat. There is a real concern that O Neachtain has failed to register with the voters and would find it difficult to hold on to the seat.

North West will be one of the most closely contested European constituencies with a number of women candidates likely to share the spoils.

Dana will face a serious challenge from Madeleine Taylor-Quinn who is likely to be selected at next Sunday's Fine Gael convention in the Sligo Park Hotel. Fine Gael's sitting European Member Joe McCartin is resigning at the end of the current parliament and Taylor-Quinn is seen as Fine Gael's best chance of retaining this seat. Based in Kilrush, County Clare, Taylor-Quinn is regarded as a strong candidate and has begun her campaign for next June's European Election.

Another woman who is likely to run as an independent is Marian Harkin who polled over 40,000 votes in the last European elections and was elected to the Dail in the last general election. Her strong performance in the general election compared with Dana's poor outing indicates that it is likely to be Harkin who will take the seat next June.

Jimmy Guerin

ballooba · 23-12-2006 4:08pm

Bray People 21 Dec 2006

Behan added to Fianna Fail ticket

Bray's Cllr. Joe Behan said he is 'elated' to have been selected to stand alongside Minister Dick Roche and Arklow's Pat Fitzgerald in contesting the next General Election for Fianna Fail.

Speaking shortly after he received the phone call from Fianna Fail party secretary Sean Dorgan at lunchtime on Friday, Cllr. Behan said he was 'absolutely thrilled' that he had been chosen for the party ticket.

'I suppose I feel a certain amount of sympathy for Pat Doran and Pat Casey, but having said that, I'm delighted,'he said.

County Wicklow's Fianna Fail selection race has proved to be controversial since the announcement last May that interviews with candidates would be held in lieu of a selection convention.

Last month's revelation that rugby star Shane Byrne had turned down an approach by the party to run added to the controversy, angering many local party members.

ballooba · 23-12-2006 4:25pm

The_Minister wrote:

That is petty beyond belief. That saying is worldwide, and is known internationally. A google search of that exact phrase gives 252,000 hits. IIRC it was an american who first said it.

Most of the time I hear it, it's from FF supporters.

Anyway, I have posted up evidence of high profile FF parachutes candidates above. FF were unsuccessful in wooing mullet man, but the fact is that they tried.

Let's not forget John O'Leary, a Former Dublin GAA Captain replacing a former Ireland Rugby International. The fact that Jim Glennon is being replaced by John O'Leary would seem to some that their sporting prowess would have at least something to do with their selection for that constituency.

ballooba · 24-12-2006 7:06pm

It's gone awful quiet in here all of a sudden.

The_Minister · 26-12-2006 1:20am

ballooba wrote:

It's gone awful quiet in here all of a sudden.

Ffs Its Christmas, I have friends and family, and have been busy over the last while. Sometimes people with lives are away from the internet for a day or two. I was busy, and didn't have time to research what you were saying (I still haven't but I've made a half-assed effort:p ) In future, give people time before you start to gloat.

Before I go onto the candidate issue, I want to get one thing out of the way, because it's bugging me. You seem to think that the whole idea of "all politics is local" has something to do with FF. It doesn't. I've heard people of all parties say it, because it is true. It isn't something shameful at all. It may mean that local interests are represented over national interests, but that is, representative democracy. It's how Ireland works, for all parties, from Fine Gael to Fianna Fail, from Labour to the Progressive Democrats, and while we make shake our heads at it, it means that the ordinary people of Ireland can lobby their TDs and its in the TDs interests to listen. To try and pretend that it is a "fault" in only one party is hubris. If they're in the Dail, then unless they were a (ironically enough) celebrity candidate, then they did a lot of favours.
There is no party in Ireland that doesn't follow this. If FG were in, they would have messed up Decentralisation too, they just would have given the jobs to FG villages.
I remember feeling sickened long ago, when seeing a full-page advertisement in a local newspaper for a fine gael candidate, and being sickened as I saw that it consisted of a photo of an old man, with a long quote about how the candidate had moved his forms through the health service administration quickly (nothing illegal as far as I could tell, it had just gotten stuck in the works). When I saw it, I thought (like you) that that sort of thing was low and sycophantic. However, years later, I realised that there was little wrong with it. The man had little choice, and he was showing the people that he had the abilities that they liked. And, that TD is now one of the Fine Gael'ers that I have the most respect for, because once elected, he showed that he was a good TD, and has been strong on local issues, and national ones. I don't look down on him for doing that ad, and neither should anyone.

Your example is Packie Bonner, and tbh I haven't heard of him since I was a lot smaller. This is the first time he's come across my radar in years. But, you are correct, Bonner would count as a parachute candidate, as I asked my brother (better at sport than me:) ) who says that Bonner hasn't done much, but makes the occasional public appearence.
I still disagree with you when you said that "Fianna Fail pulls crack like this the whole time". The two sides seem about even when it comes to this, but I would still regard Geraghty's recruitment as worse, because tbh, I heard that he wasn't the brightest. It's one thing to put someone in the Dail due to fame, but to put an incompetant in is a disgrace.

The_Minister.

EDIT: I need to counter you on this as well:

ballooba wrote:

The fact that Jim Glennon is being replaced by John O'Leary would seem to some that their sporting prowess would have at least something to do with their selection for that constituency

I can see how you made this mistake, but a little bit of thought and you'll realise that the facts are lying to you.
Who mainly runs for election? Middle class people from private schools.
What do private schools tend to pride themselves on? Sporting achievement.
So who gets to be the best at sport in the school? The bold, the resourceful, the ambitious and the determined.
What kind of person runs for election? Someone who is bold, resourceful, ambitious and determined.
There is no conspiracy, its just that those with the right qualities for politics, also have the right qualities for sports.

ballooba · 26-12-2006 3:30pm

The_Minister wrote:

Ffs Its Christmas, I have friends and family, and have been busy over the last while. Sometimes people with lives are away from the internet for a day or two. I was busy, and didn't have time to research what you were saying (I still haven't but I've made a half-assed effort:p ) In future, give people time before you start to gloat.

I was referring to the fact that I posted that 4 minutes after your post. I also checked if you had been back online before 'gloating' and you had. If you want to claim you have a life then I won't try and argue that.

The_Minister wrote:

Before I go onto the candidate issue, I want to get one thing out of the way, because it's bugging me. You seem to think that the whole idea of "all politics is local" has something to do with FF. It doesn't. I've heard people of all parties say it, because it is true. It isn't something shameful at all.

I'm not saying it's shameful. I was just pointing out that the man's high profile locally is just as important as Graham Geraghty's in his consituency. I think your trying the usual FF tactic of fudging the issue, in this case by focussing on semantics.

The_Minister wrote:

Your example is Packie Bonner, and tbh I haven't heard of him since I was a lot smaller. This is the first time he's come across my radar in years. But, you are correct, Bonner would count as a parachute candidate, as I asked my brother (better at sport than me:) ) who says that Bonner hasn't done much, but makes the occasional public appearence.

You can't get much higher profile than Packie Bonner in Irish sporting terms. He was on the 1990 World Cup team, the first Irish team to qualify for that competition. I don't even watch football and I know who he is.

My other example, which you seem to have chose to ignore was Shane Byrne AKA Mullet Man who had a very high profile on the Irish team for years.

The_Minister wrote:

I still disagree with you when you said that "Fianna Fail pulls crack like this the whole time". The two sides seem about even when it comes to this, but I would still regard Geraghty's recruitment as worse, because tbh, I heard that he wasn't the brightest. It's one thing to put someone in the Dail due to fame, but to put an incompetant in is a disgrace..

Again, your fudging the issue. The original point was that this was a desperate move by FG. I have shown that FF are just as bad if not worse for this kind of behaviour.

The_Minister wrote:

I can see how you made this mistake, but a little bit of thought and you'll realise that the facts are lying to you.
Who mainly runs for election? Middle class people from private schools.
What do private schools tend to pride themselves on? Sporting achievement.
So who gets to be the best at sport in the school? The bold, the resourceful, the ambitious and the determined.
What kind of person runs for election? Someone who is bold, resourceful, ambitious and determined.
There is no conspiracy, its just that those with the right qualities for politics, also have the right qualities for sports.

Again, fudging the issue.

The_Minister · 27-12-2006 12:21am

ballooba wrote:

I was referring to the fact that I posted that 4 minutes after your post. I also checked if you had been back online before 'gloating' and you had. If you want to claim you have a life then I won't try and argue that.

I have my profile set to automatically log into boards when I click on the site, and while I had visited boards during that time, that was only for about five minutes at a time to check the economics forum, and the UCD forum. I was not on the internet long enough to research what you were saying, so I did not do you the discourtesy of a half-assed glib answer. Your replies down below show that you are incapable of the same.

ballooba wrote:

I'm not saying it's shameful. I was just pointing out that the man's high profile locally is just as important as Graham Geraghty's in his consituency. I think your trying the usual FF tactic of fudging the issue, in this case by focussing on semantics.

Firstly, do not insinuate that I am in Fianna Fail again, or that I am a Fianna Fail supporter. I am a PD supporter (if anything) and have said so before. If I had my choice, and numbers were irrelevant, then the PDs would be in with Fine Gael, not Fianna Fail. But, that isn't possible at the moment, and it's probably a good thing with Enda "damp tissue" Kenny at the helm. I'm not defending FF because I like them, but because you are being unfair to them.
Secondly, I don't think that Bonner's current reputation even approaches Geraghty's. Like you, I don't follow sports, but I know which one I have heard more of in the last few years. Considering that the entire arguement rests on whether or not certain candidates are being chosen because they are celebrities, the relevant fame of those individuals is important and referring to it is not fudging anything.

ballooba wrote:

You can't get much higher profile than Packie Bonner in Irish sporting terms. He was on the 1990 World Cup team, the first Irish team to qualify for that competition. I don't even watch football and I know who he is.

I'm not saying that he was not famous, I'm saying that he is not famous. He hasn't been high-profile in recent years, as opposed to Geraghty who has. There is a difference (in my eyes) in offering someone who used to be famous and has since moved on to other things, a chance to run, and offering that same chance to someone who has done nothing but be famous).

ballooba wrote:

My other example, which you seem to have chose to ignore was Shane Byrne AKA Mullet Man who had a very high profile on the Irish team for years.

I genuinely missed the second person.
I had never heard of him so I did a little google, and then asked by very sporty family. They said that "he wasn't very good" and was "kinda" famous. This obiously wasn't good enough for my purposes so I enquired further using (again) google. The general consensus seems to be that he is a pathetic has-been clinging onto a talent that many doubt that he had in the first place.
But, all this is irrelevant, as FF have denied ever approaching him, and so has Shane Byrne himself (http://www.unison.ie/bray_people/stories.php3?ca=38&si=1713311&issue_id=14816)

ballooba wrote:

Again, your fudging the issue. The original point was that this was a desperate move by FG. I have shown that FF are just as bad if not worse for this kind of behaviour.

There is no fudge here. Answer my point.

ballooba wrote:

Again, fudging the issue.

That is my explanation, and I think that it is accurate, and true. There is no need to shout fudge at a point like that, indeed, you seem obsessed with the stuff. If you disagree rebut it, and explain why you think that I am wrong.

ballooba · 27-12-2006 7:21pm

The_Minister wrote:

Firstly, do not insinuate that I am in Fianna Fail again, or that I am a Fianna Fail supporter. I am a PD supporter (if anything) and have said so before. If I had my choice, and numbers were irrelevant, then the PDs would be in with Fine Gael, not Fianna Fail. But, that isn't possible at the moment, and it's probably a good thing with Enda "damp tissue" Kenny at the helm. I'm not defending FF because I like them, but because you are being unfair to them.

FF and PD are the same thing to me. Michael McDowell and Mary Harney are just as good at fudging as any of the FF ministers. I have an equally low opinion of McDowell, if not lower because he represents my constituency, as I do of Ahern.

I'm only on this thread to defend against someone inferring that FG have reached a low by putting forward a candidate like Graham Geraghty. I feel I have been quite fair in doing so and in highlighting the FF parachute candidates.

The_Minister wrote:

I'm not saying that he was not famous, I'm saying that he is not famous. He hasn't been high-profile in recent years, as opposed to Geraghty who has. There is a difference (in my eyes) in offering someone who used to be famous and has since moved on to other things, a chance to run, and offering that same chance to someone who has done nothing but be famous).

Packie Bonner is not being asked to run in this election, that was in 2003 when he was working with the Irish Squad as far as I can remember. My point earlier was that it doesn't matter how long ago the person had a high profile if people in their constituency still remember them for their sporting achievements. What if FF decided to run Ronnie Delaney for the Dail? Would you still claim that he isn't as high profile as Graham Geraghty?

The_Minister wrote:

Shane Byrne himself (http://www.unison.ie/bray_people/stories.php3?ca=38&si=1713311&issue_id=14816)

With regard to Shane Byrne, I do follow Irish Rugby and Shane Byrne would be one of the more recognised members of the Irish Squad. Probably on par with O'Kelly, D'Arcy, Horgan etc. but not as high profile as ROG or BOD. Let's put it this way he would be the best known rugby player in Wicklow.

That article confirms that Dick Roche did approach Byrne, formally or not. Tricky Dicky does try to fudge the issue by playing with semantics of who was there when it was formally discussed etc.

The_Minister wrote:

There is no fudge here. Answer my point.

How can you say it's worse because you think Graham Geraghty's not the brightest. What about FF trying to run Royston Brady on his profile despite the fact that he hadn't a word to say for himself.

The_Minister wrote:

That is my explanation, and I think that it is accurate, and true. There is no need to shout fudge at a point like that, indeed, you seem obsessed with the stuff. If you disagree rebut it, and explain why you think that I am wrong.

Because there are plenty of people in the Dail who are "bold, resourceful, ambitious and determined" who did not have the high profile of these people before enterring politics. If you look at your old clas from school, the people who were good at sports are just as likely to be unsuccessful or successful as others. Most of them did not go to private schools either. Even if they did you are painting the stereotypical picture of Blackrock and Clongowes type places.

The_Minister · 28-12-2006 2:51am

ballooba wrote:

FF and PD are the same thing to me.

That shows how little you know about politics. The PDs are nearly ideologically identical to FG, to the extent that they can be referred to as "Fine Gael Junior". There is quite alot of osmosis of membership between the parties (PDs often go to FG, and visa versa). Michael McDowell was once thought of as a future leader of Fine Gael. The two parties are so similar that they could even by considered wings of each other, with the PDs being the more "radical" wing in terms of policies (cafe bars, and taxi deregulation).

ballooba wrote:

Michael McDowell and Mary Harney are just as good at fudging as any of the FF ministers. I have an equally low opinion of McDowell, if not lower because he represents my constituency, as I do of Ahern.

"Fudging", a term you over- and mis-use, is a skill I have seen all politicians use, from those in Sinn Fein to those in the Greens. "Fudging" is not a crime of one party, and if you somehow think that it is, then obviously Fine Gael has covered you in so much fudge that you can see nothing else. All politicians are fudgers.
That being said, I have always found McDowell to be (while sometimes disagreeable), honest, and willing to give straight answers. After a speech that he gave in UCD, the daughter of the McBriarty's raised her hand to ask a question. He could have ignored her, and saved himself a difficult question, but instead he pointed at her and took her question first. I've often thought that if he wasn't so blunt, and danced a bit more like the other politicians, then he wouldn't be so disliked.

ballooba wrote:

I'm only on this thread to defend against someone inferring that FG have reached a low by putting forward a candidate like Graham Geraghty. I feel I have been quite fair in doing so and in highlighting the FF parachute candidates.

And, I have disagreed with you on most of the candidates highlighted, as most of them would not qualify as being arachute candidates IMO. Geraghty is still the worst example that I have seen with nothing to recommend him except his fame, unlike the other candidates, who all have had some redeeming features. While I mentioned Maraid McGuinness, I never slated her, because while she was a "parachute" candidate in the technical sense, she is very capable, and fairly intelligent, so the country was done no diservice by running her in the election.

ballooba wrote:

Packie Bonner is not being asked to run in this election, that was in 2003 when he was working with the Irish Squad as far as I can remember. My point earlier was that it doesn't matter how long ago the person had a high profile if people in their constituency still remember them for their sporting achievements. What if FF decided to run Ronnie Delaney for the Dail? Would you still claim that he isn't as high profile as Graham Geraghty?

If you told people that Bonner was signing autographs in the local park, how many would go? Not too many, unless they had nothing to do. If you said that Graham Garaghty was there (Since reading this thread, i've started to hear his name everywhere), far more people would go because he is a current star. It's not if they know the name vaugely that is the problem, it's if there is a "star quality" attached to that person, if they are sill in the media once a fortnight. I've heard of Ronnie Delaney (sorta), but I still had to wiki him. It said that he was born in 1935, and his last achievement was in 1956. I doubt that he is in the shape to run, and I don't think that he counts.

ballooba wrote:

With regard to Shane Byrne, I do follow Irish Rugby and Shane Byrne would be one of the more recognised members of the Irish Squad. Probably on par with O'Kelly, D'Arcy, Horgan etc. but not as high profile as ROG or BOD. Let's put it this way he would be the best known rugby player in Wicklow.

I'll be honest and say that I don't know. All I know of him is what I have been told, and that wasn't complimentary. I was told that he never had the skill to be famous, and was still chasing the talent that he tought that he had. If this isn't true, and he s one of the best players, then I apologise. But, I still don't think that FF approached him.

ballooba wrote:

That article confirms that Dick Roche did approach Byrne, formally or not. Tricky Dicky does try to fudge the issue by playing with semantics of who was there when it was formally discussed etc.

Like Fine Gael approached Eddie Hobbes?
It's hardly semantics. If I was chatting to a minister for anything and we were discussing politics, I would expect them to ask if I had ever considered going into politics. I wouldn't consider it an offer of a nomination. There as nothing to suggest in either of their accounts that it was anything more than a polite question.

ballooba wrote:

How can you say it's worse because you think Graham Geraghty's not the brightest. What about FF trying to run Royston Brady on his profile despite the fact that he hadn't a word to say for himself.

My opinion of Roysten Brady was that he is a muppet, and that FF (quite rightly)hung him out to dry at the European elections. However, credit where credit is due. He raised the office of the Dublin mayor in the eyes of many people, and for many people he was the first Dublin mayor that they could name (just as I typed that, I realised that I don't know who is currently mayor).

ballooba wrote:

Because there are plenty of people in the Dail who are "bold, resourceful, ambitious and determined" who did not have the high profile of these people before enterring politics. If you look at your old class from school, the people who were good at sports are just as likely to be unsuccessful or successful as others. Most of them did not go to private schools either. Even if they did you are painting the stereotypical picture of Blackrock and Clongowes type places.

I can't find the figures now, and the boards blackout is looming, but the last time I checked, most TDs went to private schools.
Those who participated as the captain of sports are more likely to succeed, as they are more determined. I'm not saying that all TDs will have excelled in sports, but it is natural that many would have.

28-12-2006 12:12pm

ballooba wrote:

FF and PD are the same thing to me.

:eek:

ballooba wrote:

I'm only on this thread to defend against someone inferring that FG have reached a low by putting forward a candidate like Graham Geraghty.

As the OP, I can say that was not the point at all. Merely that FG were putting Geraghty on the ticket. I never suggested that FF have not done so - though your own list bizarrely suggests one of the Lenihans was a parachute candidate and you omit Olive Braiden! Heck I even referred to Jack Lynch in the post, he won quite a few GAA medals in his time and went on to lead both FF and the country.

Accordingly your defence of FG is based on your misunderstanding of the thread.

ballooba wrote:

What if FF decided to run Ronnie Delaney for the Dail?

Like the pun.

ballooba · 29-12-2006 12:59am

The_Minister wrote:

That being said, I have always found McDowell to be (while sometimes disagreeable), honest, and willing to give straight answers....

People forgot very quickly that Michael McDowell spoke on the introduction the EUs brand of PATRIOT Act in Irish. I didn't like it and I will be remembering it when I fill out my ballot paper in Ranelagh Multidenominational N.S. in March. He wasn't so straight that day.

The_Minister wrote:

I've heard of Ronnie Delaney (sorta), but I still had to wiki him. It said that he was born in 1935, and his last achievement was in 1956. I doubt that he is in the shape to run, and I don't think that he counts.

Ronnie Delaney was brought out on the pitch for the last rugby international in Landsdowne Road. They didn't need to say who he was, the whole place applauded him. His olympic medal may be fifty years old but people would quickly remember him and vote for him if he was put up for election.

The_Minister wrote:

My opinion of Roysten Brady was that he is a muppet, and that FF (quite rightly)hung him out to dry at the European elections. However, credit where credit is due. He raised the office of the Dublin mayor in the eyes of many people, and for many people he was the first Dublin mayor that they could name (just as I typed that, I realised that I don't know who is currently mayor). .

Quite right he was a muppet. Isn't 'Muppet' the word he used to describe his council colleagues. He raised the profile of Dublin mayor's office for the wrong reasons. He wanted to be the David Beckham of politics or something. He made a show of FF.

ballooba · 29-12-2006 1:03am

Deleted User wrote:

As the OP, I can say that was not the point at all. Merely that FG were putting Geraghty on the ticket.

That was your point. Several others made the point that FG was a populist party etc etc.

Bilko for one.

The_Minister · 30-12-2006 8:05pm

ballooba wrote:

People forgot very quickly that Michael McDowell spoke on the introduction the EUs brand of PATRIOT Act in Irish. I didn't like it and I will be remembering it when I fill out my ballot paper in Ranelagh Multidenominational N.S. in March. He wasn't so straight that day.

There is a huge difference between that act and the Patriot Act. Don't try to confuse them.
I remember that happening. If memory serves there were several fluent TDs in the Dail that day (so he wasn't going to get away with anything), and he had been under great pressure to start using Irish, as figures had been released showing that Irish was not used in the Dail. I think he himself was personally highlighted.

ballooba wrote:

Ronnie Delaney was brought out on the pitch for the last rugby international in Landsdowne Road. They didn't need to say who he was, the whole place applauded him. His olympic medal may be fifty years old but people would quickly remember him and vote for him if he was put up for election.

If he has done nothing worthwhile since then, nothing that would give him extra skills for the Dail, then he would be a parachute candidate.

ballooba wrote:

Quite right he was a muppet. Isn't 'Muppet' the word he used to describe his council colleagues. He raised the profile of Dublin mayor's office for the wrong reasons. He wanted to be the David Beckham of politics or something. He made a show of FF.

It was the first time in many years that everyone knew who the mayor of Dublin was, and to be fair to him, while he had more problems than normal, he did more then the usual as mayor.
I found his criticism of his collegues to be quite apt.

Graham Geraghty gets nomination...

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