''MMA ruining TKD!"

Tim_Murphy

http://www.taekwondo-ameris.com/darcy_article.htm

Bit of a strange article IMO. Thoughts anyone?

Clive

Very strange indeed, since TKD itself is a "quick-fix" solution to the problem of creating a Korean art, and has none of the tradition he feels is so important.

yomchi

Ah good old JD. I'll read it all tomorrow when I have time. But beware of people who stand punching walls for a past time.

'ahh...wall..NOT hit back...'

gymrabbit

It sounds like a guy has a hero. His hero created something that he himself has dedicated himself too. As a result, he has lost the ability to be objective about himself, his martial art or his hero.

I find it hard to empathise with people who think their particular martial art "has it all" or is a "complete system". This fellow seems to think that to your TKD base you can add some boxing and some grappling and have "everything". I mean, in theory, this is fine. If he trains like an MMA club but he gives everything korean names and they were uniforms that's fine by me. If they do TKD the way most people do TKD but he's added a pattern that has an armlock in it, they haven't added grappling to their system, they're just fooling themselves.

However, I can understand how people who have spent 20 years training in a certain way, have realised that comparitively speaking, it isn't a ultra-effective self-defense realistic fighting martial art want to cling to it and defend it and not just accept it's all been, from one perspective futile.

john kavanagh

I was actually the first instructor to introduce grappling into Ireland.

what a stupid statement. wrestling and judo were in this country long before he 'introduced grappling' :rolleyes:

Tim_Murphy

It thought that was a bit odd too.

In fairness to them, AIMAA probably were the first TKD group to start doing some grappling, although as far as I know it isn't really a big part of most clubs. I remember going to the seminar John did down in Limerick, which Ger healy orgainised back in the day. Seems like a long time ago!

dudara

Wow, he's a wee bit in love with Master Cho isn't he?

Personally, MMA isn't very much for me. I prefer TKD, but that's me. And I don't think MMA is ruining TKD. The INTA for one is booming in Ireland, on the back of some good recent publicity. There's room enough for everyone, and to knock someone else's method of training just strikes me as taking a cheap shot.

Tim_Murphy

Wow, he's a wee bit in love with Master Cho isn't he?

That's kind of a given for anyone in AIMAA IMO. It always appears that way anyway. I went to their first world championships and it seemed very very cultish. Probably even more than the ITF and General Choi, and that's saying something!

Personally, MMA isn't very much for me. I prefer TKD, but that's me. And I don't think MMA is ruining TKD

This is just my guess, but I think one of the main reason he is saying could well be because he is losing instructors from his association due to MMA. I could be way off though.

The INTA for one is booming in Ireland, on the back of some good recent publicity. There's room enough for everyone, and to knock someone else's method of training just strikes me as taking a cheap shot.

I agree. TKD will always do well IMO, however I do think as time goes on it will lose more and more people to MMA.

Cake Fiend

I must have missed something, are there squads of MMA guys randomly bursting into TKD schools and nicking all the students or wha? An aggressive leaflet campaign perhaps?

He's not making it very clear how what one bunch of people do in sports halls around the country makes a bit of difference to what another bunch of people do in other sports halls around the country

Millionaire

Slighty off topic...

A old Karate guy told me back in the 1950s, wrestling was the hot MA of the time. and many people were into it. Then Karate came along in the 60s, and with all the mytical asian BS, that became the next hot thinig.

Its amazing how practical things like wrestling, were forgotten for many years, in favour of hitting thin air all night long.

Black Swan

John Darcy professes his loyalty to Grandmaster Cho throughout the article, but fails to adequately support his argument that MMA was ruining TKD. I also think that the picture of him punching a wall was cheezy.

buck65

gymrabbit wrote:

, it isn't a ultra-effective self-defense realistic fighting martial art want to cling to it and defend it and not just accept it's all been, from one perspective futile.

Obviously gymrabbit I can't let that slip: surely TKD isn't a futile self defence art?
Like the previous posters there is room for MMA and TKD and BJJ and whatever else floats your boat in today's world - variety is the spice of life
I guess he's maybe peevesd that there isn't any obvious tradition in MMA such as bowing - yes sirs-etc.
I actually enjoy that side of TKD but thats just me .
Live and let live.

bella1

john kavanagh wrote:

what a stupid statement. wrestling and judo were in this country long before he 'introduced grappling' :rolleyes:

i started doing judo in 1979 is this not a form of grappling.? there has been alot of wrestling and judo clubs around for a long time.to say he was the first to bring grappling here is mad.also around 99/2000 there was a club on the northside were jk dave roche andy ryan trained .they did grappling.

gymrabbit

buck65 wrote:

Obviously gymrabbit I can't let that slip: surely TKD isn't a futile self defence art?
Like the previous posters there is room for MMA and TKD and BJJ and whatever else floats your boat in today's world - variety is the spice of life
I guess he's maybe peevesd that there isn't any obvious tradition in MMA such as bowing - yes sirs-etc.
I actually enjoy that side of TKD but thats just me .
Live and let live.

Sorry, not to make this thread go around in circles but my personal opinion is compared to typical MMA training, typical TKD training is a futile attempt at improving self-defense. I have many reasons for thinking this, however, you'll disagree with almost all of them so we'll just accept that.

yomchi

I agree. TKD will always do well IMO, however I do think as time goes on it will lose more and more people to MMA.

Not only MMA but more functional styles like BJJ, Thai, western boxing, wrestling etc.
This is why TKD needs to move with the times. However I don't think it is in the position to do so.

Baggio...

Just sounds like a case of sour grapes to me...

A lot of these guys are living back in the 70s and 80s. Still clinging on to the whole traditional side of things - when they were still revered as superior beings.

MMA, RBSD and Self-Protection has just been the wake up call that Martial Arts badly needed.

Dragan

As someone who works in for a team that is attached to a marketing department I find that article to be genius, to be honest. The references of "tradition", "family", "structure", "loyalty" etc all associated with TKD, while MMA is put across as this bright new distraction to whisk the kids away from the people who truly hold them dear.

If you think about certain neative conotations that MMA competitions have in the eyes of Joe Public, and you have a parent who is searching the web doing some research because there kid wants to take up an art then the article is genius on every level. The simply fact is that MMA is growing, and fast. UFC, Pride, Cage Rage etc are all available to us on television , MMA fighters are showing up in sitcoms ( Couture and others in "King of Queens" ) , Nike ads ( Arlovski in the "Hurt" ad ) and films ( Crocop, Bas Rutten, Chuck etc ).

When on product ( forgive the momentary marketing speak ) has been elevated in the public eye and is taking some of your customer base, then all you can do is highlight the differences between you and them, making you appear the better choice to the people who make the decision. I personally do not know that many people who get into TKD after the age of about 16. So you target the parents.

Finally, a word on tradition. Everything starts somewhere. All arts, if you go back far enough, start with someone kicking/punching someone else and giving it a name. How do we know, in 1000 years time, people will not speak with awe of the "glorious day, when Telia Tuli went down to a kick in the teeth from Gerard Gordeau" or when "the magnificent Kazunari Murakami tapped John Dixon with the armbar"?

The simple fact is that time and viewpoint can lead to "tradition"….for me, personally, I am more excited about being around when those traditions are being set.

yomchi

Dragan wrote:

As someone who works in for a team that is attached to a marketing department I find that article to be genius, to be honest. The references of "tradition", "family", "structure", "loyalty" etc all associated with TKD, while MMA is put across as this bright new distraction to whisk the kids away from the people who truly hold them dear.

If you think about certain neative conotations that MMA competitions have in the eyes of Joe Public, and you have a parent who is searching the web doing some research because there kid wants to take up an art then the article is genius on every level. The simply fact is that MMA is growing, and fast. UFC, Pride, Cage Rage etc are all available to us on television , MMA fighters are showing up in sitcoms ( Couture and others in "King of Queens" ) , Nike ads ( Arlovski in the "Hurt" ad ) and films ( Crocop, Bas Rutten, Chuck etc ).

When on product ( forgive the momentary marketing speak ) has been elevated in the public eye and is taking some of your customer base, then all you can do is highlight the differences between you and them, making you appear the better choice to the people who make the decision. I personally do not know that many people who get into TKD after the age of about 16. So you target the parents.

Finally, a word on tradition. Everything starts somewhere. All arts, if you go back far enough, start with someone kicking/punching someone else and giving it a name. How do we know, in 1000 years time, people will not speak with awe of the "glorious day, when Telia Tuli went down to a kick in the teeth from Gerard Gordeau" or when "the magnificent Kazunari Murakami tapped John Dixon with the armbar"?

The simple fact is that time and viewpoint can lead to "tradition"….for me, personally, I am more excited about being around when those traditions are being set.

Nice observations man!

Geek Nose

People who have dedicated their time and/or lives to the pattern-based striking arts like Karate, TKD, etc, have a chip on their shoulder because when the UFC started holding full-contact MMA fights, a lot of these martial arts were shown up as being far inferior/effective than the grappling arts like BJJ, Greco Roman wrestling & Judo. That said, Kick-boxing seems to have been able to stand up as a competitior to the grappling arts.
And since that realisation started happening, fight sports have evolved to incorporate the best aspects of grappling, strking, & submission, to become MMA - which is, by it's very nature, the ultimtae fighting technique. It's only natural they would try to defend their chosen art. And I can't say I've ever seen a TKD guy win a UFC title or event.
I got as far as a Green belt in the TKD centre on Exchequer street, but since I started watching the UFC events about 7 years ago (rented form Laser video library), I realised that grappling was far superior, so I took up MMA in Killester (now moved to Baldoyle) with Andy Ryan & co. It's clearly a more rounded fighting technique, and the training is literally 5 times tougher than a TKD class ever was (and that includes Gerry Martin's TKD classes, which were a lot more cardio based). Dicipline is good, but there are too many traditions & patterns in TKD for my liking. I prefer my training to be productive & practical.

Each to his own though...

Dyr

Geek Nose wrote:

And I can't say I've ever seen a TKD guy win a UFC title or event.

Wasnt yer man Mark Weir a TKD dude

Pro. F

buck65 wrote:

I can't let that slip: surely TKD isn't a futile self defence art?
Like the previous posters there is room for MMA and TKD and BJJ and whatever else floats your boat in today's world - variety is the spice of life

Search for Muay Thai vs Tae Kwon Do on youtube.com (I'm on a dial up connection so I don't have time to post a link to a specific clip.)
Since TKD is firstly a striking art then TKD fighters should be able to compete with MT fighters but they can't.

I do agree with you that there is room in the world for lots of different types of activity. John Darcy seems to have a problem with MMA though.

Everybody wants the quick fix. They don’t want to put in the work.

Laugh at the idea that someone training MMA, or any full contact combat sport, do it because they want to do less work:D :mad:

john kavanagh

Bambi wrote:

Wasnt yer man Mark Weir a TKD dude

past tense being the important point

marks training now incorporates boxing, wrestling and jits. plus he is an absolute freak athlete. i think the point above was that the vast majority of tkd schools in ireland train in a manner that would never prepare a competitor for a MMA or even full contact striking (ala thai style) bout. however ring of truth 6 on Feb 17th with MMA and Ultimate kickboxing rule bouts on if anybody wants to prove otherwise

another example would be Zelg Galesic who i think is the most devasting striker in MMA in the UK. he absoluted destroyed mark on sat night (view it here) so if a tkd person wanted to delude themselves about the effectiveness of tkd in mma they could cite him as an example....but of course you'd have to ignore the fact he now trains thai, wrestling and bjj with Trojan Team. plus he's just that 'freak athlete' that occurs every now and then that would be a good fighter regardless of what they train!

Michael O Leary

Millionaire wrote:

A old Karate guy told me back in the 1950s,

How old are you Gerry?

Michael O'Leary
www.iewto.org

Roper

My ego can't help but let me think that somehow, even in the smallest way, I might be one of the causes of that article...

buck65

john kavanagh wrote:

past tense being the important point

the vast majority of tkd schools in ireland train in a manner that would never prepare a competitor for a MMA or even full contact striking (ala thai style) bout.

John
just an aside , competed in an open (striking) tournament yesterday where the hitting was absolutely full contact ! ,still very bruised and sore from it , obviously sparring in training is lighter but get a couple of lads in a ring (tkd karate kickboxing mma all represented) and semi contact goes out the window!!
Anyway I believe that all styles are important and can learn from each other once I get good at this TKd i'd love to try grappling.

Unpossible

then TKD fighters should be able to compete with MT fighters but they can't

Your probably talking about that TKD guy who turned up in the finnish Muai Thai championships and got laughed out of the place when he got his ass handed to him.
I understand a lot of the TKD schools wont train as intensly as the Thai schools, but I reckon it depends on the rules & fighter too. Put a Thai boxer into a ring with TKD rules (no kicking bellow the belt, no elbows or knees etc) and see if its still so easy for him to get that knockout

Geek Nose

Pro. F wrote:

Search for Muay Thai vs Tae Kwon Do on youtube.com (I'm on a dial up connection so I don't have time to post a link to a specific clip.)
Since TKD is firstly a striking art then TKD fighters should be able to compete with MT fighters but they can't.

Agreed. The TKD dude gets his a*s handed to him. That's why I left TKD....when I realised that most of the patterns & dicipline is pointless in a real fight situation - if anything, it gives you a false sense of confidence: you think you can handle yourself, but you'd get your ass handed to you by any Muay Thai fighter, Kickboxer, or grappler....and most athletic street fighters/brawlers for that matter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk7O8ELJDvU


edit: and again! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsuioSpkE_s

yomchi

Comparing Muay Thai and Taekwon-Do is a no brainer. Firstly Taekwon-Do (ITF) does not train for full contact, does not use conditioning like MT, does not spend rounds on rounds whacking heavy bags. It is a semi and light contact sport. It would be like comparing fencing to duelling with a live fire arm

Put a Thai boxer into a ring with TKD rules (no kicking bellow the belt, no elbows or knees etc) and see if its still so easy for him to get that knockout

Too right he'd get his knock out. Again its down to the training system. Unfortunately he'd probably get disqualified if the rules were strictly light contact.

My ego can't help but let me think that somehow, even in the smallest way, I might be one of the causes of that article

You and Master McQuillan!

Black Swan

Tim_Murphy wrote:

TKD will always do well IMO, however I do think as time goes on it will lose more and more people to MMA.

Our Grand Master just returned from Kukkiwon to report that TKD is growing in numbers world wide. They think that becoming an Olympic sport helped to spread it to many countries. He also reported that there are now over one million students of TKD in the USA.

mark.leonard

TKD growing in numbers does not mean that it ISN'T losing people to MMA, I really doubt they calculated the attrition rate. As Tim said TKD will always get students as at the end of the day its a lot of fun to do.

I do think that the likes of a sport oriented Art like TKD serves as a good bridge to full contact pursuits, I know that personally, I never would have started MMA had I not had my TKD training; before I started TKD the idea of fighting someone full contact would have been a massive step, after TKD the step is a lot smaller!

buck65

Jon,
If muay thai is so superior to TKD surely us Tkd students should be learning from this and train and spar more forcibly?

mark.leonard

buck65 wrote:

Jon,
If muay thai is so superior to TKD surely us Tkd students should be learning from this and train and spar more forcibly?

Not really, you TKD guys are not training for reality you are trainign for sport, that has a set of rules that your training supports. If you trained like a Thai fighter then you would suck as a TKD competitor

bella1

come on guys if you enjoy what your doing and your doing it for sport.bjj judo mma tkd thai just train hard and have a good time.

Dyr

Young people today, they go to college and in many cases they gain a better education than their mother and father. Does this mean they don’t need their mother and father any more? It’s the same way that we as martial artist need our masters and our grandmasters.

I never had a grandmaster or even a master, I feel like oliver twist now

scuttery1

"...I remember we took a Christmas vacation to the Bahamas and we were walking together when someone approached us and got down on his knees in front of Grandmaster Cho. He said ‘Sir, I have all your books and videos. It is such an honour to meet you’, at that moment I had to pinch myself to remember the company I was in..."
Eeeep! filing this under unhealthy

Bambi wrote:

I never had a grandmaster or even a master, I feel like oliver twist now

Now all the Fagin references make sense! Anyway yer from ballyer so the artful dodger could probably take lessons from you:)

Roper

Hey,
As TKD goes, AIMAA style is tough, more akin to kickboxing than ITF TKD. John Darcy himself is a gent, he and I wouldn't agree (obviously) when it comes to a lot about martial arts, but he was the best TKD instructor I ever came across and if I were ever to go back to it, I'd train with him. He's trained a lot of guys who've fought full contact and done well, advocates boxing in addition to TKD training, and his classes were very, very tough. While you might disagree with the opinions he expresses in the article, I just thought a bit of background would be in order.

That said, I disagree totally with the article, but thats my opinion and I'm as entitled to that as he is to his. Is MMA ruining TKD? No, I don't think so. Is MMA placing TKD in its proper context? I think so.

yomchi

buck65 wrote:

Jon,
If muay thai is so superior to TKD surely us Tkd students should be learning from this and train and spar more forcibly?

Yes I am one of few people with the ITF in Canada who is supporting our sport to go full contact. Choi Jung Hwa has already put togther a full contact circuit within the ITF on a semi pro bases.

As Mark has said, we train for a sport with a different set of rules. We are semi and light contact, Muay Thai is not. Therefore for developing power Thai has the upper hand.
It must be strange for other TKD students to read my posts as I teach the stuff. However the more you understand your art, the more you know its limits - like any art. Taekwon-Do is great for many many things - full contact it is not though.

Pro. F

Just a point- I don't want to appear like I'm slagging TKD. I think that it has a lot to offer as a sport; it's very accessible and appears to be a lot of fun. imo, the opportunity it provides for a large portion of the population to compete in a safe environment using physical skills is very important. But imo it isn't useful as an art for self defence purposes, I first said this in this thread because buck65 raised the question.

So,

Unpossible wrote:

Your probably talking about that TKD guy who turned up in the finnish Muai Thai championships and got laughed out of the place when he got his ass handed to him.

That's one but there's much more than just one piece of video evidence.

Unpossible wrote:

I understand a lot of the TKD schools wont train as intensly as the Thai schools, but I reckon it depends on the rules & fighter too. Put a Thai boxer into a ring with TKD rules (no kicking bellow the belt, no elbows or knees etc) and see if its still so easy for him to get that knockout

imo, he would still have a good chance of getting the knock out using just body and head kicks - even without punches on top of no leg kicks, elbows, knees - if the fight was long enough and allowed continuous (ie not stopping after every hit) full contact.
People who advocate MT over TKD are not saying training MT is good for winning in TKD rules but that MT training is far more effective for fighting in the striking range than TKD training.

buck65 wrote:

just an aside , competed in an open (striking) tournament yesterday where the hitting was absolutely full contact ! ,still very bruised and sore from it , obviously sparring in training is lighter but get a couple of lads in a ring (tkd karate kickboxing mma all represented) and semi contact goes out the window!!

What were the rules of this tournament? Was it continuous full contact? What targets were allowed (head, leg, groin, etc)? What weapons were allowed (fists, elbows, knees, shins, feet, head)? What armour was worn? Were there any fighters there who train Muay Thai or western Boxing?

buck65 wrote:

If muay thai is so superior to TKD surely us Tkd students should be learning from this and train and spar more forcibly?

An important point I think- sparring in MT is not necessarily some crazy full on kill fest. 50% intensity is a common mode of sparring in MT. And gloves and shin pads are always worn in sparring (ie it's practice). But it is more realistic in what targets are allowed and what techniques are allowed and it's continuous.
I've known a few people who have changed from TKD to MT.

Jon wrote:

Yes I am one of few people with the ITF in Canada who is supporting our sport to go full contact.

Fair play to you Jon. I think anybody who moves their art forward benefits everybody in martial arts.

Dyr

scuttery1 wrote:

Now all the Fagin references make sense!

*cough* no idea what you're on about*cough*

"ya gotta nick a flowdrill or twwoo boooys/ ya gotta nick a flowdrill or two"

Unpossible

Assuming we are talking about WTF not ITF, is the problem (as you guys see it) with the training methods e.g. not enought pad work and sparring or with the art and its system e.g. the kicks just dont work

buck65

guys check out my thread WTF & ITF to merge soon? some interesting points from GM Rhee

john kavanagh

i never got the "i'll drag my style kicking and screaming into reality" crusade?

i remember when i first saw UFC1 and it became very apparent to me that my kempo training would in no way prepare me for anything resembling that i never had the idea "hmmm now if i could just change everyone's opinion in my club and get them training this way"

i recognised that they seemed to enjoy that type of training so leave them at it and instead just take up the type of training that would prepare me for it ala judo, thai, bjj etc

there's no need to re-invent the wheel. introduce realistic training methods and your 'style' will naturally evolve towards boxing/thai (in stand up striking anyway) so why bother with the effort if the answer is there already?

bella1

You Tell,em Master Kavangh

john kavanagh

maybe one day i can be 'grand master'

Roper

but then you'll never be able to walk down a beach unmolested again! Jesus what have I just said?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Geek Nose wrote:

you think you can handle yourself, but you'd get your ass handed to you by any Muay Thai fighter, Kickboxer, or grappler....and most athletic street fighters/brawlers for that matter!

Don't kid yourself!.. Three of the best lads I've worked door's with were John Darcy :eek: and two students of his, Glabal kickboxings Jimmy C** and AIMEE's Frank M** . These are genuine hard lads, excellent doormen & gentlemen too.

However thats not to say I disagree with anyone's sentiments here regarding TKD competing in MMA. But the vast majority of people training TKD do so for the love of their chosen style and not because they kid themselves they'll ever clean up in an MMA comp.

As to the articule. Well JD believe's in Grandmaster Cho, let 'em be.

Btw Roper I don't think JD was getting at you in that articule (if I read you correctly). I think he's getting at a past student of his, Eugene McQuillan, who regularly returns from the USA with various certificates promoting him to 'master', 'grandmaster' & 'professor' of various style's. I heard he's even come back recently with some M.T. rank!.

Roper

Btw Roper I don't think JD was getting at you in that articule (if I read you correctly). I think he's getting at a past student of his, Eugene McQuillan, who regularly returns from the USA with various certificates promoting him to 'master', 'grandmaster' & 'professor' of various style's. I heard he's even come back recently with some M.T. rank!.

No not getting at me directly or personally, theres been a few people who've left AIMAA over the last couple of years (as with any org), just that I left to go down the MMA route (not intentionally, it just happened that way). Theres never been any bad blood or criticism of me since I left and I'd like to think it will stay that way. I've still a lot of friends there.

I once got knocked out by Frank M!:D Like I said, there were a lot of very tough, good fighters there.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Roper wrote:

I once got knocked out by Frank M!:D Like I said, there were a lot of very tough, good fighters there.

Damn, been there me'self (almost). Frank and myself have a great story of two bottles of gin, two pairs of boxing gloves and a wife rushing downstairs thinking the house was being ransacked!. Needless to say, it was just 'high jinks' by Frank and myself, the result was a busted eye for Frank, a dead leg for me and pissing blood for a few days!.

We'll be on the rip in Swords in the next week or two, watch Crimeline for photos!.

But seriously, I've come across some great TKD lads, and JD himself was a hardly little fvcker too!..

Miles Long

Woah, just caught this now. I hate this article. I read it a while back and if you read it carefully it's pretty ambiguous as to who says what in it, i.e. JD or the interviewer, she seems to have a lot of her own thoughs written in, and whether intentionally or not (probably due to the misuse of italics) it seems like a "train of though" in JD head instead of her backround musing. I think the thing about the introduction of grappling to ireland was with respect to TKD and not to the country?

Roper wrote:

My ego can't help but let me think that somehow, even in the smallest way, I might be one of the causes of that article...

You ruined TKD, you ruiner!

yomchi

I once got knocked out by Frank M

I once broke his rib! Thankfully he was sound about it, especially that he was 2 weeks out from doing his 4th degree test :eek:

Have to agree with Mairt, both Frank and Jimmy are tough tough men.

Tim_Murphy

Using people like Mark Weir to show that TKD might work in MMA doesn’t make any sense for the reasons John (I think) gave. The really have no diea why people make the point of mentioning how some former TKDers do well in MMA. On a much smaller scale I could be used as an example of a TKD fighter in MMA, but using me as an example of someone ‘making their TKD work’ for MMA would be stupid. That is not to say my back ground in TKD didn’t play some part in me doing OK for myself in MMA

My ego can't help but let me think that somehow, even in the smallest way, I might be one of the causes of that article...

You and that Healy lad I’ll bet! LOL

If muay thai is so superior to TKD surely us Tkd students should be learning from this and train and spar more forcibly?

Why? If you train semi contact you train semi contact, if you full you train full. If you are interested in TKD sparring then MT is not the way to go. Many good habits for full contact translate to bad habits for semi contact, and vica versa.

Yes I am one of few people with the ITF in Canada who is supporting our sport to go full contact.

Can’t see how this would work TBH. No offensive but what does the average ITF instructor know about FC? There’ll be a few who will, but most wouldn’t have a clue. Whats worse, it that most properly would pretend that they do instead of getting proper FC coaches in.

Choi Jung Hwa has already put togther a full contact circuit within the ITF on a semi pro bases.

The only FC TKD I’ve seen was on the TKDpower site, pretty poor stuff TBH. The FC fights at the world champs in Korea was apparently of a similar standard.