If Jesus was never born?!

magick

Dunno if this is the right section but sure what the hell ?

Well imagine if Jesus was never born what impact would it have for the world or Europe,Ireland for that matter , the social and other effects?

petes

magick wrote:

Dunno if this is the rights section but sure what the hell ?

lol

Ciaran500

But he never was born :eek:

Zapp Brannigan

Ciaran500 wrote:

But he never was born :eek:

BLASPHEMER!!!!

User45701

If he was real then most of it was lies

1. He was actually born in the year 1 not the year 0 so if we relay are using that jebus calander system the year is actually 2005 AD not 06

2.He was not immaculate his parents ****ed

3.He had a wife or at the very least a mistress or mistman (is that a word) anyway those last 2 not as much but it is believed that jebus had a wife and th reason there is no mention of it is because it was normal back in those days it was simply the way things where so there was no need to mention he had a wife when it was standard practice for religious figures to have wifes.
It would be like saying he had 2 arms there is no need to mention it because it was so common

4. Wrong forum

Dragan

If Jesus was never made up ( or maybe he was a real guy who really thought he was helping people so ) then whoever wrote the various books, stories and pre-technology emails that made up the bible would have written about someone else.

I'd like to think it would be a guy called Sam.

DaBreno

No Jesus? Well we would need something to fill the Spiritual void. A man we would worship, whos word we hang on and whos Visage we would disaply everywhere.

Yes, Im convinced that the people of this planet would worship David Beckham.

Quoth the Saviour : "People don't think I've got the brains to be that clever"

Amen Lord.

c - 13

User45701 wrote:

It would be like saying he had 2 arms there is no need to mention it because it was so common

Sure that goes without saying, they would have had some hassle nailing him to a cross otherwise.

Ruu_Old

DaBreno wrote:

No Jesus? Well we would need something to fill the Spiritual void. A man we would worship, whos word we hang on and whos Visage we would disaply everywhere.

Yes, Im convinced that the people of this planet would worship David Beckham.

Quoth the Saviour : "People don't think I've got the brains to be that clever"

Amen Lord.

Barry Scott of course. "Look at this penny, good as new!" Deep or wha!:)

Fratton Fred

It would have had a major impact on the Irish vocabulary.:D

shane86

If there was no such thing as Christianity people on boards woiuld have to find something else to hate to think of themselves as cool and hip.

Faith

c - 13 wrote:

Sure that goes without saying, they would have had some hassle nailing him to a cross otherwise.

I lolled!

OP, many religions don't believe that Jesus ever was born, and they manage just fine!

Pantsless

We already worship Beckham

Anyway no jesus would probably mean we'd all be Muslim as there would have been no battle between the two major religions for followers in the middle ages and Islam would have spread right the way across Europe .

Anyway although it is true that Jesus did exist he certainly wasnt tall, pale and angelic... More Saddamlike .


Faith - Where would we be if jesus was never born... Muslim. Nothing else

Plug

jesus is my uncle......

Owen

Well, Christianity wouldn't have been an issue, the Romans would still have an empire, science would have been pursued, the Dark Ages wouldn't have happened, and we'd be colonising Space now.

Proof? The Romans/Greeks knew the Earth was round, that it travelled around the Sun, they understood the concepts of Hygene, basic Medicine, irrigation, sewerage, and Democracy. I was blown away when I visited the ruined city of Ephesus in Turkey to see a Hospital ruin, where mental patients were housed, and in their rooms, the Romans had running water flowing along a shelf. They believed the sound of running water would help to pacify the mental (Of course before drilling a hole in their heads).

Look at the Greek Antikythera Mechanism!

connundrum

Jesus (lol)

Nothing would change, we would have just replaced him with someone else. Someone called Paddy methinks.

Then we'd be saying 'Ah Paddy I've stubbed me toe!'

TwoShedsJackson

shane86 wrote:

If there was no such thing as Christianity people on boards woiuld have to find something else to hate to think of themselves as cool and hip.

Diddums, is someone insulting your imaginary friend???

jester77

We'd probably all still believe in Santa Claus and there would be no Paddy's Day :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Dragan

TwoShedsJackson wrote:

Diddums, is someone insulting your imaginary friend???

Got an lol out of me!

Plug

I know a man in kilkenny, claims he is jesus, usally hangs around the credit union:)

shane86

TwoShedsJackson wrote:

Diddums, is someone insulting your imaginary friend???

Im as religious as the next guy. Bar family christenings, which are always a great drink session I havent been at mass since I left school. But people embarrasing themselves on these forums with their anti religion thing is hilarious.

I dont know if i believe, its not something i ever think about.

galah

well, if he hadn't been born (I still have my doubts as to if he was, but that's a whole other can of worms not to be discussed here), a lot less people might have died/suffered unnecessarily in the name of Christianity...then again, maybe not...

But we might have been spared the horrors of Knock...;-)

Pherekydes

What would people say when something bad happened?

"Jeremy H Clarkson, my car's been broken into!"

Owen

TwoShedsJackson wrote:

Diddums, is someone insulting your imaginary friend???

No no no no, it's his invisible sky wizzard who uses talking shrubbery to convey messages of wisdom and morality. :rolleyes:

Pherekydes

galah wrote:

well, if he hadn't been born (I still have my doubts as to if he was...

Most serious historians agree that He was.

What He was is the other question for the Philosophy forum.

Firewalkwithme

As one poster has already mentioned, it seems to be historically accepted that a bloke called Jesus was born. Now, that in itself is not the question that I think the OP is trying to ask. The real question is "What if the cult of Jesus was never born?"

I think the answer is quite simple. Some people feel the need to have something / someone to follow and believe in. Usually this is for reasons of avoiding the unpalatable truth that is death is the end and there is no life after death. So if the Jesus cult had not been born, another one would have (and many others already exist).

He could have as easily been called Brian (but he's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy )

seamus

User45701 wrote:

1. He was actually born in the year 1 not the year 0 so if we relay are using that jebus calander system the year is actually 2005 AD not 06

Well, not really. This all depends on how you count doesn't it? It would make more sense that he would be born in year zero - after all, a person is only 1 after 12 months, so rounded to a whole digit* a person is zero years old for a whole year.

This is all semantics anyway, as it's generally accepted that we're already a few years off because of mathematical and translationary errors through the years.

I'm 24. I will be 24 until the day before I turn 25. It's customary to always round down when rounding an age to a whole digit. This is probably down to traditional vanity.

Rhyme

Slow coach wrote:

"Jeremy H Clarkson, my car's been broken into!"

His middle name is Charles Robert

/pedant

All hail the flying spaghetti monster, have you been touched by his noodly appendage?

Dragan

Rhyme wrote:

All hail the flying spaghetti monster, have you been touched by his noodly appendage?

Brilliant!!!

Rb

TwoShedsJackson wrote:

Diddums, is someone insulting your imaginary friend???

Hrmm, maybe you'd like to educate yourself a little?It is the best solution for ignorance afterall...

Well, Ireland was Pagan before Christianity spread, so maybe we'd all be pagan now?
Or perhaps Islam may have spread further west and we'd all be muslim now, I'm sure England would have still invaded and would have probably forced whichever religion they followed upon us anyway.

Or maybe Buddhism or Hinduism could have got here first and we'd all be buddhists or hindus.

No way of telling really, whichever religion spread the quickest had christianity not came along. I wonder how different the world would really be, had Christianity and the history created with it not happened.

As for the social effects, well have a look at the lives of muslims/buddhists/hindus, the majority of us would probably be living our lives according to one of their teachings so we'd be the same.
Look them up in Wikipedia.

lodgepole

seamus wrote:

This is all semantics anyway, as it's generally accepted that we're already a few years off because of mathematical and translationary errors through the years.

A couple of the popes have adjusted the calendars over the years also. I don't recall the details but it's something I recall digging up while writing a paper back during my leaving cert.

faceman

Er hello people Christianity was around prior to Christ's birth (Constantine formalised it into a religon) so i presume we would either be Jewish or pagan. Probably jewish tho.

However if Jesus wasnt born it would also impact the muslim faith as Jesus Christ was one of their prophets.

Still though the transitition from the Old Test to new Test is strange. in Old Test, God is vengeful and mean. But in the New Test he is quite nice and forgiving. Although this is probably down to Noah. he was not impresses with God after the floods! Noah rules!

Moses thought imho is one of the most inspiring people in the bible.

Tar.Aldarion

shane86 wrote:

Im as religious as the next guy. Bar family christenings, which are always a great drink session I havent been at mass since I left school. But people embarrasing themselves on these forums with their anti religion thing is hilarious.

You not knowing why many poeple have a stance against religion is 'hilarious'*./quote]

I dont know if i believe, its not something i ever think about.

Shock.

Don't know if I believe, that's a good one...






*Nah, just not very clever.





http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/PaulGildea/image001.jpg

shane86

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

You not knowing why many poeple have a stance against religion is 'hilarious'*./quote]


Shock.

Don't know if I believe, that's a good one...






*Nah, just not very clever.





http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/PaulGildea/image001.jpg

Like most people born post 1970 it has never had much influence on my life. Which is something to be greatful for considering Ireland before then seems to have been like a catholic version of 1980s Iran. The only time I can recall the church being negative in my life was when I was 9 and my mother forced me into doing a reading at a memorial mass for my aunt, primarily because she herself didnt want to ("ah go on, sure do you not want to show everyone what a good reader you are for your age" grr feck off). My parents werent religious in the slightest, so it was never an issue otherwise.

Tar- I do know why so many people have an anti church stance. Its the same reason so many people in Ireland had an anti Iraq war stance before it broke out. The answer being, of course, that its ubertrendy.


AApart from that, my mind is non- traumatised by memories of big wads of cash on my communion/confirmation, and hazy memories of christening 12 hour drink sessions

Kwekubo

faceman wrote:

Er hello people Christianity was around prior to Christ's birth (Constantine formalised it into a religon)

Constantine wasn't born until AD 272.

Sam Vimes

not a whole lot of difference i think. we'd probably all be jewish. maybe we'd be a bit richer

SimpleSam06

Slow coach wrote:

Most serious historians agree that He was.

What He was is the other question for the Philosophy forum.

Actually they really don't. The face of Jesus was based on the face of one of the Medicis, in a flattering portrait which caught on around the renaissance period.

There is, however, a great deal of evidence to suggest that there never was a Jesus figure, or if there was he bore little to no resemblance to the figure portrayed in the new testament. One of the most compelling pieces of evidence against his existence is the fact that the Romans, anal retentive record keepers that they were, have no records of any Jesus being crucified around that time. The name jesus in fact comes from the Greek word for "slave", or "servant" in common usage around that period.

Thats just the tip of the iceberg of the extraordinary, wild eyed, flailing, drugged to the gills, foaming at the mouth crazy millenia long train wreck that is the catholic church, but its enough to get you started.

Capt'n Midnight

Would not have made any difference.
He was a fictional character invented by St. Paul & Co.


If Constantine had lost the battle or had a different dream then Christianity would not have got top billing. So what other religions were big then as they would be the replacements. Would Muhamad and the whole muslim thing have happened, or would they have replaced all the old pagan religions across the remnants of the empire.

Hagar

Could some Mod please lock this thread? Until January would do nicely.
I'm expecting some nice Christmas presents and these fuppers are rocking the boat.

Capt'n Midnight

Hagar wrote:

Could some Mod please lock this thread? Until January would do nicely.
I'm expecting some nice Christmas presents and these fuppers are rocking the boat.

you haven't heard of "satan claus" have you ?

If you were christian to the backbone you would ignore christmas and all it's material trimmings. I still like the way the US do it and have thanksgiving and all that mushy sentimentality early to leave a clear run for the stuff.

http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/santa.html

User45701

c - 13 wrote:

Sure that goes without saying, they would have had some hassle nailing him to a cross otherwise.

Faith wrote:

I lolled!

So did I , good one C - 13

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

You not knowing why many poeple have a stance against religion is 'hilarious'*.

Another good one!

Well.. there'd be none of them Jesus, lol jokes anyways My life just wouldn't be the same!!!

TwoShedsJackson

rb_ie wrote:

Hrmm, maybe you'd like to educate yourself a little?It is the best solution for ignorance afterall...

Well, Ireland was Pagan before Christianity spread, so maybe we'd all be pagan now?
Or perhaps Islam may have spread further west and we'd all be muslim now, I'm sure England would have still invaded and would have probably forced whichever religion they followed upon us anyway.

Or maybe Buddhism or Hinduism could have got here first and we'd all be buddhists or hindus.

No way of telling really, whichever religion spread the quickest had christianity not came along. I wonder how different the world would really be, had Christianity and the history created with it not happened.

As for the social effects, well have a look at the lives of muslims/buddhists/hindus, the majority of us would probably be living our lives according to one of their teachings so we'd be the same.
Look them up in Wikipedia.

I'm reasonably well educated, I just choose to think that believing a magical invisible being created the universe out of pixie dust is a pretty stupid thing to think.

Also, telling someone to look anything up in Wikipedia is probably not the best idea, a free encyclopaedia that anyone can edit is hardly an indispensable source of fact..

Binomate

To who ever it was who said that Jesus didn't exist. That's just as bad as the people who claim he's the son of God. First of all, you can't prove a negative, it's either he did exist, or it is unknown as to whether he existed. Second of all, he did exist, there's historical proof. Third of all, the debate isn't whether or not he existed, it is whether or not he was divine, to which there is absolutely no proof as far as I'm concerned.

User45701

Binomate wrote:

To who ever it was who said that Jesus didn't exist. That's just as bad as the people who claim he's the son of God. First of all, you can't prove a negative, it's either he did exist, or it is unknown as to whether he existed. Second of all, he did exist, there's historical proof. Third of all, the debate isn't whether or not he existed, it is whether or not he was divine, to which there is absolutely no proof as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry but i dont get it
If you say there is proof he existed i assume i mean books and such? documentation?
Because those same documents say he was divine and the son of god which u say there is no proof off?

SimpleSam06

Binomate wrote:

To who ever it was who said that Jesus didn't exist.

That would be me...

Binomate wrote:

To who ever it was who said that Jesus didn't exist. That's just as bad as the people who claim he's the son of God. First of all, you can't prove a negative,

Indeed you can't, if you are dealing with mathematical constants. If you are ignorant of the rules of logic, however, you can come out with sentences not unlike the one that just came out of you. For example, I can say definitively that the sky at the moment is not green, for accepted values of green within the set of humans (h), and be perfectly capable of proving a negative.

Binomate wrote:

it's either he did exist, or it is unknown as to whether he existed.

So what you're really doing is trying to apply rules you don't understand (are ignorant of) in order to prove something that you think you do understand.

Binomate wrote:

Second of all, he did exist, there's historical proof.

Oh do tell, I always find proof fascinating. Links would be good. Ones not to brainwashed organised religious sites would be even better.

Binomate wrote:

Third of all, the debate isn't whether or not he existed, it is whether or not he was divine, to which there is absolutely no proof as far as I'm concerned.

So if it can be proven that he did not exist, that has no bearing whatsoever on the matter of his divinity, as far as you're concerned.

You must forgive me if I find that inspires a certain amount of amusement, as well as utterly undermining whatever point it was you thought you were making.

Drink up, me hearties, yo ho...

Lust4Life

That's it. I'm going to hell. I laughed too hard reading this thread.


Tar, where did you find that picture? Roffles!

Binomate

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Indeed you can't, if you are dealing with mathematical constants. If you are ignorant of the rules of logic, however, you can come out with sentences not unlike the one that just came out of you. For example, I can say definitively that the sky at the moment is not green, for accepted values of green within the set of humans (h), and be perfectly capable of proving a negative.

You're not allowing for possibilities outside your realm of knowlege. i.e. A caveman can't say that polarbears don't exist simply because he has never seen one. Polar Bears are outside his realm of knowlege. It doesn't mean that they don't exist. Same applies to your example. You can't prove that green skies don't exist simply because you've never experienced a green sky. Maybe I worded what I said originally wrong.

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Oh do tell, I always find proof fascinating. Links would be good. Ones not to brainwashed organised religious sites would be even better.

The recordings in the Bible claims he existed and that he was the son of God. The claim that he was the son of God is an irrational claim and there is no evidence to suggest that he is devine in anyway. Acknowlegeing his existance whether or not he was the son of God is not an irrational statement. Think of it as a tabloid. Lets imagine there's a story about Paris Hilton where there is some baseless claim made about her. The claim might not be true, but just because the claim isn't true, doesn't mean that she doesn't exist.

SimpleSam06 wrote:

So if it can be proven that he did not exist, that has no bearing whatsoever on the matter of his divinity, as far as you're concerned.

I'm saying that you can't prove that he didn't exist, but you can discredit the claim that he is divine.

Tar.Aldarion

Lust4Life wrote:

Tar, where did you find that picture? Roffles!

My sister sent it to me. Dunno, maybe people she knows . :P

Binomate wrote:

I'm saying that you can't prove that he didn't exist, but you can discredit the claim that he is divine.

How can you discredit one and not the other?
Contradictory.

You can't prove he existed, or if he did not. You can not prove if he was 'divine' or not.

galah

Binomate wrote:

The recordings in the Bible claims he existed and that he was the son of God. The claim that he was the son of God is an irrational claim and there is no evidence to suggest that he is devine in anyway. Acknowlegeing his existance whether or not he was the son of God is not an irrational statement. Think of it as a tabloid. Lets imagine there's a story about Paris Hilton where there is some baseless claim made about her...

Hm, if I follow that example, does that mean that all the creatures the Brothers Grimm wrote about also exist? (can't help but compare the bible to a collection of fairy tales...With the added bonus that Grimm's Fairy Tales usually have some sort of moral/social relevance to it, and are fairly coherent in the application of said morals - can't say that the bible is coherent ...)

bean

If Jesus wasnt born there would be another dominanat spiritual belief

Jesus teachings were a kind of reformation within Judasim. Like most religions Judaism stops moving with the times and teachings.

Jesus preached greater equality addresses more spiritual moral issues while keeping with general tenants of Judaism.

Catholic church "globalised" taken by Romans and other cultures. Local rituals added into the mix e.g. Easter Holy Trinity etc. Before long power and abuse of authority starts.

Reformation again begins Lutharism etc but again these too begin to fall to dogma politics etc.

People will always try to reform and get it right just to have the result hijacked again.