New Lansdowne Road Stadium

il gatto

What do we think of the plans for the new stadium? I'm not overly impressed with what I've seen so far. The capacity increase for rugby matches is only 1,000 (albeit all seated) and the design is a bit athletics track rather than fortress (if you see what I mean).
One end is basically open, as there's only one tier, and the arched, swoopy design seems to just waste potetial seating space. I think something along the lines of the wonderful Millenium Stadium would have been much better. It's got a bigger capacity, a roof, and a really imposing, intense atmospere.
I know the I.R.F.U. and the F.A.I. are footing the bill, but surely it'd be in their own interest to plan ahead and make as many tickets as possible available for big matches.
There must have been some way of getting more seats in and still get planning. I think it'd be a pity if, on moving to their brand new stadium, it's a step down after Croke Park.

connundrum

il gatto wrote:

There must have been some way of getting more seats in and still get planning. I think it'd be a pity if, on moving to their brand new stadium, it's a step down after Croke Park.

Anything will be a step down after Croke Park tbh.

I think it looks decent on paper, I was afraid that they might actually stick a running track around the pitch, which would isolate the fans a bit, but from what I can tell, the fans will be pretty much pitchside.

I like it, and I'd rather have a 'smaller' stadium which has more of a chance of being sold out for every game, instead of a bigger stadium which may have noticable pockets of empty seats.

thebaz

Looks nice to me , got to be better than what we have - progress is good.
I have a habit of following teams with old stadiums , Ireland and Everton in footbal (old decrepit Goodison Park) and Ireland in rugby !
The grey terracing in Lansdowne was a bit of an embarasment , for the Celtic Tiger !

Erin Go Brath

Looks very modern and celtic tiger. Still would prefer a much larger capacity. Surely a 60,000+ seater would be full for almost every international rugby and soccer game.

leeroybrown

Erin Go Brath wrote:

Looks very modern and celtic tiger. Still would prefer a much larger capacity. Surely a 60,000+ seater would be full for almost every international rugby and soccer game.

I'm not sure about that. I think that we would struggle to get 60,000 consistently for soccer internationals given the current state of affairs and the number of poor sides we will play. In rugby we would fill it consistently for the six nations and for the bigger off season matches. Cost wise the building and running costs would be a lot higher for a very large stadium.

Also, I remember seeing an overhead drawing of the site and the proposed stadium positioning/orientation. The current design is very 'square' from overhead and this appears to be to facilitate the very tight fit onto the site. I would suggest that any increase in capacity would be awkward to fit in.

As for the design, I think it's fairly decent. The only worry I would have is about the extremely low stand and any possible effects on atmosphere.

Goodluck2me

surely a lower stadium would project the sound better, a cauldron type thing?

il gatto

I think lower stadia with a gentle slope project the sound upwards. Steep sided stadia reflect the sound off the opposite sides and the sound reverberates. Most stadia with a good atmospere are very steep, such as the Nou Camp, the San Siro, Millenium Stadium etc.

thirdmantackle

the Westfalenstadion

best atmosphere in a ground i've ever experienced

leeroybrown

The 25,000 man terrace must give the Westfalenstadion an amazing atmosphere alright. It's funny that they can have half the proposed capacity of the redeveloped Lansdowne Road in a single terrace.

thirdmantackle

the reason the new Landsdowne won't have a terrace is because they can charge more for the seating and terracing isn't allowed for soccer matches

its a joke really, because the terraces generate far better atmosphere and the craic is great

smemon

thirdmantackle wrote:

the reason the new Landsdowne won't have a terrace is because they can charge more for the seating and terracing isn't allowed for soccer matches

its a joke really, because the terraces generate far better atmosphere and the craic is great

yes, i never understood UEFA's policy on this. They won't allow temporary seats for competitive matches, however they did for friendlies

anyhow, yes, terraces do make for a better atmosphere but lets face it - soocer is a family sport now and with all this equality stuff knocking around nowadays... everyone is entitled to their own space and be able to see the pitch.

with terraces, height was an advantage also, no kids could be taken in really.. all seating is the way to go.

50,000 is more than enough to generate an electric atmosphere - just look at celtic park on big occassions.

spanner

in my opinion this statium reminds me of the m50, absolutely no far sightedness in its design. As it stands at the moment rugby and soccer are barely able to give their supporters enough tickets, and thats even for the less important matches. They are throwing money down the drain. all the other major 6ns stadiums have much higher capacities, no where underneath 60,000. Landsowne is even packing out for standard leinster matches. Events like the U2 concert will continue to go to croker, losing revenue that could really be helped by us.

I think its far more important to have a few empty seats for certain game if it means having enough tickets for the big games. For a country that is seeing such an upsurge in rugby I think it will be a decision we will come to regret

thirdmantackle

For a country that is seeing such an upsurge in rugby I think it will be a decision we will come to regret

adult playing numbers in Ireland are actually down. there are less players now due to clubs not field a number of junior teams as they did years ago

the 'upsurge' is mainly in the coverage of the sport and success of the provinces and national side

il gatto

spanner wrote:

in my opinion this statium reminds me of the m50, absolutely no far sightedness in its design. As it stands at the moment rugby and soccer are barely able to give their supporters enough tickets, and thats even for the less important matches. They are throwing money down the drain. all the other major 6ns stadiums have much higher capacities, no where underneath 60,000. Landsowne is even packing out for standard leinster matches. Events like the U2 concert will continue to go to croker, losing revenue that could really be helped by us.

I think its far more important to have a few empty seats for certain game if it means having enough tickets for the big games. For a country that is seeing such an upsurge in rugby I think it will be a decision we will come to regret

I totally agree. We've assembled one of the best rugby teams in the world, our provincial teams are doing amazingly well (not mine though:( Good win over Montpellier tonight though:) ). Even so-so matches are getting capacity or near capacity crowds. To find a ticket for the Six Nations games in Croke Park will be an achievement, and it has a capacity of 82,500. It's short sighted to not try and facilitate bigger crowds.
Apparently, to build a bigger stadium does not mean a proportionate rise in costs. Building a 75,000 seater stadium does not mean it'll cost 50% more than a 50,000 seater. The cost of planning, placement of cranes, groundwork etc. remains fairly constant regardless of size. More materials and a longer build time add a certain amount, but not so much as to make it prohibitive. I really feel it'll be a decision which the I.R.F.U. and F.A.I. will regret in the future. Maybe they've made provision for extending with another tier. It'd be messy and would interrupt use of the stadium though. And tbh, I've not heard of any plans to do so.
And remember, the government has already spent more on the abortive Bertie Bowl than Wales spent building the Millenium Stadium. And what did we get? A big field and relocated National Laboritories:mad:

Sandwich

Is it not the expectation than in a GAA glasnost of the not too distant future that croke park will be regularly used for the biggest rugby games anyway? So no need for another 60000+ stadium in Dublin.

No official comment can be made on this given the sensitivity of the opening of CP issue with much of the GAA grassroots. But in another few years, and after soccer and rugby games have been played in CP without the end of the world occuring then we will probably start to hear the issue being voiced.

dRNk SAnTA

Sandwich wrote:

But in another few years, and after soccer and rugby games have been played in CP without the end of the world occuring then we will probably start to hear the issue being voiced.

This is a possibility and it is a good example of why it isn't neccessary to have two 80,000 seater stadiums. Croker for the huge matches and lansdowne for the rest makes a lot of sense, eventually this will come to be. Everyone would benefit.

Anyway, all these people on here who say a 50,000 seater is short sighted etc seem to be unable to grasp the essential point: THEY CAN'T FIT AN 80,000 SEATER STADIUM ON THE LANSDOWNE SITE. Stop moaning about it, please. Theres not even enough room to accomodate a GAA size pitch.

The capacity would be bigger if it wasn't for those nimby neighbours who are keeping the North Stand single tier. They expect us to feel sorry for them, as if they weren't aware there was an international stadium behind their back gardens when they bought their houses. If they never factored in how the risk of how redevelopment of lansdowne might effect the value of their homes then they just deserve what they get! :mad:

il gatto

You can't rely on Croke Park being there for rugby and soccer. It's still at the behest of the GAA. I think the rugby matches would generally be able sell most of the tickets for a larger stadium. It wouldn't have to be 80,000+. 60,000-70,000 would be big enough.
With regards to the size of the site available, The current design loses seating capacity on the basis of it's layout, not size.
The site , which will see the stadium change orientation to east/west, is actually quite big. It's worth looking at on Google Earth. There's nearly enough space for a second stadium of the current size. Surely enough for an extra 15,000 capacity instead of an extra 1,000?
Those residents associations are getting quite a hearing, considering the stadium was already there, was pretty much the same size, and as ugly as sin. You would think they would like to see that monstrosity replaced with a shiny new stadium.

spanner

dRNk SAnTA wrote:

This is a possibility and it is a good example of why it isn't neccessary to have two 80,000 seater stadiums. Croker for the huge matches and lansdowne for the rest makes a lot of sense, eventually this will come to be. Everyone would benefit.

I think you are looking into a future that is not there. The GAA will not let rugby or soccer be played there all the time, its just not going to happen, we were barely allowed this privilege why should they. Its their statium and every statium is helped with tax payers money

Anyway, all these people on here who say a 50,000 seater is short sighted etc seem to be unable to grasp the essential point: THEY CAN'T FIT AN 80,000 SEATER STADIUM ON THE LANSDOWNE SITE. Stop moaning about it, please. Theres not even enough room to accomodate a GAA size pitch.

if thats the case (and I am not sure if it is) move the statium somewhere else. I dont care if its out in abbotstown, I have to drive up anyway.
simple as that, granted it will not be the same having a out of town stadium but at leased real supporters who want to see the game without been soaked to the bone can do it. I am not even saying 80,000 but surely more that 50,000

The capacity would be bigger if it wasn't for those nimby neighbours who are keeping the North Stand single tier. They expect us to feel sorry for them, as if they weren't aware there was an international stadium behind their back gardens when they bought their houses. If they never factored in how the risk of how redevelopment of lansdowne might effect the value of their homes then they just deserve what they get! :mad:

another reason why to move it out

caster

il gatto wrote:

The site , which will see the stadium change orientation to east/west, is actually quite big. It's worth looking at on Google Earth. There's nearly enough space for a second stadium of the current size. Surely enough for an extra 15,000 capacity instead of an extra 1,000?

From what i understand, the ground is not being re-orientated to east/west but merely being slightly rotated so that it runs in a parallel direction to shelbourne road as opposed to the current way i.e. parallel to the railway track... So they are still (a bit) limited at either end of the ground.

daveirl

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thebaz

I see the wealthy Lansdowne road D4 resident groups are up in arms, and trying to scupper the plans -- its typical of the selfish world we live in, that a small wealthy connected minority , will try and halt the enjoyment for the massess -- Lansdowne road has been in use as a Football stadium for years , its not like its a brand new ugly monstrocity being dumped on them -- typical .

Eoin

thebaz wrote:

I see the wealthy Lansdowne road D4 resident groups are up in arms, and trying to scupper the plans -- its typical of the selfish world we live in, that a small wealthy connected minority , will try and halt the enjoyment for the massess -- Lansdowne road has been in use as a Football stadium for years , its not like its a brand new ugly monstrocity being dumped on them -- typical .

I think the residents around Croke Park do exactly the same thing - even over flood lights, so I don't think the Lansdowne road residents are alone.

I'm just wondering - how many of the 50,000 seats are taken up by corporate boxes? Is there a chance that there will actually be a net-loss in the amount of tickets for normal punters?

dRNk SAnTA

I think you are looking into a future that is not there. The GAA will not let rugby or soccer be played there all the time, its just not going to happen, we were barely allowed this privilege why should they. Its their statium and every statium is helped with tax payers money

Fair point, but by playing games in croker over the next 2 years, all the organisations are making bucket loads of extra money. I'm not saying the GAA will definitely open up croker in the future, but I think there is a good chance when they see the benefits. I suppose i'm suggesting that perhaps the new generation of GAA people won't let their emotions get in the way of financial sense.

spanner wrote:

granted it will not be the same having a out of town stadium but at leased real supporters who want to see the game without been soaked to the bone can do it. I am not even saying 80,000 but surely more that 50,000

Yeh, out of town stadiums are absolute disasters. I'm not saying 50,000 seater is perfect, 60,000 would be nice. If it wasn't for the neighbours perhaps thats what the capacity would be. But I think its worth forgoing capacity for the benefits of staying at lansdowne.

I think the residents around Croke Park do exactly the same thing - even over flood lights, so I don't think the Lansdowne road residents are alone.

This is true, and the croker residents fight everything which is pain in the hole, but at least lots of those houses are council etc. The people who live behind lansdowne chose to live there, they could afford to live elsewhere, they don't have any right to complain imo.

thebaz

eoin_s wrote:

I think the residents around Croke Park do exactly the same thing - even over flood lights, so I don't think the Lansdowne road residents are alone.

Fair point , its just a symptom of modern times , if you buy a house near a stadium you should expect inconveniance, and you will get house at a discount price, i.e. market rules . Then when it comes to development some of these residents make unreasonable complaints, which will penalise the massess.

spanner

daveirl wrote:

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thats a big if and 10 years is a long time. I think we will fill it more than 4 games a year. With soccer as well I am sure we will get bigger attendances than 50,000, I suppose this time next year we will see how much croker filled up even fro the small matches.


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Join a good Junior Club and you should be fine.

I dont know about that, I was not able to get tickets for some of the games last year and I am a member. Also it would be nice to sell tickets to people who are not just members of clubs

il gatto

daveirl wrote:

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Firstly, I think the I.R.F.U. (and the F.A.I.) need to have control of their own futures, and not rely on the G.A.A. deciding to open it's doors permanantly, whether it be for money or good will.
Several civil engineers and an architech who I know have voiced the opinion that building a bigger stadium would not cost proportionally more. That, and some of my own expiriences with construction, would indicate that the rise in cost would not track the rise in seat numbers directly.

As far as joining a club goes. Well, I go to the local club's matches to support but friends who are members find it very hard to get tickets for any sort of big match. North Connacht is not exactly a hotbed, and I've occasionally got tickets by other means (unwanted corporate tickets at short notice), when most club members didn't.

Sandwich

dRNk SAnTA wrote:

But I think its worth forgoing capacity for the benefits of staying at lansdowne.

Would you say the same if you were standing outside because you didnt have a ticket?