Choice of Estate

Lex Luthor

I'll be starting to look for a replacement car in the new year and we are going for an estate. Been looking at various cars over the last month or 2, including MPV's, SUV's etc., but have decided to go for an estate as #1 we don't need to go for a 4x4 and #2 I don't want to pay the premium that comes with MPV's particularly when I don't need the 7 seats.

So after many evenings of flicking through various used car websites, we are 99.99% certain we are going for a Mazda 6. Not that many of them over here to choose from and from the ones that are available, the spec is poor.

Work colleague of mine in the UK has just retired his company car from the last 3yrs which was a 6 estate TS2 spec 2.0 petrol. He loved it and never had any trouble with it. It was good to know someone who has 1st hand experience.

I think I've looked at nearly every type of car out there, so I'm failry sure the Mazda is a good choice. Read many reviews on them and they come out well.

The car will mainly be used for short school runs during the week and 200 mile trips every 2nd weekend up the M1, so not a lot of mileage I expect to put on it (est. 7000miles/annum)

Can anyone come up with something else that would make me think twice about the Mazda? No German/French cars this time around. I'm looking towards Japanese. The car has to have cruise control, which is why I'm going to be going to the UK as all the poverty spec cars here don't really have it.

junkyard

Mazda's are a good enough car in fairness. I think Subaru have a diesel now too and that would be worth looking into. What about a Ford Mondeo estate? They're hard to fault. I'd recommend you buy a diesel too btw.

peasant

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=546761

No sign of poverty spec there. Nice to drive, very comfy and still 30+ mpg ...and the seats are fantastic.

Personally, I think it's one of the best looking estates out there.

Not everybody's kettle of fish, though and depreciation is fairly steep.

crosstownk

Yeah, the Mazda is a good reliable car. But I find the interior, dash especially, quite horrible.

My choice would be a VW Passat estate or an Audi A4 Avant - not as reliable as the Mazda - but a lot more comfortable to drive, imo. But if I had the budget I'd be inclined to go for a 5 series touring.

JHMEG

Accord Tourer?

Huge load bay and a choice of 2.0 petrol and 2.2 "whispering" diesel. Leather etc is widely available.

Lex Luthor

should really have mentioned budget...I'm talking about €20-25k, so anything new is out of the question.

peasant wrote:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=546761

Personally, I think it's one of the best looking estates out there.

Personally, I didn't think a Saab estate would be in my price range for that age & mileage...good find peasant. Wife loves Saabs and would go for one of these. She's going to be driving it most of the time so she has to like it. She likes the Mazda which is one of the reasons its up there. That Saab is an auto although the ad says manual. How is the reliability on them though?

junkyard wrote:

Mazda's are a good enough car in fairness. I think Subaru have a diesel now too and that would be worth looking into. What about a Ford Mondeo estate? They're hard to fault. I'd recommend you buy a diesel too btw.

I don't like the Mondeo estate. Just back from a few days in UK and had a Mondeo as a hire car and couldn't wait to give it back. Paying an extra €2k for a diesel is probably not worth it considering the mileage, dont ya think?

Realistically, I'd like to get something 2-4yrs old with less than 40k miles, which is why I have ruled out the A4 or BMW's.

Lex Luthor

JHMEG wrote:

Accord Tourer?

Huge load bay and a choice of 2.0 petrol and 2.2 "whispering" diesel. Leather etc is widely available.

If I could find one in my budget, it would be #1. Maybe in the new year they might come down a bit.

ninty9er

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=537008

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=537884
mileage is high but it has the FASH

this worth a look too



I know I'd have that AUDI regardless of mileage as long as it's been well maintained. A Car could be banjaxed after 30 k miles or 6 months if it's not minded

TomMc

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&MakeID=29&xMakeID=29&ColourID=&xColourID=&ModelID=251&xModelID=251&Doors=&BodyID=4235&Engine_Min=&Year_Min=2004&Engine_Max=&Year_Max=2006&Price_Min=&Price_Min_integer=Minimum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&CountyID=&xCountyID=&Price_Max=&Price_Max_integer=Maximum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&BusinessID=&xBusinessID=&IsPrivateSale=&FuelID=&SortBy=MakeAsc&MaxRows=100&InsertPeriod=&ResultFormat=&submit=Find+%3E%3E

A 2.0L (Petrol) 2004/05 Subaru Legacy Estate is one of the best buys around. Quality motoring, high spec and exclusivity, for Mondeo money.

galwaytt

I hear your pain about the french/german car thing too. Pity the interiors are, indeed, fairly awful in the main.

A4 Passat - not over 45k though..........a bunch of high bills due after that mileage....

Lex Luthor

I'm running an Alfa 156 as my own car and that costs me enough in timing belt changes every 3yrs, so I don't want the expense of the timing belt change that goes with the VAG cars also.

That Subaru is one sweet motor, but I've looked at them and had to rule them out as I couldn't find one with cruise control. I honestly thought I could look for a car that didn't have it but I'll be up & down the M1 most weekends and the odd trip to Cork and for the comfort, I just want it. I wonder if the UK spec Legacys would have cruise?

TomMc

Lex Luthor wrote:

I'm running an Alfa 156 as my own car and that costs me enough in timing belt changes every 3yrs, so I don't want the expense of the timing belt change that goes with the VAG cars also.

That Subaru is one sweet motor, but I've looked at them and had to rule them out as I couldn't find one with cruise control. I honestly thought I could look for a car that didn't have it but I'll be up & down the M1 most weekends and the odd trip to Cork and for the comfort, I just want it. I wonder if the UK spec Legacys would have cruise?

AFAIK it became standard on the 2.0L from 2006 on only. Before that it was available on the 2.5's - in the UK at least. See www.allapprovedcars.com

An auto is probably a better option than a manual, where the new model Legacy is concerned. The Estate has much better residuals and far easier to sell on too, than the saloon equivalent.

Otherwise a Forester might also be worth a look for your requirements. The new vehicle of choice for the Garda traffic corps.

Lex Luthor

TomMc wrote:

AFAIK it became standard on the 2.0L from 2006 on only. Before that it was available on the 2.5's - in the UK at least. See www.allapprovedcars.com

An auto is probably a better option than a manual, where the new model Legacy is concerned. The Estate has much better residuals and far easier to sell on too, than the saloon equivalent.

Otherwise a Forester might also be worth a look for your requirements. The new vehicle of choice for the Garda traffic corps.

Been there, done that with the Forrester. Promised her last time she could choose the next car as long as I was happy with it. I suggested the Forrester but she shelved it straight away because of its looks. The Mazda was a joint choice we were both happy with.

I might scour the UK sites for some Saabs. Are they all petrol turbos? I'm not familiar with turbos but do you think short school runs 5 days a week would significantly shorten their lifesapn?

TomMc

Saab do diesels as well.

Saab's are good value second hand due to poor residuals from new, compared to their German counterparts. A lot of GM parts now, but still a Saab all the same. They are not dynamic and somewhat staid, but have a quality feel about them.

Servicing would be more expensive v's the Japs. Bigger bills down the road too. And of course larger engined cars not really suited to the school run. With a diesel you would want to be doing at least 20k + mileage per year to make it pay.

Lex Luthor

I don't really want to look at a diesel as they might make a similar petrol car out of my price range. For the mileage anyway, it doesn't make sense.

Honestjohn seems to favour them. I'll put the 9-5 as one to look out for but still yet to find anything else to rival the Mazda for spec, value for money & reliabilty.

Just been watching Top Gear and they had a Sub Legacy Estate on it. Wife told me if I can find one within our budget with the Cruise C then she'd consider one. There is a god

peasant

Saab know a thing or two about turbo engines ... after all it was them that introduced the first mainstream production car with a turbo.

Their two litre turbo is an old warhorse and has been around for ages, constantly upgraded to give the best mix of speed, torque and economy.

The two litre 150 bhp eco-turbo (the base engine in the 9-5) is a fine and durable motor. It is no race-engine, but tuned to produce low down torque that is really useful and comfy in day to day driving. Modern turbo diesels are somewhat better at this now, but still it has very nice characteristis, while giving 30-35 mpg.
It is very nicely suited for an auto box, but I don't know what the autos in the 9-5 are like ...the one in my 900 wasn't exactly up to the job.

As long as the turbo is kept well oiled (regular oil changes are a must) there will be no durability issues.

I would suggest you test drive one and make up your own mind.

peasant

another thing ...

Whatever car you choose, don't make the absence of cruise control the killer criteria. Aftermarket CC is widely available and can be fitted fairly easily to most cars. Depending on the car, 300 to 500 euro should see the job done.

greglo23

if its going to be used mostly for the school run then go for a diesel as its on short local trips that the diesel really shines. petrol engines are very slow to warm up and when running cold are very heavy on juice. diesels on the other hand are doing max mpg almost from the off so thats where you really gain. the latest saab diesel is the 1.9 jtd from fiat.
if you go for a subaru you wont be disappointed as they are almost bullet-proof. the only thing they regularly need is anti-roll bar links.

bazz26

The Mazda 6 Sport Touring model had cruise control as standard in Ireland afaik. As you said pretty rare to find but not impossible:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=541244

Lovely car though, I was looking at a Sport Touring saloon recently. Really nice car to drive too.

Lex Luthor

peasant wrote:

another thing ...

Whatever car you choose, don't make the absence of cruise control the killer criteria. Aftermarket CC is widely available and can be fitted fairly easily to most cars. Depending on the car, 300 to 500 euro should see the job done.

you can fit it? Do you just bring it to the dealer of the car manufacturer and they fit it? Really interested to know more about this as it would really broaden my search

bazz26 wrote:

The Mazda 6 Sport Touring model had cruise control as standard in Ireland afaik. As you said pretty rare to find but not impossible:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=541244

Lovely car though, I was looking at a Sport Touring saloon recently. Really nice car to drive too.

Seen this one already bazz. Outside looks immaculate, but the interior looks very very shabby. The seats are a disgrace which made me wonder if this car was well maintained

peasant

Lex Luthor wrote:

you can fit it? Do you just bring it to the dealer of the car manufacturer and they fit it? Really interested to know more about this as it would really broaden my search

Here's just one example of an aftermarket supplier with different models:
waeco

I'm sure there are plenty of others and there are probably things to take into consideration depending on the type of car you eventually go for ...but yes... in principle cruise control can be fitted to almost every car.

As for getting it fitted, I'd say a car electrics/electronics specialist might be a better bet than your dealer. Ring around a bit and I'm sure you will find one that has fitted CC before and maybe even has a system in stock and/or can advise you on what to get for your kind of car.

EDIT:
On some cars all the electronics are already CC "enabled" all you might need is a new stalk with the CC function on it and someone to "flick the switch" on the cars electrics.

greglo23

as peasant says above some modern cars are already wired for cruise and you just fit the stalk and enable it in the system software. saab are definitely one manufacturer who do this.

JHMEG

As an example. Here's a 2004 2.2 Diesel, with full leather for £11,000:
http://www.exchangeandmart.co.uk/iad/car/object?emcode=7695849&sid=1cvlFrOCy874628&pos=9&tot=16

That works out at €16.5k, and VRT is €8.4k. Comes just about within your budget.

Lex Luthor

JHMEG wrote:

As an example. Here's a 2004 2.2 Diesel, with full leather for £11,000:
http://www.exchangeandmart.co.uk/iad/car/object?emcode=7695849&sid=1cvlFrOCy874628&pos=9&tot=16

That works out at €16.5k, and VRT is €8.4k. Comes just about within your budget.

JHMEG, I'm keeping a weekly eye on Cargiant for any new additions and this was one I had book marked as a possibility.
Fantastic spec and mileage repectable at 64k miles
Friend has a '05 Accord Saloon 2.2 diesel and says its the best car he's ever had.

The cargiant way seems to be very easy to use. I have relatives in London also that can pre-check the car for me in advance, so I wouldn't waste a trip.

JHMEG

Lex Luthor wrote:

JHMEG, I'm keeping a weekly eye on Cargiant for any new additions and this was one I had book marked as a possibility.
Fantastic spec and mileage repectable at 64k miles
Friend has a '05 Accord Saloon 2.2 diesel and says its the best car he's ever had.

The cargiant way seems to be very easy to use. I have relatives in London also that can pre-check the car for me in advance, so I wouldn't waste a trip.

Well Lex all I can say is bide your time. I did and picked up a mint Accord Coupe 2.0i ES Executive with full leather interior, for half nothing! Granted it is 1998, but had only 47k miles (warranted, proved (FSH), guaranteed etc) on the clock.

JHMEG

BTW Lex, one thing I will say is that with cargiant you have to be quick off the mark. I spotted the car I wanted but by the time my buddy got there to pay the deposit (the next evening) it had been sold. So if you see something good your relations have to be very quick off the mark. I ended up buying the Accord privately.

Another place I found was Jeffries Farm Trade Centre (http://www.jftc.co.uk/) -- who have a place just outside Gatwick. I found their prices are better than cargiant but they don't have as good a stock.

ambro25

On the subject of autoboxes with CC, and while I would never recommend anything over a Scoob (long-time brand whore, here ), least of all a french car, PSA (Peugeot-Citroën) have now got this very nifty pseudo-CC on most of their manual TD cars. I wonder if it's now been adapted/licensed to other manufacturers... something worth thinking about, anyhow. (I'm on lookout for an estate Legacy myself , the Impreza's getting too small for all the family needs).

Lex Luthor

JHMEG wrote:

BTW Lex, one thing I will say is that with cargiant you have to be quick off the mark. I spotted the car I wanted but by the time my buddy got there to pay the deposit (the next evening) it had been sold.

Do you know if the online prices quoted at cargiant are fixed or if they are open to negotiating?

ambro25 wrote:

(I'm on lookout for an estate Legacy myself , the Impreza's getting too small for all the family needs).

Do you know if cruise control is available on the legacy estate over the last few years on the 2litre or if the car is possible to be adapted for it?

Do-more

Lex Luthor wrote:

Do you know if the online prices quoted at cargiant are fixed or if they are open to negotiating?

Cast in stone!! plus look out for the extra admin fees!

I know you said no germans but, how about this for a cheap prestige estate '02 asking only £3250! so will cost less than €10K landed and VRT'ed only needs minor work (no mileage listed or interior photos, but must be worth a phone call)

ambro25

Lex Luthor wrote:

Do you know if cruise control is available on the legacy estate over the last few years on the 2litre or if the car is possible to be adapted for it?

Apparently so - easy way to check

EDIT - or maybe not, had a look at some of the results and the query is both (i) pulling manuals as well as autos and (ii) a few 2.0L autos I've looked at make no mention of CC, even though it's specified as "cruise control" in the query =

pburns

I have a Sports Touring saloon. Much nicer to driver & better-looking than an Avensis. Not as nice an interior as the A4 mentioned but you'll pay a lot more for the prestige badge.

Cruise should be on Touring & Sports Touring, try to hold out for one of these. The interior gets some criticism but I like it - maybe I'm biased...

I guess estates are probably thin on the ground what with the whole MPV craze - good luck with your search!

Lex Luthor

I'm going to give Waeco a call in the UK this week and ask them what cars their system is compatible with.

pburns, as you say the good spec Mazda 6 in the estate is very hard to find but plenty in the UK especially at the dealers. 6 is due a replacement in 2007, so it might help the residuals of the current version in my favour. I'll hold out for a TS2 spec over there as it comes with the Bose stereo system and better interior

Fizman

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=515268
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=496891

My dad has had one of these for the last 2 years, great car and incredible comfort. Seem to be within your budget too.

Lex Luthor

Fizman wrote:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=515268
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=496891

My dad has had one of these for the last 2 years, great car and incredible comfort. Seem to be within your budget too.

Fiz, I'm ditching a german barge for the new estate so want to try something different. I think the 2.5TDi would be a better engine for the A6 and I'm trying to get the engine size down at the moment from a 2.5 to 2.0 or below.

Maybe the current A6 Avant in a few years time would be something I'd look at

Mc-BigE

The 2003 BMW 320d Touring 150bhp is a lovely car, 45 to 47 mpg, should be around the euro23 to 25k mark by now. But you've said several times that you don't want German, its a pity, maybe you've had a bad experience but to be honest the 320d touring and a4 avant are the best of the bunch in my biased opinion

Nobody has mentioned the Jag X-type estate yet?
Here’s one:
http://www.cargiant.co.uk/cars/detail.asp?Id=302146

If it was my money (and its not) short list of estates would be:

320d Touring sport must be 2003 or newer because of turbo issues with 2001/02 facelift cars.
Audi A4 Avant130BHP TDI
525d Touring sport if you need something bigger
Ditto with the A6 avant

Then
X-type estate, Saab 95 estate
http://www.cargiant.co.uk/cars/detail.asp?Id=311346

Avensis/Mazda 6 /Honda accord Estate. All very nice cars and good looking
And Japanese petrol’s are very economical, but the diesel wins every time.

joemc99

I am a big fan of the subarus, got a forester turbo myself, great car. How about the 2.5 legacys, on budget, cruise control, 4 wheels drive, full leather, etc......great car.

http://search.autotrader.ie/www/cars_advert?country=IE&modelexact=1&make=Subaru&model=Legacy&keywords=&min_pr=&max_pr=&min_year=2004&max_year=&source=&currency=EUR&county=north&county=1&county=2&county=17&county=8&county=9&county=27&county_list=1_2_8_9_17_27&sort=5&SUBMIT.x=19&SUBMIT.y=7&id=200649183160589

Lex Luthor

that jag is nice inside...not really a big fan of the outside

couldn't have one though as the kids would be in it 5 days a week and would wreck it

Mc-BigE

Here's another one people haven't mentioned:

http://www.cargiant.co.uk/cars/detail.asp?Id=305628#

Lex Luthor

Mc-BigE wrote:

Here's another one people haven't mentioned:

http://www.cargiant.co.uk/cars/detail.asp?Id=305628#

I had looked into these months ago but read a lot of bad reviews about them and that they had poor handling. Nice looking cars though.