Caught Speeding - Can I appeal?

Zascar

I was on the road that goes from the airport into town going south, I just passed the entrance/exit to the Port Tunnell. I was lazily cruising along chatting to my friend and I see a police car in the distance. Because I was going so slowly I didn’t think I needed to brake but the cop stood in the middle of the road. I asked, “Was I speeding?” to which he replied, “Yes, you were doing 81, it’s a 50 zone, you were miles over”. He asked for my licence and asked if it was my current address. I said no and gave him my new address. He went to his car for 2 minutes, came back, handed me my licence and said “You will receive a fine in the post for speeding, bye now” – he walked away and that was it!

I don’t have any points and I’m actually p1ssed to get caught when I thought I was crawling along! My mate who was in the car with me said that he should have showed me the gun and should have given me some sort of ticket or something, but nothing. Do you think because of this there is a chance I can get off on a technicality, or would it just be stupid to challenge it?
Comments Apprecited.

Stephen

suck it up, its only 2 points. It won't affect your insurance.

Savman

Zascar wrote:

you were doing 81, it’s a 50 zone

Er...you're actually seriously contemplating challenging this?
If you don't know what speed you were going, how could you appeal it?

kippy

Theres a fair few thread in here of a similiar topic.
You were speeding, you got caught, take the points.
Whether or not you can appeal it should be something that you talk to a solicitor about.
Kippy

johnnyrotten

I would'nt dare challenge it. You'll end up worse off.
Take it on the chin and slow down

seamus

Since you clearly have no idea what speed you were doing("crawling" is not an accurate description - doing 100kph on a motorway can sometimes feel like "crawling"), any attempt to contest this in court will fail.

The Garda does not need to show you the gun. A fine will arrive in the post, detailing the date of the offence, and the speed you were doing.

cormac_byrne

Yes contest it, the judge will listen to you, and as you have a reasonable explanation, will most likely let you off

milltown

Fuppin' hell! Not another one of these threads :rolleyes:

This mate who was in the car with you is a barrister or a solicitor I assume? Don't bother going to court. Send that legal hotshot along in your place. You'll probably get the court to pay your expenses too.

andrew1977

Slightly off thread , but i have a question

Got caught speeding mid August 06, paid the fine and received back from the fixed penalty office of receipt of payment in mid september
How long will it take for my penalty points to arrive ? is there a length of time they must issue them by or are they liable to arrive in the post at any stage in the coming months and years
Is it a seperate letter from the department of transport ?

cheer

Zascar

Jesus calm down lads it was only a question - I didn't Really think I was innocent, but it is always wrth investigating the possibility that perhaps there might be a strict procedure the have to follow.

Our man in Havana

See http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1123/motoring.html

Theres plenty of scope to appeal on that basis.

MrPudding

On what basis would you challenge it?

MrP

Spitfire666

Zascar wrote:

Jesus calm down lads it was only a question - I didn't Really think I was innocent, but it is always wrth investigating the possibility that perhaps there might be a strict procedure the have to follow.

What diff does it make if there is procedure, if you got caught it shouldnt matter. thats whats wrong with this country, people bitch and moan that not enough is being done to combat traffic problems but when they get caught they try weasel out of it.

And NO, the garda are not REQUIRED to show you the gun or give you an actual ticket. the fine comes in the post.

APM

it seems like every day a new post is popping up about someone and their speeding story.

Maybe there's enough scope for a
Motors > Speeding forum ?

Anyone else agree?

The tax man

andrew1977 wrote:

Got caught speeding mid August 06, paid the fine and received back from the fixed penalty office of receipt of payment in mid september
How long will it take for my penalty points to arrive ? is there a length of time they must issue them by or are they liable to arrive in the post at any stage in the coming months and years
Is it a seperate letter from the department of transport ?

cheer

Yeah you'll get a letter in the post giving you the good news. I got mine over a month after paying the fine.

MrPudding

We could just have a sticky. The motoring equivilent of the "bad beat" thread in the poker forum.

MrP

deman

Taken from a similar thread.

Big Nelly wrote:

Again can everyone actually get some information. The Garda do not hand you a piece of paper anymore telling you are speeding etc. Its all electronic to save them time so you dont get handed a ticket.

Big Nelly has stated this several times yet nobody seems to have read it.

lightening

Zascar wrote:

Jesus calm down lads it was only a question - I didn't Really think I was innocent, but it is always wrth investigating the possibility that perhaps there might be a strict procedure the have to follow.

Yeah! The piousness here is frightening Zascar! Its a fair enough question, sometimes its hard to know what speed you are doing. Try driving up the road again at the same time of day and see what speed you naturaly hit.

MrPudding

lightening wrote:

sometimes its hard to know what speed you are doing.

Yeah I know. If only there could be some kind of device installed in vehicles that told you how fast you were going. How handy would that be? Do you think it would catch on? I might throw a few quid into R&D and see if I can sell it to the car makers.

MrP

cast_iron

Zascar wrote:

Jesus calm down lads it was only a question - I didn't Really think I was innocent

It wasn't only a question - it was looking for a way out when you acknowledge you were in the wrong.

You're attitude is nothing short of disgusting.

Our man in Havana

I am getting sick of the holier than thou attitude of some posters, "you should take the points" and "You should bend over and take what your given by the Gardai". If they don't have the evidence or a loophole exists why shouldn't it be exploited.

The OP is allowed to use any legal methods to avoid paying. Why should he be abused for making enquiries.

If people want to discuss the ethics of such a situation they should post in PI or humanities. I support an idea for a Road Law Forum where should loopholes can be discussed in depth without the nay sayers interfering.

_Kaiser_

Bond-007 wrote:

I am getting sick of the holier than thou attitude of some posters, "you should take the points" and "You should bend over and take what your given by the Gardai". If they don't have the evidence or a loophole exists why shouldn't it be exploited.

The OP is allowed to use any legal methods to avoid paying. Why should he be abused for making enquiries.

If people want to discuss the ethics of such a situation they should post in PI or humanities. I support an idea for a Road Law Forum where should loopholes can be discussed in depth without the nay sayers interfering.

Totally agree with this. The pious and no doubt hypocritical attitude of several people on here is starting to wear a little thin.

Just because the system is (in my opinion wrongly) designed to dissuade people from taking these matters further by the threat of more points if they lose, doesn't mean that a poster shouldn't be able to ask a question here without having to put up with the "shut up and take your medicine" brigade jumping in.

Besides, the Gardai SHOULD be required to provide evidence - and his/her "word" isn't good enough in my book given the never ending reports of corruption and incompetence in the force. If Sky One can make entire shows out of chase footage in the UK, then there's no reason Garda squad cars can't be similarly outfitted and the tapes presented in court as evidence.

Spitfire666

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Totally agree with this. The pious and no doubt hypocritical attitude of several people on here is starting to wear a little thin.

Just because the system is (in my opinion wrongly) designed to dissuade people from taking these matters further by the threat of more points if they lose, doesn't mean that a poster shouldn't be able to ask a question here without having to put up with the "shut up and take your medicine" brigade jumping in.

Besides, the Gardai SHOULD be required to provide evidence - and his/her "word" isn't good enough in my book given the never ending reports of corruption and incompetence in the force. If Sky One can make entire shows out of chase footage in the UK, then there's no reason Garda squad cars can't be similarly outfitted and the tapes presented in court as evidence.

Its not about dissuading people from objecting, WHEN THEY HAVE CAUSE TO, its to stop every other person from fighting just for the hell of it even when they know they were wrong. The op knows he was over the limit and thats why he should just accept it.

CK.1

Bond-007 wrote:

I am getting sick of the holier than thou attitude of some posters, "you should take the points" and "You should bend over and take what your given by the Gardai". If they don't have the evidence or a loophole exists why shouldn't it be exploited.

Yeah, gotta agree with you there. Why are some people so unwilling to question any law or decision the authorities make??

_Kaiser_

Spitfire666 wrote:

Its not about dissuading people from objecting, WHEN THEY HAVE CAUSE TO, its to stop every other person from fighting just for the hell of it even when they know they were wrong. The op knows he was over the limit and thats why he should just accept it.

I know that strech of road. As has been reported here the Gardai regularly camp out there for their cynical "easy money" method of speed detection.

Secondly (and this applies all over the country), with all the roadworks and temporary (sometimes technically illegal) speed limits out there at the moment as the councils rush to spend their budgets before the end of the year (so as to justify the same amount next year), combined with the lax removal of these limits after the works have finished, who can tell WHAT the speed limits are on certain roads anymore.

Finally, I'd argue that the threat of additional points if you lose a case (or "for daring to question us" if you prefer) DOES in fact dissuade people from challenging the Gardai where there is insufficent evidence/Garda "power-tripping" etc. It should be up to a Judge to determine what penalty (if any) is handed down in a specific case.

Of course we should have a system where proper evidence is presented, fair and equal enforcement of the law - so that the situation of "it depends who you get" doesn't arise - and where the primary objective is improving road safety, not generating stats and revenue that look good come election time..... but then again, if this all happened it wouldn't be Ireland anymore, would it? :rolleyes:

Zascar

At last some realistic replies. Bond I have to agree, the amount of people on here that are so incredbly politically correct is totally pathetic, jumping on anyone who imply anything even the slightest bit wrong or immoral etc as if they've never done a thing wrong in their lives. This is a message board to discuss topics of all natiure. Cast_Iorn calling my attitude 'discusting' - get a life mate.

Spitfire666

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I know that strech of road. As has been reported here the Gardai regularly camp out there for their cynical "easy money" method of speed detection.

Its not like the money goes into the gardas pocket, its not like they get comission.

And in most cases they dont get to decide where a checkpoint is set up anyway. and weather its easy to catch sum1 or not, if they are breaking the law, they cant realy complain if they get caught.
Im not saying dont break the law, just accept that youve een caught if/when you do.

Seth Brundle

Spitfire666 wrote:

Its not about dissuading people from objecting, WHEN THEY HAVE CAUSE TO, its to stop every other person from fighting just for the hell of it even when they know they were wrong. The op knows he was over the limit and thats why he should just accept it.

Recently we heard of a local authority who had upped a speed limit but didn't bother their ass telling anyone. Drivers caught between the posted limit and the actual limit had their fines returned and points wiped.
Had nobody said anything this probably would have not happened.
Secondly, it is the right of everyone to challenge any accusation laid against them. If a poster requires advice on this then who are we to stop them.
Lastly, it is the right of anyone to challenge the legality of our laws. Are you happy with all of our laws? Speeding laws by their design imply that a driver is guilty until they prove their innocence, something that I am not happy with.

MrPudding

kbannon wrote:

Recently we heard of a local authority who had upped a speed limit but didn't bother their ass telling anyone. Drivers caught between the posted limit and the actual limit had their fines returned and points wiped.
Had nobody said anything this probably would have not happenedp and be counted.

kbannon wrote:

Secondly, it is the right of everyone challenge any accusation laid against them. If a poster requires advice on this then who are we to stop them.
Lastly, it is the right of anyone to challenge the legality of our laws. Are you happy with all of our laws? Speeding laws by their design imply that a driver is guilty until they prove their innocence, something that I am not happy with.

Blah blah blah. Of course people have the right to challenge accusations made against them. But seriously, before all you "right to speed and down with the man" people have an embolism, lets look at what the op has said.

Zascar wrote:

Because I was going so slowly I didn’t think I needed to brake

Believe me, this is not a pious, holier than thou attitude. He has no idea what speed he was doing, he admits this himself. This shows a lack of basic driving skill and consideration.

Zascar wrote:

and I’m actually p1ssed to get caught when I thought I was crawling along

He is pissed off at being caught when he "thought" he was crawling along. Again showing a lack of observation at the very least.

Zascar wrote:

Do you think because of this there is a chance I can get off on a technicality,

The fact that he is asking if he can get on on a technicality shows he is aware he is guilty but is looking for a way out.

Seriously folks, this is not a holier than thou thing, he was 30km/h over the posted linit with no idea how fast he was going. FFS someone that has no idea how fast they are going and is more than 50% over the posted limit should not be getting a fine and points, they should be taken off the road.

MrP

endplate

Well IMO where the op was caught sppeding the only person at risk of getting killed was the Garda with the speed gun. Again IMO you tend to drive well within your limits when your engaged in a conversation with somebody beside you. Why do we never see speed traps in the countryside where the majority of road deaths occur? There is very little chance of killing somebody on a 3 or 2 lane straight road when you are 5 - 10KPH over the limit

CK.1

Spitfire666 wrote:

Its not like the money goes into the gardas pocket, its not like they get comission.

Yeah, but they have quotas to reach (or so I'm led to believe). They get a bollocking if they are not taking in enough in fines each month.

Spitfire666 wrote:

And in most cases they dont get to decide where a checkpoint is set up anyway.

Who decides then?

Spitfire666 wrote:

and weather its easy to catch sum1 or not, if they are breaking the law, they cant realy complain if they get caught.

They can if it is an unfair law, or if a law designed to improve road safety is being used to raise cash instead of what it was intended for.

mikedragon32

APM wrote:

it seems like every day a new post is popping up about someone and their speeding story.

Maybe there's enough scope for a
Motors > Speeding forum ?

Anyone else agree?

Maybe there should be a sticky where people can whine about being caught speeding but think they shouldn't get the fine + points?

Same applies to the "I got caught driving in the Bus Lane" brigade.

Folks, if you're caught, suck it up, pay the fine, take the points and be more careful in future. As was previously mentioned, two points don't affect your insurance.

Spitfire666

CK.1 wrote:

Yeah, but they have quotas to reach (or so I'm led to believe). They get a bollocking if they are not taking in enough in fines each month.


Who decides then?


They can if it is an unfair law, or if a law designed to improve road safety is being used to raise cash instead of what it was intended for.

They DONT have quotas to meet,

The government and the comissioner decides. Normal gardai dont get much say in the matter,

And if its an unfair law, bitching that youve been caught coz you decide to break it isnt the way to deal with it. petition to get it changed.

You dont get checkpoints on narrowdark country roads BECAUSE THEY ARE narrow dark country roads. imagine soom loon flying around the bend gets pulled over, fine on its own but imagine then while the gardai are talking to the driver, loon number 2 comes flying round same bend and clean himself and the garda AND the driver who was stopped first clean off the road. whos at fault then? my geuss is people will blame the gardai for having a checkpoint in an unsafe place.

CK.1

Spitfire666 wrote:

They DONT have quotas to meet,

How do you know? It was widely reported in the media that they do

Spitfire666 wrote:

The government and the comissioner decides. Normal gardai dont get much say in the matter,

It is the wrong decision whoever is making it.

EDIT: I know a Guard and he told me that they would often decide themselves where to set up.

Spitfire666 wrote:

And if its an unfair law, bitching that youve been caught coz you decide to break it isnt the way to deal with it. petition to get it changed.

You dont get checkpoints on narrowdark country roads BECAUSE THEY ARE narrow dark country roads. imagine soom loon flying around the bend gets pulled over, fine on its own but imagine then while the gardai are talking to the driver, loon number 2 comes flying round same bend and clean himself and the garda AND the driver who was stopped first clean off the road. whos at fault then? my geuss is people will blame the gardai for having a checkpoint in an unsafe place.

They don't need a checkpoint on a narrow dark country road. All they need is a Gatso camera that photographs cars breaking the speed limit. No need to stop anybody at all. They should be concentrating their speed checks on known accident black spots instead of relatively safe motorways and dual carriageways.

Seth Brundle

Spitfire666 wrote:

They DONT have quotas to meet

CK.1 wrote:

How do you know? It was widely reported in the media that they do

It was also brought up at the AGSI conference last year when a speaker mentioned league tables and how underperforming stations risked losing staff.

cast_iron

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Besides, the Gardai SHOULD be required to provide evidence - and his/her "word" isn't good enough in my book given the never ending reports of corruption and incompetence in the force. If Sky One can make entire shows out of chase footage in the UK, then there's no reason Garda squad cars can't be similarly outfitted and the tapes presented in court as evidence.

We know the Gardai are no angels, but that is a relatively isolated incident. In any case, we're talking about a regular speed check and in this case the guy is admitting he was in the wrong.

The UK is very different to Ireland. Much denser population, 15 times our population and appears to have alot more anti-social issues than us. We would probably do well to knock a couple of Sky Ones shows out of it.

kbannon wrote:

Recently we heard of a local authority who had upped a speed limit but didn't bother their ass telling anyone. Drivers caught between the posted limit and the actual limit had their fines returned and points wiped.
Had nobody said anything this probably would have not happened.

Again, such an isolated incident it doesn't really argue so well.

kbannon wrote:

Secondly, it is the right of everyone to challenge any accusation laid against them. If a poster requires advice on this then who are we to stop them.
Lastly, it is the right of anyone to challenge the legality of our laws. Are you happy with all of our laws? Speeding laws by their design imply that a driver is guilty until they prove their innocence, something that I am not happy with.

All good and well when one thinks they may have been wrongly accused. The OP hadn't a clue what speed he was doing but knew well he was over the limit (30km/r over, in fact). That sort of attitude stinks, if you ask me.

lightening

I have never done anything wrong in my life ever.

_Kaiser_

Just to add to this, and add further weight to the point that it's about revenue not safety, I was told this morning that the Gardai were camped out on the M50 early this morning (between about 8 and 9am) just past the Blanch exit.

No doubt now some people here will attempt to defend this, and convince us that they really AREN'T just trying to rack up the statistics/money. :rolleyes:

But bear in mind that it's only the 3rd of December and it's been regularly reported here that the cops are sent out in the few days either side of the month to meet the targets.