Alfa 156 Timing Belt - Worth?

zacharius

Hey All,

Would be interested in advice, suggestions, feedback on this little problem of mine.

Had an Alfa 156 99 with around 78K on it. Timing belt was changed when I bought it a few years ago at 50K.

Last week the wife was driving it when it started making crazy noises and then stopped. Seems the timing belt has gone, and the garage where it is sitting now are quoting in the region of 2500 - 3K to fix it up. The car is only worth between 4-5K so I'm not going to put that kind of money into it for sure (was going to try move it on next year anyway ).

I just want to cut my losses and move on with it - the body etc is perfect on it and it was a damn nice car before this happened. The garage has offered 500 quid for it. Anyone have any suggestion or should I just take this and be done with it?

Seth Brundle

Did you get a price from an Alfa specialist?

bazz26

In most cases it is cheaper to find a replacement engine than rebuilt the existing one when the timing belt goes.

Did you get a second opinion and quote from a different garage? An Alfa Romeo specialist is your best bet.

testicle

About 1800-2k from a specialist.

MercMad

I'd give you €550 for it !!

Mr.Diagnostic

Hi,

Sorry for your trouble, you are not alone. There are dozens of mint 156's parked up waiting for used engines to come available. Most can be bought for €500 or less. A customer of mine (mechanic) bought one about six months ago for €400. He got an engine for it two weeks ago costing €800. The cost to repair them is usually more that they are worth.

Anan1

Ring Gerry in TI Autos, 01 8386567

redman

Anan1 wrote:

Ring Gerry in TI Autos, 01 8386567

Yes Gerrys your man!

zacharius

Thanks for all the feedback, the car is currently in an Alfa/Fiat dealer garage.

Anan1: Would that contact be interested in buying or quoting to fix it?

We have a 02 Mini Cooper plus a new 5 week old son so the nice man at the garage is wondering if we'd be interested in a Fiat Sedici - presumably knocking 500 off it for my Alfa.

Thansk again for the comments.

SonOfPerdition

zacharius wrote:

Hey All,

Would be interested in advice, suggestions, feedback on this little problem of mine.

Had an Alfa 156 99 with around 78K on it. Timing belt was changed when I bought it a few years ago at 50K.

Last week the wife was driving it when it started making crazy noises and then stopped. Seems the timing belt has gone, and the garage where it is sitting now are quoting in the region of 2500 - 3K to fix it up. The car is only worth between 4-5K so I'm not going to put that kind of money into it for sure (was going to try move it on next year anyway ).

I just want to cut my losses and move on with it - the body etc is perfect on it and it was a damn nice car before this happened. The garage has offered 500 quid for it. Anyone have any suggestion or should I just take this and be done with it?

sorry to hear that.

when you bought the car at 50k, were you told the belt had been changed or did you get it changed?

Just thinking that if you had it changed yourself and did it through a main dealer then you might be able to get some compensation from alfa considering you've only done 28K miles and it was fitted by one of their dealers.

BTW, if you had a high spec (leather interior, teledial alloys) you might be better off selling them seperate on ebay and then flogging the shell for parts.
just a thought.

zacharius

Hiso0nOfPrediction - I bought it through a used car dealer - not really a specialist in any model. He said he'd change it as it was looking a little worn and it delayed the sale a few days which I didnt mind (think it probably was more than a little worn and he was worried Id be back to him in a matter of weeks maybe).

Your point on parts is what made me think - it has those alfa alloys with the round holes in them - the body etc is perfect. I'm going to give Gerry a ring and see what he reckons.

I'll post in how the saga ends as soon as I know. Cheers

Anan1

zacharius wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback, the car is currently in an Alfa/Fiat dealer garage.

Anan1: Would that contact be interested in buying or quoting to fix it?

Gerry is an Alfa specialist, he's extremely helpful and he genuinely really likes the cars. I'd say a chat with him will help you in making your mind up what to do. By the way, the last place I would ever bring an Alfa is an Alfa/FIAT dealer garage. You may as well bring it to the zoo, at least the monkies there will f*ck with it for free.

zacharius

Anan1 wrote:

By the way, the last place I would ever bring an Alfa is an Alfa/FIAT dealer garage. You may as well bring it to the zoo, at least the monkies there will f*ck with it for free.

Very funny! Yeah I agree - it was towed and delivered before I knew what was going on - havent paid or agreed anything yet so I'll talk to Gerry (who seems really recommended by all I hear about him) and see what comes of it.

Anan1

Good luck with it in any case, they're a lovely car. My mother bought one new in 1998, it's now at 118,000 miles and still drives like a newish car. The plan was to change after 3 years, but she just won't let go of it!

Mailman

If the head is gone and it's a 2 litre I know someone who has got a head for the engine which should cut down the price of repair a bit.

I doubt very much you'll get 5K for a 99 Alfa 156, even a well specced one.

zacharius

Well I rang Gerry and yeah, he's a genuinely helpful guy alright. I told him my woes, and he was thinking more along the 1500 - 2K price mark to sort it (as opposed to 2500-3K that the dealers were estimating). He also thought the offer of 500 was a bit insulting - his daughter picked up a 01 one with no timing belt for around 1300 a while ago.

I'm going to weigh up the costs and decide whether its worth putting it into the car and driving it into the ground over the next couple of years.

PS: I'd recommend Gerry already.

zacharius

Mailman wrote:

If the head is gone and it's a 2 litre I know someone who has got a head for the engine which should cut down the price of repair a bit.

Thanks Mailman - it's a 1.8 unfortunately.

MercMad

Well I wont insult you any further with silly offers but if you do decide to sell it please let me know what you are prepared to take for it !

TJM

It's probably worth pointing out for the benefit of anyone else with a Twin Spark that the timing belt must be changed every three years / 36,000 miles whichever comes first.

[edited to add - as others have pointed out its 36k rather than 30k. Still wouldn't go over that myself though. The consensus on SportsAlfa.com is for 36k - http://www.sportsalfa.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13182]

zacharius

TJM - good point - thats what we got told by the nice dealer after the timing belt snapped.

Mailman

TJM wrote:

It's probably worth pointing out for the benefit of anyone else with a Twin Spark that the timing belt must be changed every three years / 30,000 miles whichever comes first.

I stongly disagree with this.
36K guidance by Swedish distributor.
6 years/50K miles is safe for everyone else and commonly accepted on alfa156.net as the correct interval.
72K as appears in the manual is a high risk expensive gamble.

If you are a hard driver thrashing your car then you'd need to change the belt every 10K miles.
Not only wouldn't I trust a dealer with regard to information about change interval I wouldn't trust them to do it right so wouldn't bring an Alfa anywhere near a dealer.

cjt156

36k for belts AND tensioners, these can be overlooked and may be what happened in this case. The belt may have looked ragged and been changed without the tensioner 28k miles ago. More often than not on the Twinsparks its the tensioners that seize resulting in a slipped belt, rather than a belt failue itself.
I had an auxilliary tensioner start to seize on me & the belt skipped & started to fray - scary noise was only the flapping frayed end. Had it been the cam belt; dead engine.

So 2 belts & tensioners (3 on a 2.0) every 36k miles, thats what we recommend on alfa156.net.

cjt156

And I agree on the dealership point. TI or Alasta autos in Dublin, even a decent local mechanic. Keep well away from dealerships; over priced spares-flogging monkeys. IMO.

Mailman

Agree on tensioners/pulleys - as important as the belts themselves and the reason why a dodgy 156 sounds like a diesel.
but 36K interval was sent around as a service advisory because the variators/pulleys on the earliest 156s were made from an inferior material and needed to be changed ASAP before they collapsed.

Of course a dealer isn't going to argue about shorter service intervals as it allows them to extract €1000 out of a customer each time more often.

cjt156

Dunno if I agree with you there, dude.
Diesel sound is the variator, nothing to do with tensioners. The variator actually changes the valve timing once the engine passes 3k revs or so, giving increased power at higher revs. These can wear and cause the short 5-10 second diesel rattle on startup. Once this is replaced with the upgraded part (which requires a cam belt change) the diesel sound shouldn't happen.
A tappetty sound from the top end is most likely oil starvation, not good.
A variator can rattle for years without causing any permanent damage, once a tensioner or belt goes you're nostril-deep in the sticky brown stuff.
Now don't remind me 'cos I've got to change all the aforementioned in January...

Mailman

You're correct.
Just too used to replying timing belt, pulleys/tensioners and variators because on a T.S engine if you touch one you go for all as it's a nightmare to start poking around on the side of the engine more often that you absolutely have to. Most damage anyone has claimed as a direct result of a variator is a slightly worn camshaft and then wear couldn't be definitely be attributed to variator.
Some people even recommend changing the pump at the same time even though it never breaks just becuase you'll never get a better opportunity to work on it.

Off-topic: the variable intake system on my Rover V6 is damned noisy too, it won't break anything but just shows that not only Alfa mess up sometimes.