An idea for a Boards.ie Cash League.... What do you think?

Flipper

This idea crossed my mind the other day with all the talk on here of leagues and tourneys etc... Why don't we start a cash league on here? In my opinion, cash won is the best way of "keeping score" in poker.

One way to do it would be for all the participants to open a new account on a chosen site or skin and everyone deposit the same amount (say, $50 or $100 etc). The "winner" of the league will be whomever has turned the initial deposit into the most money at the end of a predetermined period (say, 3 months etc). Players can play cash games, STT's or MTT's but when your initial deposit is gone, you're eliminated from the league. Of course, you could continue to use the site.

Obviously, there would have to be an incentive to do this... I reckon that some poker site (PPP, Boyles, GJP etc) might want to get behind it and offer some sort of 1st prize - something like a cash deposit into your account or a big live tourney buy-in (Irish Open, EPT) etc. In return, they would get a load more account sign-ups and earn a pile of rake.

Whatever site is involved would have to look after the running as they would be the only one with access to everyones' balance. Think it would be fun and if there was a decent reward at the end; very worthwhile too.

BTW, I'm aware collusion could become a factor - but that's true for poker in general.

Anyone have any opinions?

5starpool

This was discussed as a form of a prop bet before but never got going.

opr

5starpool wrote:

This was discussed as a form of a prop bet before but never got going.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054920251&referrerid=&highlight=

Rb

Think its a great idea and will certainly participate if someone organises it.

toppro

Flipper wrote:

This idea crossed my mind the other day with all the talk on here of leagues and tourneys etc... Why don't we start a cash league on here? In my opinion, cash won is the best way of "keeping score" in poker.

One way to do it would be for all the participants to open a new account on a chosen site or skin and everyone deposit the same amount (say, $50 or $100 etc). The "winner" of the league will be whomever has turned the initial deposit into the most money at the end of a predetermined period (say, 3 months etc). Players can play cash games, STT's or MTT's but when your initial deposit is gone, you're eliminated from the league. Of course, you could continue to use the site.

Obviously, there would have to be an incentive to do this... I reckon that some poker site (PPP, Boyles, GJP etc) might want to get behind it and offer some sort of 1st prize - something like a cash deposit into your account or a big live tourney buy-in (Irish Open, EPT) etc. In return, they would get a load more account sign-ups and earn a pile of rake.

Whatever site is involved would have to look after the running as they would be the only one with access to everyones' balance. Think it would be fun and if there was a decent reward at the end; very worthwhile too.

BTW, I'm aware collusion could become a factor - but that's true for poker in general.

Anyone have any opinions?

Flipper

toppro wrote:

u and nicky power would be too good.john meehan might u .u owe him that one

Besides the anarchic use of the english language, I still don't understand this post...

Rb

Flipper wrote:

Besides the anarchic use of the english language, I still don't understand this post...

Just ignore him, every one of his posts (including a thread he posted) so far has been a dig at Nicky Power. Just a troll and hopefully the mods will sort it out soon.

Bandana boy

Its probably to easier set up and more likely to happen than the approach in other threads on the subject at the moment

I would be game

5starpool

rb_ie wrote:

Just ignore him, every one of his posts (including a thread he posted) so far has been a dig at Nicky Power. Just a troll and hopefully the mods will sort it out soon.

I am assuming, due to the nature of his Nicky Power related posting that he must be a friend of his. If Nicky or anyone else is offended by his posts in any way then by all means report him or his posts, but afaik people don't get banned just for mentioning some specific person in each of their posts, especially when he does seem to know the people he is mentioning.

5starpool

Back on track, this idea is really only potentially viable for people who play online quite a bit, and not for the part timers. Also, due to the competitive nature of this, there would be quite a bit of incentive to play outside their bankroll, and while this is fine for experiencd players doing this for fun, for newer players who may have funds problems, I would not recommend joining a challenge such as this.

If I played more hours online per week though I would be interested in this for a laugh, but I don't, so it would be pointless me entering. It would be interesting to see how people got on if this did happen though.

Flipper

5starpool wrote:

Back on track, this idea is really only potentially viable for people who play online quite a bit, and not for the part timers. Also, due to the competitive nature of this, there would be quite a bit of incentive to play outside their bankroll, and while this is fine for experiencd players doing this for fun, for newer players who may have funds problems, I would not recommend joining a challenge such as this.

If I played more hours online per week though I would be interested in this for a laugh, but I don't, so it would be pointless me entering. It would be interesting to see how people got on if this did happen though.

I agree that it is a bit of a "catch 22". If enough people didn't play, there would be no motivation for some company to offer a first prize as they wouldn't be getting enough new sign-ups to justify it. If there's no prize to shoot for, not many people would play. I was only using the $50-$100 bracket as a guide. It could be anything but I thought most sites had a minimum $50 deposit.

nicnicnic

5starpool wrote:

I am assuming, due to the nature of his Nicky Power related posting that he must be a friend of his. If Nicky or anyone else is offended by his posts in any way then by all means report him or his posts, but afaik people don't get banned just for mentioning some specific person in each of their posts, especially when he does seem to know the people he is mentioning.

I have no idea who this is and am not really bothered by the post other then they are clogging the forum and quite moronic, its a waste of people's time to start silly treads like this person did last night. Lafortozza locked a couple of treads and warned who ever it was and they seemed to get the message.


BTW bops was only joking asking was it you, your far to subtle for that sh*te

luckylucky

I think it's a nifty idea Flipper, the one problem with it is though i think as that the range of levels people play here ranges from micro to hi stakes.

I don't know what the average stakes would be for players here - maybe .5/1 nl!? - But this would still only suit a minority of players.
For the micro stakes players this would be too much and for higher stakes ones it just wouldn't be worth their while.

How about seeing who's interested and what level of stakes they want to play at?

Then you could break it down to several different leagues.

You could even do it a like a league with relegation and promotion, that would keep us all on our toes

luckylucky

May i suggest GJP as the place to do this, that is if Mike Lacey is game for it, (and no I'm not a pal of his - have never even met him before anyone starts), not that I'm assuming anything but I think many of us already have accounts there and I would think GJP would be up for it.

dvdfan

A poll of some sort might be in order. There is so many suggestions and variations that the thread might start getting out of control, if we had a poll to see what the majority of people want then you could start concentrating on one idea. The last thread was similar to this new one where everyone just kept suggesting new ideas and variations and it eventually lost direction after about 7 pages and 1001 variations.

luckylucky

dvdfan wrote:

A poll of some sort might be in order. There is so many suggestions and variations that the thread might start getting out of control, if we had a poll to see what the majority of people want then you could start concentrating on one idea. The last thread was similar to this new one where everyone just kept suggesting new ideas and variations and it eventually lost direction after about 7 pages and 1001 variations.

I know the thread could get clogged up with different ideas and suggestions, but maybe that's not a bad thing.

Maybe all these suggestions need to be heard and then let the OP make the final decision on what exactly to do with it. I'm keen on the idea but if it's not done right it could end up excluding a lot of people which would be a shame, so imho(am i allowed that textspeak 5star ) I don't think it's any harm to share suggestions and concerns about it in this thread.

Also what would you have the poll on exactly?

5starpool

luckylucky wrote:

so imho(am i allowed that textspeak 5star )

The imho's and afaik's of this world are fine. I don't have a problem with acronyms and accepted interweb words such as meh or noob or sooooted (or indeed, interweb). It is generally just where vowels are left out and numbers put in place of words etc.

Flipper

luckylucky wrote:

Also what would you have the poll on exactly?

It would be great if a mod could add a poll to this thread asking what buy-in everyone interested is willing to invest... Something like this:

• $10
• $25
• $50
• $75
• $100

When we have those stats, then we could gauge how many people would be interested and then go about setting the finer details of the league.

Personally, I'm interested in disiplining myself in bankroll management and I think it would be a fantastic way for players of all stakes and games to do the same. Also, I'm sure it would throw up some interesting ideas and stats.

luckylucky

5star you mentioned that this league mightn't suit part-timers, maybe the league could also be grouped by those who say play less than 5k(or some other figure) hands a month and those who play more.

Furthermore maybe bb/100 could be used as someone who plays 7k hands would obviously find it hard to compete with someone who plays well and plays 2 or 3 times that amount, or would this over-complicate it?

dvdfan

luckylucky wrote:

I know the thread could get clogged up with different ideas and suggestions, but maybe that's not a bad thing.

Maybe all these suggestions need to be heard and then let the OP make the final decision on what exactly to do with it. I'm keen on the idea but if it's not done right it could end up excluding a lot of people which would be a shame, so imho(am i allowed that textspeak 5star ) I don't think it's any harm to share suggestions and concerns about it in this thread.

Also what would you have the poll on exactly?

Yeah i agree that the ideas are a good thing, but i think between the 7 pages in the original thread and this thread there is enough variations of the idea to put to a poll.

You might need more than one poll, for example the first poll could try and see how many people want the full winning from all accounts paid to the winner, a percentage of the winnings or just the initial deposit. This has been a major discussion on the original thread, someone says it should be one, someone else says it shouldnt and it has continued throughout the thread to point where it was overdone. Weve seen the arguments for and against now lets see what the majority of the people would like and then we can concentrate on other things in the discussion like what site you might have it on and how best to audit the results. Dont need a poll for every argument, just maybe for 1 or 2 of the more popular discussions.

This was typed while trying to play so i hope it makes sense:)

luckylucky

Flipper wrote:

It would be great if a mod could add a poll to this thread asking what buy-in everyone interested is willing to invest... Something like this:

• $10
• $25
• $50
• $75
• $100

When we have those stats, then we could gauge how many people would be interested and then go about setting the finer details of the league.

Personally, I'm interested in disiplining myself in bankroll management and I think it would be a fantastic way for players of all stakes and games to do the same. Also, I'm sure it would throw up some interesting ideas and stats.

I do hope you will be adding on 200, 400, 600,1k and possibly more on to this suggested list.

Bandana boy

if you go in to edit your op Flipper u can add a poll there i think
Its at the bottom add poll

luckylucky

dvdfan wrote:

Yeah i agree that the ideas are a good thing, but i think between the 7 pages in the original thread and this thread there is enough variations of the idea to put to a poll.

You might need more than one poll, for example the first poll could try and see how many people want the full winning from all accounts paid to the winner, a percentage of the winnings or just the initial deposit. This has been a major discussion on the original thread, someone says it should be one, someone else says it shouldnt and it has continued throughout the thread to point where it was overdone. Weve seen the arguments for and against now lets see what the majority of the people would like and then we can concentrate on other things in the discussion like what site you might have it on and how best to audit the results. Dont need a poll for every argument, just maybe for 1 or 2 of the more popular discussions.

This was typed while trying to play so i hope it makes sense:)

Fair enough, yeah having several different polls is a good idea, I think the point I'm getting at is try to make this league an inclusive one, so having either/or type polls is not a good idea though imo, that is if the highest number of people want to play .5/1 nl then and the figure we'll say who choose this is 25%, while the guys who voted for .25/5 or 1/2 nl might be content a hell of a lot of others are not going to play who otherwise would.

Flipper

I don't think choosing the buy-in with respect to the cash game limits would be the best idea. Some people might rather play STT's or MTT's. Also, choosing a site which has a decent sign-up bonus would be a good idea.

EDIT: I just added a new thread for the poll as I couldn't edit my OP. you can vote for more than one - which I thought would give us the best representation of peoples' interest.

luckylucky

Flipper wrote:

I don't think choosing the buy-in with respect to the cash game limits would be the best idea. Some people might rather play STT's or MTT's. Also, choosing a site which has a decent sign-up bonus would be a good idea.

EDIT: I just added a new thread for the poll as I couldn't edit my OP. you can vote for more than one - which I thought would give us the best representation of peoples' interest.

Ah I think I get you now, you're saying depost fresh into a new site and whoever makes the most whether it's cash, stts or mtt at the end is the winner, so it'd have to be somewhere none of us are at already, that could be the tricky part, but I guess that would be a neat simple way of doing it.

kakak1

nicnicnic wrote:

I have no idea who this is and am not really bothered by the post other then they are clogging the forum and quite moronic, its a waste of people's time to start silly treads like this person did last night. Lafortozza locked a couple of treads and warned who ever it was and they seemed to get the message.


BTW bops was only joking asking was it you, your far to subtle for that sh*te

Nic,

Being the quite, shy & unassuming guy you are, I'm a wee bit worried that maybe deep down this thread may be getting to you.

However be assured, should you need advice or just someone to talk to, try the Samaritans, open 24hrs a day.

All is not lost, you can make a comeback from this setback !!!

ocallagh

I'd definitely be up for a challenge, however 3 months is a long time to be playing from such a small bankroll. I don't really have any other income at the moment so would need to play a bit higher. If we were to set this up I think a fair way to do it would be decide the winner based on relative earnings.

So, if u start with 500 and end up with 5k then u increased your bankroll 10 fold and that would be your score, 10.

We'd have to have a minimum and a maximum because turning $10 into $200 is very achievable but turning 1k into 20k is not so easy! I think a fair min-max figure would be $100-$1000.

Using this system a wide range of players/BR's would be able to play.

And one other point, the main problem the last time was finding a proper audting system to use. Mike can run reports off the system to keep trac of this for us, so I think GJP would be the best site to use. They also have a 500 bonus.

Oh, and one other point. If this is going to last 3 months there is no way HJ is getting my entire bankroll at the end of it. So I'd suggest a buy in of $20 per person? A nominal prize!!

luckylucky

ocallagh wrote:

I'd definitely be up for a challenge, however 3 months is a long time to be playing from such a small bankroll. I don't really have any other income at the moment so would need to play a bit higher. If we were to set this up I think a fair way to do it would be decide the winner based on relative earnings.

So, if u start with 500 and end up with 5k then u increased your bankroll 10 fold and that would be your score, 10.

We'd have to have a minimum and a maximum because turning $10 into $200 is very achievable but turning 1k into 20k is not so easy! I think a fair min-max figure would be $100-$1000.

Using this system a wide range of players/BR's would be able to play.

And one other point, the main problem the last time was finding a proper audting system to use. Mike can run reports off the system to keep trac of this for us, so I think GJP would be the best site to use. They also have a 500 bonus.

Sounds like a real good solution to me. Just thought of some issues though, what if we bust out? Also for those of us with cash already in gjp, would it mean we need to withdraw so our balance goes down to a starting amount?

Soz for being devil's advocate here, it's actually because I like the idea so much that I just want it to be done right.

ocallagh

luckylucky wrote:

Sounds like a real good solution to me. Just thought of some issues though, what if we bust out? Also for those of us with cash already in gjp, would it mean we need to withdraw so our balance goes down to a starting amount?

Soz for being devil's advocate here, it's actually because I like the idea so much that I just want it to be done right.

You give mike your starting figure. Say you decide to go with $500, but you have $7,600 in your account then your new zero is $7,100.

So, at the end of the 3 months you have $10,100 in your account, your score is as follows.

(10,100 - 7,100) / 500 which works out at 6.

If you bust out (ie: your account ever dips below $7,100 or the equivalent in euro because the US/EUR rates could swing and bust you without you knowing) you are gone from the league, unless of course we allow a second chance or even allow multiple chances (desposits).

Also - another reason to use this scoring system is no $ figures are discussed, just multiples of their starting stack which nobody but Mike will know.

ps:all this assumes Mike is ok to do this...:)

luckylucky

ocallagh wrote:

You give mike your starting figure. Say you decide to go with $500, but you have $7,600 in your account then your new zero is $7,100.

So, at the end of the 3 months you have $10,100 in your account, your score is as follows.

(10,100 - 7,100) / 500 which works out at 6.

If you bust out (ie: your account ever dips below $7,100 or the equivalent in euro because the US/EUR rates could swing and bust you without you knowing) you are gone from the league, unless of course we allow a second chance or even allow multiple chances (desposits).

Also - another reason to use this scoring system is no $ figures are discussed, just multiples of their starting stack which nobody but Mike will know.

ps:all this assumes Mike is ok to do this...:)

sounds like a plan to me - how about if you bust-out, you can reload but there is a penalty - maybe 1/2 point deducted from final score or something like that.

Flipper

I'm not so sure if that'll work (using a portion of your existing balance). What about withdrawals etc of if you just fancied a night at the higher stakes?

I would think it'd be better if everyone started fresh on a particular site that not many people are playing on. Some obscure site like Titan or Absolute Poker might be the answer but I'm sure you could forget about any idea of them offering a prize for the winner.

I only said 3 months as an example. It could just as easily be 1 week - which might actually be more exciting as the whole idea won'g go off the boil.

EDIT: I think with a points system, there might be too much administration work on the site's side... Might be hard to find someone to do it.

5starpool

Niall, I don't know if that is the most equitable solution.

If you have already got 10k in your account for example but plan to use 500 as your base for this challenge, then you can play at far greater levels sustainably with 10k than you can with 500, and you have less chance of going broke. I think it is either a new account or nothing really. If someone plays there already then open it on another skin. I think there has to be a certain amount of trust involved in this tbh if it is going to work.

ocallagh

5starpool wrote:

Niall, I don't know if that is the most equitable solution.

If you have already got 10k in your account for example but plan to use 500 as your base for this challenge, then you can play at far greater levels sustainably with 10k than you can with 500, and you have less chance of going broke.

Broke is when you lose your 500 no matter what your account balance is.. you can never use the reserve 10k so it doesn't matter if it's there or not. You could have 4.9M (like me:rolleyes: ) in your account but it wouldn't matter

I just saw Kieran mentioned we could do it over 1 week. I think that would be best as it would not interfere with jobs! And also I like the idea of everyone playing the same levels.. so 1 week gets my vote.

luckylucky

5starpool wrote:

Niall, I don't know if that is the most equitable solution.

If you have already got 10k in your account for example but plan to use 500 as your base for this challenge, then you can play at far greater levels sustainably with 10k than you can with 500, and you have less chance of going broke. I think it is either a new account or nothing really. If someone plays there already then open it on another skin. I think there has to be a certain amount of trust involved in this tbh if it is going to work.

On the issue of trust, i trust most anyway serious players more than the average man, still though I think the site needs to be involved to keep things more transparent, that's why GJP would be the choice that comes to mind, also when we talk about obscure sites, there are probably no sites out there that are even semi-decent that not one of us have accounts in already.

Also flipper's last suggestion about making it weekly instead of every 3 months is probably a good revision as it stops it from going off the boil as he says.

Was thinking a good prize might be if those who had made a winning time of it gave 10% of their winnings up to a maximum of say $100 to stake the winner to enter a land tournie and the winner to give 50% of any winnings back to the stakers.

toppro

rb_ie wrote:

Just ignore him, every one of his posts (including a thread he posted) so far has been a dig at Nicky Power. Just a troll and hopefully the mods will sort it out soon.

only a friendly dig at nicky sorry to offend anyone

toppro

rb_ie wrote:

Just ignore him, every one of his posts (including a thread he posted) so far has been a dig at Nicky Power. Just a troll and hopefully the mods will sort it out soon.

only a friendly dig at nicky sorry to offend anyone

toppro

kakak1 wrote:

Nic,

Being the quite, shy & unassuming guy you are, I'm a wee bit worried that maybe deep down this thread may be getting to you.

However be assured, should you need advice or just someone to talk to, try the Samaritans, open 24hrs a day.

All is not lost, you can make a comeback from this setback !!!

lol .not that shy

toppro

kakak1 wrote:

Nic,

Being the quite, shy & unassuming guy you are, I'm a wee bit worried that maybe deep down this thread may be getting to you.

However be assured, should you need advice or just someone to talk to, try the Samaritans, open 24hrs a day.

All is not lost, you can make a comeback from this setback !!!

lol .not that shy;)

Lazare

Nic, I think you should check out this link




http://www.esia.net/Common_Traits_of_Stalkers.htm

Shortstack

Only just read this thread. Leave it with me and I will work out the best way to run it. Of course if it goes ahead on GJP we will add something the prizepool.

Flipper

good stuff Mike, should be interesting.

luckylucky

What's happening with this league then?

May I suggest it kicks off soon in one guise or another or else this nice idea of Flipper's will get forgotten about.

RoadSweeper

Is there gonna be a micro/student stakes league set up?

timoz2

I do like the sound of this idea - might be good to have it across a couple of local sites