Two set of brake levers on Racers?

jasonb

Hi there...

Try not to shoot me down in flames, but it's been a VERY long time since I owned a bike...

Anyhow, my Girlfriend is thinking of getting a bike, to use for some sponsored cycles this coming year. She'd ideally like a racer, but one with two sets of brake levers. In other words, one set on the 'top' of the dropped handles bars, which you can use while you have your hands there, and one set on the curved part, which can be used when you're using the lower section of the handlebars ( i.e. when you're more aerodynamic ).

Now, when I had a bike years ago, most racers seemed to have this system, with two brake levers ( attached to one another ), one for each 'area' of the handlebars. However, nearly everything I've seen in the shops so far only has the second, dropped, brake levers. Hope that all makes sense...

Basically, I wondering if it's possible to get two sets of levers on a racer nowadays, or is that system not in use anymore? Any advice please!

J.

Itsfixed

jasonb wrote:

Hi there...

Try not to shoot me down in flames, but it's been a VERY long time since I owned a bike...

Anyhow, my Girlfriend is thinking of getting a bike, to use for some sponsored cycles this coming year. She'd ideally like a racer, but one with two sets of brake levers. In other words, one set on the 'top' of the dropped handles bars, which you can use while you have your hands there, and one set on the curved part, which can be used when you're using the lower section of the handlebars ( i.e. when you're more aerodynamic ).

Now, when I had a bike years ago, most racers seemed to have this system, with two brake levers ( attached to one another ), one for each 'area' of the handlebars. However, nearly everything I've seen in the shops so far only has the second, dropped, brake levers. Hope that all makes sense...

Basically, I wondering if it's possible to get two sets of levers on a racer nowadays, or is that system not in use anymore? Any advice please!

J.

Yeah everyone remembers them and yeah, you're right they're not around anymore but there is an alternative in the form of smaller levers that are often to be found on cyclo-cross bikes and some touring bikes. See here
(scroll down to the middle/end of the page). Widely available and you can get the bike shop to fit them when you buy the bike.

I have them too and they're great if you spend at least half your time on the tops, as I do.

jasonb

Ah cool... Thanks a lot for that, I know what to look for now!

J.

Ghost Rider

Do you need to use brake cables that split in two? If not, how do the secondary levers connect to the braking system?

Itsfixed wrote:

Yeah everyone remembers them and yeah, you're right they're not around anymore but there is an alternative in the form of smaller levers that are often to be found on cyclo-cross bikes and some touring bikes. See here
(scroll down to the middle/end of the page). Widely available and you can get the bike shop to fit them when you buy the bike.

I have them too and they're great if you spend at least half your time on the tops, as I do.

hunnymonster

a descent bike shop can fit the second levers on the top of the handle bars for you. I got my first road bike in the UK and they did this for me. It doesn't take long to get used to the brakes on the drops though so if I were you, I'd save the few quid and just start on quiet roads.

Capt'n Midnight

jasonb wrote:

Now, when I had a bike years ago, most racers seemed to have this system, with two brake levers ( attached to one another ), one for each 'area' of the handlebars. However, nearly everything I've seen in the shops so far only has the second, dropped, brake levers. Hope that all makes sense...

On old bikes they used extension levers on the side of the brakes, also know as "Suicide levers" as they were NOT designed to stop you. The were for slowing you down slightly on long gentle continental hills so you wouldn't have to be hunched all the way down. Again I repeat they will slow you down, they won't stop you when you need them, and totally useless in the wet, best thing you can do with them is take a hacksaw to them.

http://wandel.ca/bikes/0620-170639.jpg = 138 KB image
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html#extension

Morgan

Ghost Rider wrote:

Do you need to use brake cables that split in two? If not, how do the secondary levers connect to the braking system?

The cable runs the whole way from the drop bar lever to the brake. There are two sections of cable housing - from the drop bar lever to the secondary lever and from the secondary lever to the brake. The secondary lever actually pulls the cable housing, not the cable.

jasonb

Another question for the experts...

Does the second set of brake levers solution mentioned above by Itsfixed work on all bikes? Or do some bikes have their brakes done differently to others, and therefore that solution won't work?

My girlfriend's spotted the Raleigh Airlite range, which seems to be a cheap simple racer, which is all she really wants. However, she was talking to someone in EuroCycles, and they said it wasn't possible to get the second set of brake levers added.

Now, was this just a poor answer from Eurocycles, or is it not possible with the AirLite bikes? If the former, I assume we can buy the bike ( probably online, as it's cheaper ), and then get someplace other than EuroCycles to add the second set of brakes? Thoughts, please...

Jason.

Itsfixed

jasonb wrote:

Another question for the experts...

Does the second set of brake levers solution mentioned above by Itsfixed work on all bikes? Or do some bikes have their brakes done differently to others, and therefore that solution won't work?

My girlfriend's spotted the Raleigh Airlite range, which seems to be a cheap simple racer, which is all she really wants. However, she was talking to someone in EuroCycles, and they said it wasn't possible to get the second set of brake levers added.

Now, was this just a poor answer from Eurocycles, or is it not possible with the AirLite bikes? If the former, I assume we can buy the bike ( probably online, as it's cheaper ), and then get someplace other than EuroCycles to add the second set of brakes? Thoughts, please...

Jason.

Yes you can add these levers to any newish bike with drop handlebars. So yes, totally wrong answer from Eurocycles - probably just lazy or unwilling. The only thing is that you would need to be careful not to ruin the bar tape so as to avoid having to buy a whole new roll. It is perfectly doable though.

jasonb

Thanks again, another quick and helpful reply! Now to find the bike online, it seems to be €500 in the shops and €350 on ebay, including shipping!

J.

Cassiel

Guy I know was selling the base Trek model this time last year (Trek 1000) with levers on the drops and separate levers on the flats. He might still have a couple. Was KM Cycles in Longford, haven't the phone number, he's in the buy & sell. He'd be very competitive on price. Couldn't see the appeal of the additional brake levers myself.

edit: from the buyandsell:
TREK - TREK - TREK - BIKES MASSIVE SALE, ALL BRAND NEW BIKES 1000 - 1200 - 1400 - 1500 - 2000 ROAD BIKES AT CLEARANCE PRICES. PHONE FOR DETAILS, BUT BE QUICK, DELIVERY NATIONWIDE. FULL RANGE OF OTHER BIKES- GO KARTS, KM CYCLES LONGFORD. TEL: (043)41656 OR (086)1006054

jasonb wrote:

Thanks again, another quick and helpful reply! Now to find the bike online, it seems to be €500 in the shops and €350 on ebay, including shipping!

J.

Membrane

jasonb wrote:

Hi there...

Try not to shoot me down in flames, but it's been a VERY long time since I owned a bike...

Anyhow, my Girlfriend is thinking of getting a bike, to use for some sponsored cycles this coming year. She'd ideally like a racer, but one with two sets of brake levers. In other words, one set on the 'top' of the dropped handles bars, which you can use while you have your hands there, and one set on the curved part, which can be used when you're using the lower section of the handlebars ( i.e. when you're more aerodynamic ).

Now, when I had a bike years ago, most racers seemed to have this system, with two brake levers ( attached to one another ), one for each 'area' of the handlebars. However, nearly everything I've seen in the shops so far only has the second, dropped, brake levers. Hope that all makes sense...

Basically, I wondering if it's possible to get two sets of levers on a racer nowadays, or is that system not in use anymore? Any advice please!

J.

Does she really intend to use the flat aerodynamic position? IMO this position is only really useful for competitive cycling only, it doesn't sound like that's her intent.

If not then a bike with a flat bar seems a more logical choice, with their grip shifters they offer all the controls you need in one place.

If she does intend to use the aerodynamic position then there are three positions for your hands:

1) On the flat cross bit of the bar, you'd need the angled brake lever extensions you mentioned to reach the brakes from that position.
2) Hands resting on top of the brake lever mounts, this gives a slightly more forward seating position, but not as extreme as gripping the bars inside the curved bit. This position allows comfortable access to the brake levers, no extension required.
3) Gripping the bars inside the curved bit resulting in the aerodynamic position, again access to the brakes is comfortable.

You can get from position (1) to position (2) quickly and comfortably, unlike switching from position (1) to position (3) which takes more time and isn't comfortable to do.

blorg

Membrane's advice with regard to the hand positions is spot on; the only thing I would disagree with is that drops are only for the "flat aerodynamic position" or for "competitive cycling only." On the contrary, drops offer far more hand positions than flat bars and are superior for any sort of long-distance cycling, that's why touring bikes all come with drops. (I started with flat bars myself and moved to drops, wouldn't go back.)

As Membrane points out, even if you are in "position 1" you can get to "position 2" quickly enough and so you don't really _need_ the dual brakes in most cases (it is a misnomer that you have to be in "position 3" to use the brakes, although that position does give superior leverage over 2.

Membrane

blorg wrote:

drops offer far more hand positions than flat bars and are superior for any sort of long-distance cycling, that's why touring bikes all come with drops.

Plenty of road touring bikes with a flat bar I'd say: http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/advSearch_h.asp?idCategory=38&fp=bnd&resultCnt=50

On what's better we'll have to agree to disagree, I used to have drop bars, rarely got down low with them.

blorg

Membrane wrote:

Plenty of road touring bikes with a flat bar I'd say: http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/advSearch_h.asp?idCategory=38&fp=bnd&resultCnt=50

They are flat bar road bikes/fast hybrids, not touring bikes. For example, look at Evans Cycles touring bike department. A standard/classic touring bike has drops. Now obviously you can tour on anything (and I cycled across Spain on a steel flat bar Dawes city hybrid myself) but traditionally any bike designed to be ridden across long distances has used drops.

On what's better we'll have to agree to disagree, I used to have drop bars, rarely got down low with them.

I rarely get down low either, spend most of my time on the brake hoods. But point is there is a wider range of hand positions, more of which put you convenient to the brakes/shifters. I would never pressure someone into drops if they are more comfortable with a flat bar but certainly wouldn't be talking them out of the drops if they were comfortable with them.

Membrane

blorg wrote:

They are flat bar road bikes/fast hybrids, not touring bikes.

IMO bike classifications such as those provide very little meaning from which their typical usage can be derived. Different people call the same bike type different things. You seem to call what CycleSuperStore call "racers" (bikes with drop bars) "touring bikes". Fine by me, but you can't then argue that bikes that exept for having flat handlebars otherwise have the same features as the racers "not touring bikes", based solely on a reference to someones definition of a category.

From a usage perspective neither shown categories qualify, as you'd expect stock facilities such as lights and a luggage stacking facility.

blorg

Membrane, there are long-standing categories of bikes of which "touring bike" is probably one of the oldest (certainly well predates whippersnapper categories such as "mountain bike" which only date to the 70s.) Their meaning is well understood, I'm not just pulling this out of my ___.

A touring bike is primarily designed for self-supported trips of a long distance and long duration, e.g. 1,000km over two weeks where you are going to have to carry everything you need (tent, etc.) on the back of the bike. A racing bike is designed to go as fast as possible and doesn't need to carry anything. A hybrid is designed for shorter journeys with a more upright position that can be good for commuting in traffic; for some people it can be more comfortable for this.

"Touring bikes" are quite different from racers ("road bikes".) Indeed, about the only similarity is the drop bars. A traditional touring bike will be heavy, stable, have thicker tyres, a relaxed geometry and gearing, and come with racks and mudguards. A road bike will be feather light, not so stable, have thin tyres and an agressive geometry and gearing, and generally simply will not take racks or mudguards. In-between you have audax bikes which are designed for shorter/faster/lighter tours or events such as brevets. (There is also cyclocross.)

The category that you refer to (the flat bar road bike/fast hybrid, what CTC refer to as a "fitness bike") is much more recent in origin. So much so that when I went looking for one four years ago the Specialized Sirrus was pretty much _it_ (now all the manufacturers do them.) While most hybrids combine mostly mountain bike components and gearing with 700c wheels, flat bar road bikes tend to use road bike components and gearing, and simply swap out the drops for a flat bar (although the geometry can also tend to be more relaxed, the tyres a tad thicker, etc.) These bikes are designed for shorter jaunts or, particularly, commuting.

Anyway, my point is simply that bikes specifically _designed_ for going long distances use drop handlebars, and have done, since time immemorial.