Predicting lights. A crime?

cormie

I just read in another post that somebodies friend got done for taking off too soon when the light went green.

Originally poster by Jimmycrackcorm:
I have a friend who was up in court because a Garda formed an opinion that he was driving dangerously by virtue that he took off too quick when a traffic light turned to Green. His solicitor embarassed the garda in court and the judge dismissed on a lack of exidence.

I do this quite a lot, always make sure there is no oncoming traffic (of course) and start to accelerate pretty much the instant the light goes green.

Is this actually a crime and had there been evidence that he took off quickly, would it have been taken further? What defines evidence anyway, what evidence do the garda have of most offences? Dangerous driving, people eating apples etc:rolleyes:

subway

i got a warning from a garda once for this.
was on the bike at the same junstion ive crossed every day for 2 years.
since im on a bike i would always be at the front so know the timing of every junction.

this particular one is 30 seconds of green for the oncoming traffic,
then a couple of amber (into first) then red and i start to move.
by the time i cross the white line the lights are green.

explained to the garda that the light was green when i rolled over the line and red means stop at the line, not stop where you are.
he told me i could end up in court before getting back in his jeep and u-turning into oncoming traffic

cormie

Yeah, I don't see the problem, if you have a clear view and don't actually go past the line until green (you never know, the sequence could change), it's hardly dangerous driving.

How about this though, if you're going Northbound on the M11/M50 and take the Cherrywood exit, from the time the first set of lights go green, straight away, you will see another set of lights about 60 metres around the corner, they will be red but turn green by the time you get to them if you were going full speed (in a 1.1L car anyway;)) so you can time it just right that you go through them about 2 seconds after they go green, going within the 60 speed limit. Again, you have a clear view of all other traffic by looking left (like you should do anyway).

Wonder could you be done for that even if you made sure you had enough stopping time if the lights happened not to stick to their normal sequence.

Big Nelly

subway wrote:

this particular one is 30 seconds of green for the oncoming traffic,
then a couple of amber (into first) then red and i start to move.
by the time i cross the white line the lights are green.

Yeah cause the light timing can never change:rolleyes: how is there anyway you could tell that the timing wasn't reset the day beforehand if the lights had a service? none!!! and also a light that goes green for 30 secs only??? your having a laugh!!!!

To cormie!! your coming up with alot of someone told me, I heard somewhere stories in last while on Garda. Why don't you only post when you know the facts. Not stories on "oh my mate heard from his sisters, mates, mothers, daughter" (ps I know that makes no sense)

Both posts about apple and now this have included very suspect information. If someone is eating an apple and weaving all over the road then it is dangerous driving and if someone takes off before the lights go green then it is also dangerous driving!! same as me when I ran light last week when it was amber and got pulled in, my mistake and I admit it.

i71jskz5xu42pb

subway wrote:

so know the timing of every junction.

The timing at junctions is NEVER changed.

Wishbone Ash

PaschalNee wrote:

The timing at junctions is NEVER changed.

The Gardai regularly radio their traffic control to have the timing of lights changed (on an ad hoc basis) to improve traffic flow at particular times.

subway

meh,
i know its hard for you to believe that by disengaging the clutch i can move the vehicle slowly forward at such a pace that i could again stop if the light didnt change to green.
its the one place that i know is unlikely to ever change, the lights do go green for 30 seconds and if any of the above change i would cop on fairly qucik, seeing as in the sequence of lights my side is the last to get green.

sorry that you all take such offence to someone going through a green light,
have a chat with taxis, buses and anyone else that regularly finds them self at the front of a traffic queue.
its a bit of a black art , but fortunately for me, perfectly legal.

Big Nelly

subway wrote:

meh,
i know its hard for you to believe that by disengaging the clutch i can move the vehicle slowly forward at such a pace that i could again stop if the light didnt change to green.
its the one place that i know is unlikely to ever change, the lights do go green for 30 seconds and if any of the above change i would cop on fairly qucik, seeing as in the sequence of lights my side is the last to get green.

sorry that you all take such offence to someone going through a green light,
have a chat with taxis, buses and anyone else that regularly finds them self at the front of a traffic queue.
its a bit of a black art , but fortunately for me, perfectly legal.

Black art or just dangerous driving? same old excuse from most of Irelands drivers. Ahh sure someone else done it so why can't I? why not grow up and drive with some thought. No excuse anymore that I seen a black car somewhere go thru a light before it went green so now I can do it!!!

cormie

Big Nelly wrote:

To cormie!! your coming up with alot of someone told me, I heard somewhere stories in last while on Garda. Why don't you only post when you know the facts. Not stories on "oh my mate heard from his sisters, mates, mothers, daughter" (ps I know that makes no sense)

Both posts about apple and now this have included very suspect information.

What facts should I know before posting? That's the reason I post in the first place, they are issues which relate to me and I'd like more information on them. And the "I heard this, someone said that" is what inspired the post just so you know. I don't go weaving in an out of traffic thinking I'm deadly with an apple giving the fingers to oul ladies son.:rolleyes:

i71jskz5xu42pb

Wishbone Ash wrote:

The Gardai regularly radio their traffic control to have the timing of lights changed (on an ad hoc basis) to improve traffic flow at particular times.

You missed the sarcasm, methinks

seamus

Wishbone Ash wrote:

The Gardai regularly radio their traffic control to have the timing of lights changed (on an ad hoc basis) to improve traffic flow at particular times.

The timing changes, but the sequence doesn't change all that often.

In any case, no-one here has said that they just burn off. I think most people (like myself), make a point of not actually going until their light has gone green, just on the off chance that they've decided to change the sequence or add in a new pedestrian or filter light.

Wishbone Ash

PaschalNee wrote:

You missed the sarcasm, methinks

Indeed I did.

subway

Big Nelly wrote:

Black art or just dangerous driving? same old excuse from most of Irelands drivers. Ahh sure someone else done it so why can't I? why not grow up and drive with some thought. No excuse anymore that I seen a black car somewhere go thru a light before it went green so now I can do it!!!

like i said, black art.
with no penalty points, no accidents, 5 years ncb, a full license and whatever else you want to prove that im a good driver - not that i need to prove it to you, i know what i can and cant do on a machine - i am what the law regards as a perfect driver.

the results of my actions justify what i do.
im exponentially more involved with my driving and that allows me to gain an advantage in traffic.
i dont see how anyone can justify calling me a dangerous driver simply because i drive beyond that persons capabilities - within the bounds of the law of course.

Henry Ford III

A red light means stop. Not prepare to go.

I can't see the issue here tbh.

subway

Henry Ford III wrote:

A red light means stop. Not prepare to go.

I can't see the issue here tbh.

its outlined in the posts above.
generally after a light is red, it goes green.
at that point a vehicle should be getting on its way

theres seems to be some confusion as to what to do when the light goes green.

Fey!

God knows how many people I've been behind who feel that they need an invitation to go after the light changes to green. Very frustrating, especially when the lights at the junction are only green long enough for 2 or 3 cars to go through.

NeMiSiS

Slow slow slow slow take off speeds of your averege Irish Motorist, how many times are youleft wondering "Why are these people stopped at a green light?".
TK

SonOfPerdition

One of the most important part of advanced driving/riding is keen observation.

It is perfectly acceptable to observe traffic light patterns, and to prepare to smoothly move off as you see the other lights turn red. As long as you don't go until your lights are green then it is very good practice to be ready!

Sitting there waiting until your lights go green before you engage a gear shows poor observation and awareness.

Next time you are at the lights and you see a garda motorcyclist in front of you . .watch how he moves from neutral into 1st gear as he sees the opposite lights turn amber. by the time the opposite lights turn red, the garda (and any well trained motorcyclist/driver) will be in first gear, with right foot covering brake and waiting for his light to turn green.

Once you get the green light you progress forward watching out for the likes of Nelly jumping the lights..

cormie

SonOfPerdition wrote:

by the time the opposite lights turn red, the garda (and any well trained motorcyclist/driver) will be in first gear, with right foot covering brake and waiting for his light to turn green.

Handbreak should be engaged when stationary, so right foot should be ready to accelerate as handbreak is released;)

Alun

Big Nelly wrote:

and also a light that goes green for 30 secs only??? your having a laugh!!!!

Plenty of those around .. there's one near me that even if everyone's sitting in gear ready for the off only goes green for long enough for maybe 4 or 5 cars to get through. I'm guessing it's not even 20 seconds, although I've never actually measured it. Mind you most of the complete cycle is taken up with phases for non-existent pedestrians and/or cyclists.

subway

cormie wrote:

Handbreak should be engaged when stationary, so right foot should be ready to accelerate as handbreak is released;)

most motorbikes dont have handbrakes

peasant

It would be sooooo much easier for everybody if the light phase was as follows:

Red
Red + Amber
Green

like it is in most other countries.

Takes the element of surprise out of it and lets everybody get into gear and all before it's actually green.

But then again ...it would make perfect sense, so it's probably not going to be introduced here ...:D

Vegeta

peasant wrote:

But then again ...it would make perfect sense, so it's probably not going to be introduced here ...:D

unfortunately for all of us that is too true

subway

another problem with introducing that in ireland is the "go on orange" attitude of many drivers.

layke

Been in loads of countries, it's not only an Irish thing. Everyone does it.

I doubt drivers would go on orange while motorists are whizzing though the junction from the left or right.

subway

apparently thats what some drivers think i do judging by earlier replies to this thread.

i dont think people are so insane that they would just dump the clutch at an orange light, but i guess theres the danger of "nosing" the car out too early

SonOfPerdition

SonOfPerdition wrote:

by the time the opposite lights turn red, the garda (and any well trained motorcyclist/driver) will be in first gear, with right foot covering brake and waiting for his light to turn green.

cormie wrote:

Handbreak should be engaged when stationary, so right foot should be ready to accelerate as handbreak is released;)

SonOfPerdition wrote:

Next time you are at the lights and you see a garda motorcyclist in front of you

TempestSabre

Alun wrote:

Plenty of those around .. there's one near me that even if everyone's sitting in gear ready for the off only goes green for long enough for maybe 4 or 5 cars to get through. I'm guessing it's not even 20 seconds, although I've never actually measured it. Mind you most of the complete cycle is taken up with phases for non-existent pedestrians and/or cyclists.

I've seen lights with a green thats less than 10sec, and if the first person doesn't move off sharply they miss the light. If they move quickly two cars get out.

cpoh1

Big Nelly wrote:

Black art or just dangerous driving? same old excuse from most of Irelands drivers. Ahh sure someone else done it so why can't I? why not grow up and drive with some thought. No excuse anymore that I seen a black car somewhere go thru a light before it went green so now I can do it!!!

Id be more worried about my own state of driving before I put the boot in on others if I were you after reading your thread the other day about your own appaling behaviour on the road.

Its pretty common sense to have a look at the colour of the other lights and be ready to take off when they go amber to red. It keeps the flow of traffic moving. It would be perfect if we used the system in the uk where the light goes amber before green to let the stopped traffic to drop the handbrake and get the car in gear to speed up traffic flow.

ballooba

I love the way in Belfast the lights goes Red -> Orange -> Green.

When it goes Orange you can start to move off effectively.

I'd say it makes it a lot more dangerous to break the lights though.

ninty9er

PaschalNee wrote:

The timing at junctions is NEVER changed.

You should come to Limerick, where timings change depending on the time of day, week/weekend and what time of year it is.......try and time yourself here!!!

But I have the clutch let out with the handbrake on ready for the lights to go green. As soon as they're green I move, not like some reallly annoying people who wait 5 seconds "just in case":mad:; resulting in them being the only car to get through a short sequence.........pain in the ass people. They'd be done for failure to progress on the coninent and rightly so!!!!!

Wishbone Ash

ballooba wrote:

I love the way in Belfast the lights goes Red -> Orange -> Green.When it goes Orange you can start to move off effectively.

subway wrote:

i dont think people are so insane that they would just dump the clutch at an orange light

layke wrote:

I doubt drivers would go on orange while motorists are whizzing though the junction from the left or right

subway wrote:

another problem with introducing that in ireland is the "go on orange" attitude of many drivers.

AMBER lads, AMBER, AMBER, AMBER

subway

feck off!!!
:P

Stark

ninty69er wrote:

They'd be done for failure to progress on the coninent and rightly so!!!!!

You'll get a progress fault in your driving test over here if you don't take off quickly when the lights go green. (You have to sit with your foot on the clutch with the car in first gear waiting for the light to go green if you're at the top of the queue for the lights.)

TempestSabre

Stark wrote:

You'll get a progress fault in your driving test over here if you don't take off quickly when the lights go green. (You have to sit with your foot on the clutch with the car in first gear waiting for the light to go green if you're at the top of the queue for the lights.)

I doubt that riding the clutch is a requirement.

cormie

yeah, I can't imagine the tester being to happy if you stayed in 1st for the whole duration of the red light. If you see the opposite light for amber, get it into gear then but I'd be sceptical about doing it for the whole time

Stark

I'm unclear on that myself. It doesn't make sense to me but any instructor I've had has told me to ride the clutch, but then most driving instructors don't have a clue.

I'm pretty sure you do get the progress fault for not taking off quickly though.

cormie

yeah you definitely would get it if you delayed once the light went green and if you didn't get it up to a good speed for the area in time.

TempestSabre

You don't have to ride the clutch, just learn to change gear quickly. If you are watching the lights you should see the other lights change to amber, then red before yours change to green. Even where the lights are cowled theres nearly always a reflection somewhere that shows what color they are.

TBH lack of progress is a really wishy washy get out for testers IMO. The urban speed limits are so slow you'd have to be crawling for a valid lack of progress. Its a lot to ask a learner to be aggressive/progressive in urban traffic. For most people that only comes with experience.