Lee Morrison Seminar - REPORT

yomchi

Hi guys,

well as most of you know I hosted a seminar with Lee Morrison on Saturday just gone. I have to say it was an incredible day. 35 people attended from all different martial arts back grounds from Taekwon-Do, BJJ, Judo and Kenpo and of course Combative enthusiasts and people with no experience whatsoever.
Everyone enjoyed the day, Lee's instruction is second to none, his experience his huge and his concepts are very impressive.

Thanks to everyone who attended for making it a hugely succesful day, it was nice to meet some of you guys from the boards..Baggio, Odyseuss, Boru, Kwalsh, and a good amount of lurkers! Thanks to you all.

For a full report and some photo's see www.iutf-dublin.com

Also the March edition of Irish fighter will be carrying a feature on the seminar.

Jon

gymrabbit

looks interesting but not really my cup of tea.

Millionaire

Great Review Jon on your web site. Great to hear seminar was a success.

Sounds like a great seminar.

Thats great news Urban Combatives will be having a branch in Ireland for 2007.

Baggio...

Hey guys,

That's a great review Jon (phew...now I don't have to do one ). I had a brilliant time, and it was great to see Lee in action. You can see why he is considered to be one of the best around by his skills, attitude and system. I've been following Lee's work for a long time now and I think he one of the most important figures in modern Combatives. As an instructor he is very approachable and down to Earth and is also willing to give his time up to anyone who is interested.

It was also great to meet up with Jon, Odysseus and Boru and I'm really looking forward to training with you guys in the future.

Cheers for organizing the session - everything ran like clockwork.

All the best,

Baggio.

kwalsh000

....il venture into this area....:p
Great review Jon,
Was a great day..long one but very interesting. Really nice chap..but knows his stuff and everyone who was there seemed to take something away from it. Definatly up for doing it again, or baggio was saying on a more constant basis, and was also nice to meet everyone from boards who turned up...

yomchi

I'll have a combative training group going every wednesday evening in the next few weeks, and Baggio is setting up in Kildare so we've the nucleus of something good to come!
Also Aidan Carroll incorporates Lee's stuff into his Krav Maga class's, Aidan's another guy who has plied his trade in real life experience.

kwalsh000

Liking the sound of that. As you know i will definatly be up for joining in when am back down in Janurary. Sign me up!

yomchi

kwalsh000 wrote:

Liking the sound of that. As you know i will definatly be up for joining in when am back down in Janurary. Sign me up!

No prob my man, drop in when your back in the city

buck65

Jon
wondering what Lee thought about going to ground?
Was he in the same "Avoid at all costs" position as say Jamie O Keefe or did he cover some grappling?

yomchi

buck65 wrote:

Jon
wondering what Lee thought about going to ground?
Was he in the same "Avoid at all costs" position as say Jamie O Keefe or did he cover some grappling?

In the UC syllabus there are topics covered for fighting on the ground. What Lee will advocate is that if you find yourself on the ground, get back onto your feet ASAP. The ground is not an ideal place to be when we talk about street attacks, you,ve got many things to be worried about down there - sharp edges, glass, dog sh1t! and the possability of others laying boots in while your down there.

Have you trained with Jamie O Keefe?

buck65

no read his book Pre emptive strikes for winning fights
found it ok

Baggio...

I read that book too... I did not like very much. There was a some good material in it - "action beats reaction", etc. But I'd been aware of those concepts for quite some time. I thought the photos of the various strikes were some what convoluted and quite bizarre at times. I did not like his concept of anti-grappling "Bitejitsu" either. Don't fancy biting some junkie to be honest.

That said, I've heard very good reports about some of his other books.

Lee, like most of the other Combatives guys don't ever adfvocate going to the ground as Jon said. But if it happens - they do favour a direct and brutal ground fighting system.

yomchi

Baggio... wrote:

I read that book too... I did not like very much. There was a some good material in it - "action beats reaction", etc. But I'd been aware of those concepts for quite some time. I thought the photos of the various strikes were some what convoluted and quite bizarre at times. I did not like his concept of anti-grappling "Bitejitsu" either. Don't fancy biting some junkie to be honest.

That said, I've heard very good reports about some of his other books.

Lee, like most of the other Combatives guys don't ever adfvocate going to the ground as Jon said. But if it happens - they do favour a direct and brutal ground fighting system.

My thoughts exactly!

Odysseus

Cheers Jon, thank for organising it, that's the second time I trained with Lee and it was as good as the first. It was great meet those I knew from boards as well as putting names to faces.

Baggio...

Jon wrote:

My thoughts exactly!

My favorite ones are, and I quote:D :

"Afro comb Hammer fist" & "Double Chin Amputation with Pruning Sheers".

Not too sure what mister O'keefe was thinking there...

yomchi

Baggio... wrote:

My favorite ones are, and I quote:D :

"Afro comb Hammer fist" & "Double Chin Amputation with Pruning Sheers".

Not too sure what mister O'keefe was thinking there...

LOL.. they sound like Kenpo moves

Odysseus

Just to add this and I was talking to Lee about this afterwards, coming form a psychotherapeutic background, it is my opinion that he presents the best understanding of the psychology of RSBD that I have come across to date.

I have to say I like Jamie O'Keefe's stuff but I have to agree some of it is a tad too extereme. In relation to the biting Baggio, the last peice of research I was aware of reckoned that 76% of Iv users were Hep C+, can't rememember the precise figure.

Baggio...

Jon wrote:

LOL.. they sound like Kenpo moves

Hey Jon,

Hah... they certainly do Americans just love their fancy names;) .

Odysseus wrote:

I have to say I like Jamie O'Keefe's stuff but I have to agree some of it is a tad too extereme. In relation to the biting Baggio, the last peice of research I was aware of reckoned that 76% of Iv users were Hep C+, can't rememember the precise figure.

Hey Seamus,

Eeek!71% eh?.. That's a hell of a lot - so I'm not doing a Macdonald's on someone, is just too risky.

Re. Jamie O'keefe, He's very well respected alright, and I'd like to read some of his other books. It's just I think that particular book is not the may west. I know Lee thinks very highly of him.

Cheers,

B.

yomchi

Baggio... wrote:

Hey Jon,

Hah... they certainly do Americans just love their fancy names;) .


Hey Seamus,

Eeek!71% eh?.. That's a hell of a lot - so I'm not doing a Macdonald's on someone, is just too risky.

Re. Jamie O'keefe, He's very well respected alright, and I'd like to read some of his other books. It's just I think that particular book is not the may west. I know Lee thinks very highly of him.

Cheers,

B.

Yeh Lee has him up there with the best of them. He does know his stuff and again has pressure tested his theories in real life situations, always something to be respected for - even more so when you see the nonesense that some 'masters' are putting about as self defence in the thread John K started -Fantasy V Reality thread.

john kavanagh

Jon wrote:

He does know his stuff and again has pressure tested his theories in real life situations

as a matter of interest how?

yomchi

john kavanagh wrote:

as a matter of interest how?

O'Keefe worked the doors for donkeys years. He'd be known for being a hard man on the streets and for having a very aggressive approach to dealing with people who stepped up to him.

pma-ire

Jon wrote:

Hi guys,

well as most of you know I hosted a seminar with Lee Morrison on Saturday just gone. I have to say it was an incredible day. 35 people attended from all different martial arts back grounds from Taekwon-Do, BJJ, Judo and Kenpo and of course Combative enthusiasts and people with no experience whatsoever.
Everyone enjoyed the day, Lee's instruction is second to none, his experience his huge and his concepts are very impressive.

Thanks to everyone who attended for making it a hugely succesful day, it was nice to meet some of you guys from the boards..Baggio, Odyseuss, Boru, Kwalsh, and a good amount of lurkers! Thanks to you all.

For a full report and some photo's see www.iutf-dublin.com

Also the March edition of Irish fighter will be carrying a feature on the seminar.

Jon

congrats on the seminar jon!!

yomchi

pma-ire wrote:

congrats on the seminar jon!!

Cheers man! Its been a good year for seminars!

john kavanagh

Jon wrote:

O'Keefe worked the doors for donkeys years.

dealing with a violent situation 'on the door' is very different to when your own your own or out for the night. on the door you've the back up of a number of big (usually!) sober guys and the person you're dealing with is usually drunk and not much of problem physically.

Jon wrote:

He'd be known for being a hard man on the streets

i know the 'hard man from the streets' can be very appealing to certain types of people who go for this type of training. maybe they were bullyed growing up and now fantasise about being able to 'smash up' those bullies themselves and so are drawn to these type of characters.

my point being that from my experience you can't teach these type of people to be a 'hard man', its not in their character. not saying they can't learn to fight, just imo trying to emulate a 'known hard man' won't work.

yomchi

dealing with a violent situation 'on the door' is very different to when your own your own or out for the night. on the door you've the back up of a number of big (usually!) sober guys and the person you're dealing with is usually drunk and not much of problem physically

Good point, on the other hand it can be one place where you meet the most nastiest of people. I don't know the man personally, all I repeat is what I've heard.

i know the 'hard man from the streets' can be very appealing to certain types of people who go for this type of training. maybe they were bullyed growing up and now fantasise about being able to 'smash up' those bullies themselves and so are drawn to these type of characters.

Of course, certain types will look at this type of training as filling the 'gap' from previous experience, Like you say someone who was bullied as a kid. It can help some people create an sense of confidence in themselves, if you will.
There is nothing wrong with fantasy IMO, if someone has been bullied severly enough, their fantasy is relevant. Everyone wants to see a bully having the snot kicked out of him.

Personally speaking, I am drawn to this method of training because its functional. As an instructor I want to deliver what is functional and what is believed to be useful, something I thank Tim Murphy - of all people for showing me its existance. The fact being that the majority of 'leading figures' in this area of training happen to come from violant or aggressive back grounds is something that neither interests me or excite's me. What they teach is what Im after.

my point being that from my experience you can't teach these type of people to be a 'hard man', its not in their character. not saying they can't learn to fight, just imo trying to emulate a 'known hard man' won't work

Agree with you 100%. The training is not designed to create hard men or women for that matter. You can deliver the knowledge, how the person uses it, is up to them.
Teaching some one a skill is easy, teaching someone a mindset can be impossible, it really depends on the structure and make up of the persons pysche.

Millionaire

I am attracted to this type of training too, only because it is functional, and it works (in my experience and alone).

While I do think that these guys Lee Morrisson etc. have worked doors for years, and faced down violent nutters, is relevant, I am not attracted to the training because of the perceived heroism of working doors, or strking back at bullies.

Indeed I did some door work in the past (but not alot), and I found it to be a terrible job. boring, thankless, everyone else inside the venue is have a good time and some percieve you as there to feck it up..(ya know... telling drunk people to stop dancing on the tables, sort of stuff), and some of my "colleagues" were the most moranic people I have ever met, especially some of the body builder types. all in all watching paint dry would be more fun. (for me, based on my experience).

For example kickboxing is good (my main background), and one day I realised my hands were wrapped, and I had 16oz gloves on.... now that ain't pratical training for a SD situation. (sorry mugger, just hold on 5 mins, until I wrap my hands and I will hit you).

so what these guys offer in training, looked very practical to the fundmentals I learned in boxing, what they teach (e.g. palm strikes, slaps, elbows, knees, the fence, pre fight training, aggression training etc...) all bolts very nicely on top of the kickboxing training.

Baggio...

john kavanagh wrote:

my point being that from my experience you can't teach these type of people to be a 'hard man', its not in their character. not saying they can't learn to fight, just imo trying to emulate a 'known hard man' won't work.

I don't think it's really about trying to become a "hard man" or just to emulating one. I don't want to ever become like some of those guys.
As a few of them were just considered to be "thug doorman" (not mentioning any names).

But the point is, a great many of them have vast experience and understand the nature of violence - so a lot of them provide very functional and realistic training. So I see nothing wrong with learning from someone who has plenty of experience (it's the only way). You just take the parts you need.

Just my two cents...

john kavanagh

Jon wrote:

Teaching some one a skill is easy, teaching someone a mindset can be impossible, it really depends on the structure and make up of the persons pysche.

yes thats the point i was making, agree 100%