New model Corolla Saloon

colm_mcm

Toyota unveiled this at the Chinese motor show. Expected to be the same model as will be sold in Europe.

Power is expected to come from the same lineup as the Auris hatchback - i.e 1.4 D-4D and VVT-i. 1.6 Dual VVT-i and 2.0 D-4D along with the 2.2 D-4D bith from the Avensis.

5 star safety is to be expected, expect 9 airbags as seen in Rav4, Yaris and Avensis.

rear styling taking some cues from Lexus IS and 97-02 model Corolla. very similar to outgoing Altis model.

Interior likely to be similar to Auris.

maidhc

I really like it.

bazz26

Looks very similar in size to the current Avensis. The front looks similar to the Civic saloon to me:

Andrewf20

I think it looks bland, especially the side.

maidhc

bazz26 wrote:

Looks very similar in size to the current Avensis. The front looks similar to the Civic saloon to me:

It is very like the Civic saloon. It actually isn't all that different looking from the current US spec Corolla.

ciarsd

Could it get/be anymore boring.

Granted they are a complete winner, expecially in Ireland - I just don't see the attraction whatsoever.

colm_mcm

If you want excitement in the looks department, buy a Focus saloon or a Jetta....

eamon234

Is it me or have they just nicked some of the already bland styling from the Lexus?

I'll bet Farmer's wives everywhere are wetting themselves as we speak

ciarsd

colm_mcm wrote:

excitement ... looks department ... a Focus saloon or a Jetta....

your having a laugh - right? :eek:

@ eamon - correct-a-mundo

bazz26

eamon234 wrote:

I'll bet Farmer's wives everywhere are wetting themselves as we speak

Na, the Skoda Octavia with a tow bar does that for them.

bazz26

ciarsd wrote:

your having a laugh - right? :eek:

I think he may have been a bit sarcy.

Tbh there are very few "pretty" cars in this market segment.

Cars like this are built because there is strong demand for them. Generally Toyota are very good at selling people what they want. 30 million or so Corollas sold since the 1960s kind of proves that they are on to something there.

sofireland

Looks much better than the existing corolla saloon thats for sure...

When is that expected to reach these shores? The Auris what about taht?

Panda Moanium

Should continue Toyota's fine tradition of selling cars to people who don't really like cars...

Henry Ford III

Panda Moanium wrote:

Should continue Toyota's fine tradition of selling cars to people who don't really like cars...

Very good.

ninty9er

Panda Moanium wrote:

Should continue Toyota's fine tradition of selling cars to people who don't really like cars...

Thats why GM; banding Saab, Opel, Chevy, Vauxhall, GMC, Buick, Pontiac, Hummer etc have haemorraged €5 billion between Jan and December last year.
Ford are not too far behind, yet Toyota had their best year ever, with the US providing a lot of profit for them. If the yanks won't buy American, why should we...

My Accounting lecturer reckoned today GM has 22 months left before they have to disappear off the face of the earth at the current cash burn rate and the rate it's selling off debtors at a discount.

Toyota are doing something right, and not just for people who don't like cars....

unkel

Panda Moanium wrote:

Should continue Toyota's fine tradition of selling cars to people who don't really like cars...

Well the reality is that most people don't care about their car as long as it doesn't break down, gets them from A to B and doesn't cost too much overall. Toyota are better than any other car maker in catering for these people. Isn't 2006 the year that Toyota will produce more cars than any other manufacturer in the world?

That said, I am not in above group. Toyotas are not for me. And as for the new Corolla - apart from the back which is ok, I feel it looks horrible. Cheaper looking and worse in general even than anything Korean. Why don't they employ Europeans (Italians) to design their cars? Surely some people in the above group who are potential buyers are turned off by these looks?

bazz26

Panda Moanium wrote:

Should continue Toyota's fine tradition of selling cars to people who don't really like cars...

They totally missed out on those who have never driven or owned one but have a world of armchair motoring expertise on the subject just by reading someone else's review on a website, tv program or magazine.

Panda Moanium

bazz26 wrote:

They totally missed out on those who have never driven or owned one but have a world of armchair motoring expertise on the subject just by reading someone else's review on a website, tv program or magazine.

Well actually I do form my own opinions...it's my job to do so. I'm a transport journalist by occupation and have different cars on test every week. So I feel reasonably well qualified to form my own opinions!

And yes, I have driven, extensively, every Corolla from the first front wheel drive version on.

Now let me be clear, there is very little wrong with the Toyota Corolla. It is relatively cheap to buy, it holds its value well, its reliable, practical, comfortable etc. Its not hard to work out why it is popular.

But the point I was making is that for people who genuinely like cars, who get a buzz out of driving, who like to get feedback about what the steering is really doing, who can tell a good chassis from an ok one....then the Corolla just doesn't hit the mark. Its anonymous from a driving perspective. It has no real character or soul. Everything is neutral about it, from the handling to the too light controls to the interior.

You don't drive a Corolla for motoring pleasure, rather as a means to get from A to B.

In comparison, a Focus or a Golf offer a far more involved driving experience, even in bog standard 1.4l form

You know whenever I have had one on test for a week I have quite liked it. Its an easy car to live with, and if you never drove anything else you would probably wonder what people are on about when they criticise it. Its just that there are a lot of other cars out there with more driver appeal.

Just my opinion of course.......:)

Henry Ford III

I had a Corolla in the early 1990's. Co. car.

I just hated it. It had poor levels of equipment, and was a real middle of the road car in every respect bar one, and that despite my trying to kill it at all times.

Unbelievably tough. Light and simpple and probably made of rice paper, but it never failed once.

Think of their mass market cars as domestic appliances. They do their job. Nothing more. A fridge. I've never driven a fridge but I could imagine what it'd be like.

That IS220D is more of a washing machine however (with a bearing gone in the motor)

p.s. On a corporate front good luck to them. If they can make more cars and earn more profits good for them.

bazz26

Panda Moanium wrote:

Well actually I do form my own opinions...it's my job to do so. I'm a transport journalist by occupation and have different cars on test every week. So I feel reasonably well qualified to form my own opinions!

And yes, I have driven, extensively, every Corolla from the first front wheel drive version on.

Now let me be clear, there is very little wrong with the Toyota Corolla. It is relatively cheap to buy, it holds its value well, its reliable, practical, comfortable etc. Its not hard to work out why it is popular.

But the point I was making is that for people who genuinely like cars, who get a buzz out of driving, who like to get feedback about what the steering is really doing, who can tell a good chassis from an ok one....then the Corolla just doesn't hit the mark. Its anonymous from a driving perspective. It has no real character or soul. Everything is neutral about it, from the handling to the too light controls to the interior.

You don't drive a Corolla for motoring pleasure, rather as a means to get from A to B.

In comparison, a Focus or a Golf offer a far more involved driving experience, even in bog standard 1.4l form

You know whenever I have had one on test for a week I have quite liked it. Its an easy car to live with, and if you never drove anything else you would probably wonder what people are on about when they criticise it. Its just that there are a lot of other cars out there with more driver appeal.

Just my opinion of course.......:)

Should have made myself a bit clearer. Wasn't having a go at you in particular, just used your comment as an example. You are indeed entitled to your opinion.

However a certain element of the motoring press, call them Clarkson wantabes, totally dismiss the Corolla from the off . Judging a book by it's cover, to use a metafore. I also have driven the Focus and Golf in 1.4 litre and 1.6 litre form and I can tell you they are nothing to right home about. Good handling is all good and great but with only 75bhp - 80bhp under the bonnet would it make any difference in a small family hatchback or saloon. I found these cars to be weak in one area where it matters to me, under the bonnet. It was like they were pretending to be something they obviously were not. Also I would like to know out all the people who buy 1.4 or 1.6 Focus and Golfs, buy them because they are great cars to drive and give you a buzz from doing so.

At the end of the day the Corolla does exactly what it is says on the tin, nothing more or nothing less. It's practical, economical, safe, comfortable, has a good resale value and goes forever. These are what most customers want from this type of car and as long as Toyota keep pushing this philosophy then it will always be a winner for them.

Mojito

Panda Moanium wrote:

I'm a transport journalist by occupation

Not a very good one. Don't make an opinion till you drive it.

Mojito

bazz26 wrote:

Should have made myself a bit clearer. Wasn't having a go at you in particular, just used your comment as an example. You are indeed entitled to your opinion.

However a certain element of the motoring press, call them Clarkson wantabes, totally dismiss the Corolla from the off . Judging a book by it's cover, to use a metafore. I also have driven the Focus and Golf in 1.4 litre and 1.6 litre form and I can tell you they are nothing to right home about. Good handling is all good and great but with only 75bhp - 80bhp under the bonnet would it make any difference in a small family hatchback or saloon. I found these cars to be weak in one area where it matters to me, under the bonnet. It was like they were pretending to be something they obviously were not. Also I would like to know out all the people who buy 1.4 or 1.6 Focus and Golfs, buy them because they are great cars to drive and give you a buzz from doing so.

At the end of the day the Corolla does exactly what it is says on the tin, nothing more or nothing less. It's practical, economical, safe, comfortable, has a good resale value and goes forever. These are what most customers want from this type of car and as long as Toyota keep pushing this philosophy then it will always be a winner for them.

Well said! You should the journalist your post make a lot more sense. Anyone looking for a "buzz out of driving" will be looking for a car with a little more power than 75bhp. The majority of those car buyers are just looking to get from A-B.

colm_mcm

I reckon the 1.6 engine will be a cracker, dual VVT-i and 120bhp is good for a run of the mill saloon. I'm not about to compare it to a VTEC or MIVEC, in case someone gives the inevitable response that these engines are more powerful....

G Luxel

This is the estate version. Ok so the one for ireland will be very slightly different cosmetically, but I dont think toyota are going to make different designs of estates the world over. I think the corolla saloon has got hints of IS 2oo present model and the Volkswagen Jetta 06. Hopefully there wont be a bee sting aerial as it looks hideous on the car. The previous version did not have this standard in some countries, either there was an A pillar mounted aerial or none at all. It looks like all the corollas arriving here will be from Turkey....:mad:

colm_mcm

that seemss to be a Corolla Fielder, which is based on the JDM Corolla, which is a completely different model to the one we're getting.

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote:

I reckon the 1.6 engine will be a cracker, dual VVT-i and 120bhp is good for a run of the mill saloon. I'm not about to compare it to a VTEC or MIVEC, in case someone gives the inevitable response that these engines are more powerful....

Yes, I reckon that dual VVTi will find it's way into the next Avensis too. Might be a slow seller in the Corolla in Ireland though.

colm_mcm

yeah, hopefully the Avensis and Corolla Verso get the new 1.6. the existing VVT-i with 110bhp is pretty good for its size, but the extra grunt might tempt more people out of 1.8 models

EDIT: The 1.6 only sells in Automatic on the Corolla at the moment, it's available in manual on the Corolla Tourer, but it's a slow seller. Given that the car is bigger, and that the Jetta comes with 1.6 it'll probably sell a few in saloon form.

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote:

yeah, hopefully the Avensis and Corolla Verso get the new 1.6. the existing VVT-i with 110bhp is pretty good for its size, but the extra grunt might tempt more people out of 1.8 models

EDIT: The 1.6 only sells in Automatic on the Corolla at the moment, it's available in manual on the Corolla Tourer, but it's a slow seller. Given that the car is bigger, and that the Jetta comes with 1.6 it'll probably sell a few in saloon form.

Any idea what way the dual VVTi works over the standard engine?

colm_mcm

Dual VVT-i adjusts exhaust camshaft too as well as the intake. it's not the same as VVTL-i which adjusts the valve lift and how long it stays open.

G Luxel

There is a hint of yaris and New Camry (not available in Europe) in this car.
I hope that this interior colour is standard on the Corolla for Ireland. I hate the black interior that is always present in corollas from the dashboard to sterring wheels to the seating and carpet, all in one colour black. Corolla interiors for here need brighting up aka Mercedes or BMW.

damo605

Panda Moanium wrote:

who like to get feedback about what the steering is really doing

This is what I can't understand about motor journalists reviewing a car for Irish roads.... Who in their right mind wants to 'know' what the steering is really doing here? What's it doing? It's trying to cope with the imperfections, potholes and general sh1te road surface :rolleyes:
Fair enough on the continent or on a race track but on your average Irish road I'll take a Corolla (which is nicely devoid of 'road feel') any day than a BMW or the like whose steering wheel is continuously hopping out of you hand giving you 'feedback' about how crap the road is!

colm_mcm

G Luxel wrote:

[ I hate the black interior that is always present in corollas from the dashboard to sterring wheels to the seating and carpet, all in one colour black. Corolla interiors for here need brighting up aka Mercedes or BMW.

should continue in the tradition of black interiors for all but the top spec cars with an option of beige dash on models with ivory leather interior - that's usually the way they do it.

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote:

...I also have driven the Focus and Golf in 1.4 litre and 1.6 litre form and I can tell you they are nothing to right home about. Good handling is all good and great but with only 75bhp - 80bhp under the bonnet would it make any difference in a small family hatchback or saloon. I found these cars to be weak in one area where it matters to me, under the bonnet....

The Focus and Golf 1.4 engines are c.75-80 bhp, and the 1.6's c.100 bhp. The former are adequate and the latter can be very entertaining to drive.

Could you not tell the difference?

bazz26

Henry Ford III wrote:

The Focus and Golf 1.4 engines are c.75-80 bhp, and the 1.6's c.100 bhp. The former are adequate and the latter can be very entertaining to drive.

Could you not tell the difference?

80bhp from a 1.4 litre or 100bhp from a 1.6 litre engine is nothing to write home imo about and I certainly would not call it entertaining. Granted the 1.6 litre in the Focus is miles ahead of the 1.4 but still hardly ground breaking technology.

And I have driven enough cars in my time (not just one brand) to know what is important to me in a car. Yes the Focus is a good handling car, as you keep tell us alot but my point is about 9 out of 10 owners don't buy the Focus, etc because it handles great, gives you a warm fuzzy feeling down your leg or gives you a trill. To be honest I don't feel the need for a car to do this for me but everyone to their own. Most buy these type cars because they are reliable, roomie, safe, practical and economical. They are medium family cars not sport saloons, if sharp handling is the utmost importance to you then one shouldn't be looking at 80 or 100bhp family hatchbacks.

Yes Ford have spent alot of time developing their good chassis but they spend less time on other equally important areas such as style and cabin design. In this area the Focus, Mondeo, etc are just as weak as some other makes.

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote:

80bhp from a 1.4 litre or 100bhp from a 1.6 litre engine is nothing to write home imo about and I certainly would not call it entertaining. Granted the 1.6 litre in the Focus is miles ahead of the 1.4 but still hardly ground breaking technology. I never said the power outputs were cutting edge. The point of these 1.6's however is that they can do the shopping trips, the school runs, and all the mundane tasks, and a well driven one is more than able to hustle along at a good pace due to superior handling and chassis dynamics.

And I have driven enough cars in my time (not just one brand) to know what is important to me in a car. No disputing that Yes the Focus is a good handling car, as you keep tell us alot but my point is about 9 out of 10 owners don't buy the Focus, etc because it handles great, gives you a warm fuzzy feeling down your leg or gives you a trill. See above. To be honest I don't feel the need for a car to do this for me but everyone to their own. Most buy these type cars because they are reliable, roomie, safe, practical and economical. They are medium family cars not sport saloons, if sharp handling is the utmost importance to you then one shouldn't be looking at 80 or 100bhp family hatchbacks. I think you are missing the point. The sharp handling is thrown in free and it's what differentiates this car from other competent but bland rivals. You don't need 225 bhp to have a fine handling car. A good friend and a superb driver says it's much more fun to drive a slow car quickly.

Yes Ford have spent alot of time developing their good chassis but they spend less time on other equally important areas such as style and cabin design. In this area the Focus, Mondeo, etc are just as weak as some other makes.

A matter of opinion. Mondeo is due for imminent replacement in any event. Current Focus is near or at the top of it's class.

bazz26

Henry Ford III wrote:

I never said the power outputs were cutting edge. The point of these 1.6's however is that they can do the shopping trips, the school runs, and all the mundane tasks, and a well driven one is more than able to hustle along at a good pace due to superior handling and chassis dynamics.

This is my point exactly, these cars are mostly used for the purpose you mentioned and 99% of their owners will never throw them around corners to judge how good they stick to the road.

So I am still of the opinion that sharp handling is not of utmost importance in this class car to 99% of their owners whether it be Corolla, Focus, Golf, Astra, etc. To the other 1% it maybe though.

colm_mcm

It'll be geting 9 airbags as standard. presumably 5 star. Heard aircon won't be on base models though

maidhc

bazz26 wrote:

So I am still of the opinion that sharp handling is not of utmost importance in this class car to 99% of their owners whether it be Corolla, Focus, Golf, Astra, etc. To the other 1% it maybe though.

People do notice though. Even my mother notices that the Avensis is "not as steady" as the Mondeo. Likewise my cousin is selling his Corolla because "it is horrible to drive".

On the other hand a colleague who knows nothing about cars got a cheap 2.0 Alfa 156 and raves about how much he likes driving it, even though he is broke from cambelts, petrol and expensive tyres.

ando

looks very very boring, dull and bland.. but yea its a winner for ppl that want to go from A-B

zilog_jones

colm_mcm wrote:

that seemss to be a Corolla Fielder, which is based on the JDM Corolla, which is a completely different model to the one we're getting.

Erm, the current Corolla estate we get here is pretty much identical to the old Corolla Fielder (there wasn't really any other Corolla estate in Japan since the crappy old E100 "wagon"), and the new Corolla Axio (the Corolla saloon being sold in Japan now) looks pretty much identical to the pictures of the saloon above, not to mention the front of the new Fielder is the same too. What's "completely different" then, and why do you think we'll get something different?

colm_mcm

The JDM Corolla and the one we're getting are different sizes, the European one is bigger. Also there hasn't been confirmation of a new estate Corolla (AFAIK)

G Luxel

Probably the only differences will be the interior, especially the dashboard, which on the previous model was slightly different to the European versions.
I dont see anything different in the sizes of both market cars. A different grille and maybe the headlights. Note that the previous model (NZE 121)had two different wheel sizes in the japanese market,13'' with no hubcaps. 14" with hubcaps and 15" with alloys.

colm_mcm

Jaysus, you're a wealth of information!
there are pics of the dash on toyota.ie by the way