advice please ty

bops

early stages of a live 200 mtt

Blinds 50/100 effective stacks 20k

lots of limping and people betting with middle pair (!!)

after a few limpers i get KJ on the SB

I limp (?)

Flop K98 rainbow (Pot 600)

I Check (?)
UTG bets 400
I call (?) - should I reraise here??

We are now heads up
he has been hitting every hand with muck and has limped with any 2 cards
he also bluffs alot
if i had to put him on a hand i would say either K rag or 98 even!! he has something more than air here i think

Turn K (Pot 1400)
I check (?)
UTG bets 2000
I call (?)

Now I am fairly certain im in front!! - should I reraise here??

River 4 (Pot 5400)
I check (?)
UTG bets 7000
my move??

El Stuntman

bops wrote:

early stages of a live 200 mtt

Blinds 50/100 effective stacks 20k

lots of limping and people betting with middle pair (!!)

after a few limpers i get KJ on the SB

I limp (?)

Flop K98 rainbow (Pot 600)

I Check (?)
UTG bets 400
I call (?) - should I reraise here??

We are now heads up
he has been hitting every hand with muck and has limped with any 2 cards
he also bluffs alot
if i had to put him on a hand i would say either K rag or 98 even!! he has something more than air here i think

Turn K (Pot 1400)
I check (?)
UTG bets 2000
I call (?)

Now I am fairly certain im in front!! - should I reraise here??

River 4 (Pot 5400)
I check (?)
UTG bets 7000
my move??

KJ's a bit of a premium hand for you bops? surely you fold this pre-flop as you prefer the old 84sooted type hands for some top notch dogging?

I reckon UTG hit a set of 8s on the flop and filled a boat on the turn, either that or he has a K with your kicker dominated (edit: or AA, badly played)

sikes

bops wrote:

Now I am fairly certain im in front!! - should I reraise here??

if you are fairly certain you are in front then you should raise here as you are going to have to value bet a blank river anyway. i wouldnt be so sure ur in front though.

Hitman Actual

Looks like a crazy game. We really need more info on the player (betting patterns, etc). How bad a player is he? Do you really think he bets on three streets with a hand you're ahead of? The paired board should be slowing him down. And he has to know you have something, although I'm not sure what your image might be. If you think he will bet often enough for "value" with a king and a weaker kicker, then it's a call.

Hectorjelly

jesus guys, read the OP. the guy is capable of betting any type of hand here. The only hands that beat bops are AK, KQ, 88 or 99. All of which would almost certainly be raised preflop (bar KQ). He almost definitely does not have a king, but if he does its a worse one. HE IS ON THE BB!

i think the turn is the worse place to raise. Just let him keep betting and raise the river all in.

ligger

bops wrote:

early stages of a live 200 mtt


Turn K (Pot 1400)
I check (?)
UTG bets 2000
I call (?)

Now I am fairly certain im in front!! - should I reraise here??

River 4 (Pot 5400)
I check (?)
UTG bets 7000
my move??

If you think you are in front on the Turn then surely the 4 is not helping (K4 maybe) then stick all your chips in over his river bet. What else would change your mind from the turn?

bops

Hectorjelly wrote:

HE IS ON THE BB!

he's UTG, but may as well be the BB he would limp with any 2 cards

it was early days and i was seen to be playing senseable (lol)

Hitman Actual

Hectorjelly wrote:

jesus guys, read the OP. the guy is capable of betting any type of hand here. The only hands that beat bops are AK, KQ, 88 or 99.

What about K8, K9, K4? They're the hands I'm (half) worried about. I agree he can bet any hand, and you're not folding that river, but he would have to be one hell of a terrible player to call a raise AI on the river. (edit: with a hand that KJ is ahead of).

sikes

Hectorjelly wrote:

i think the turn is the worse place to raise. Just let him keep betting and raise the river all in.

i think we should be value betting the river here, so thats why i think raising the turn is best.

obviously if we are sure he is betting the river then check/call crai is best

bops

ligger wrote:

If you think you are in front on the Turn then surely the 4 is not helping (K4 maybe) then stick all your chips in over his river bet. What else would change your mind from the turn?

when he bet the river (it was a very large bet for this early in the tourney) it told me either he had a monster or nothing - he was more than capable of making this play with both.

so it was call/fold for me

ligger

bops wrote:

when he bet the river (it was a very large bet for this early in the tourney) it told me either he had a monster or nothing - he was more than capable of making this play with both.

so it was call/fold for me

So do you change your opinion that you were ahead on the Turn? or do you think the 4 helps him? K4, or god forbid PK 44 calling station...

Hectorjelly

lenny_leonard wrote:

What about K8, K9, K4? They're the hands I'm (half) worried about. I agree he can bet any hand, and you're not folding that river, but he would have to be one hell of a terrible player to call a raise AI on the river. (edit: with a hand that KJ is ahead of).

Very few players would fold a king there. Would you fold a king to bops there?


I left out 44 K8 and K9 because they are next to impossible considering the play of the hand, and it is far more likely his opponent has an unpaired king if he does have a king.


Just saw that he was BB and not utg. Makes it a bit more likely he has us beaten. I think I would still push though.

bops

ligger wrote:

So do you change your opinion that you were ahead on the Turn? or do you think the 4 helps him? K4, or god forbid PK 44 calling station...

the bet on the river made me think "fk maybe im not ahead u muppet bops!"
the 4 was a nice blank

bops

i checked the river coz i knew he would have a stab at it - 3/4k

Hectorjelly

Well if that bet really means he either has nothing or has a monster than you have to call him bops. What happened?

ligger

bops wrote:

the bet on the river made me think "fk maybe im not ahead u muppet bops!"
the 4 was a nice blank

Sound. In this case I would fold you have about 10% of your stack in there but it will cost you another 30% to call. I fold and get him in the long grass..:)

bops

Hectorjelly wrote:

Well if that bet really means he either has nothing or has a monster than you have to call him bops. What happened?

...before i say im just wondering nobody has said that i played it arseways (new for me!)

I called the river

...so did i play it ok????


EDIT: not lookin for self-esteem boost here!!

Hectorjelly

ligger wrote:

Sound. In this case I would fold you have about 10% of your stack in there but it will cost you another 30% to call. I fold and get him in the long grass..:)

excellent reasoning. What % of your stack would have to be in there to call with trips second kicker? I usualyy find if I have more than 27% it can be profitable to call with. And if its autumn and the long grass has receded slightly would a call be slightly more palatable?

ligger

Hectorjelly wrote:

excellent reasoning. What % of your stack would have to be in there to call with trips second kicker? I usualyy find if I have more than 27% it can be profitable to call with. And if its autumn and the long grass has receded slightly would a call be slightly more palatable?

Trips 3rd kicker.. 2nd kicker and I would have pushed..;)

Hectorjelly

ligger wrote:

Trips 3rd kicker.. 2nd kicker and I would have pushed..;)

That doesnt make much sense though, even if you you are specifically worried about KQ.

Hitman Actual

Hectorjelly wrote:

Very few players would fold a king there. Would you fold a king to bops there?

For a start, I'd never be in that spot with a weak king anyway. But hypothetically speaking, I'd seriously consider folding to an AI. From my POV, I've just bet on three streets and been called all the way, and then RAI. Crazy and all as bops would have us believe he is, I'd have to give him credit for something better than my weak king.

Hectorjelly

lenny_leonard wrote:

For a start, I'd never be in that spot with a weak king anyway. But hypothetically speaking, I'd seriously consider folding to an AI. From my POV, I've just bet on three streets and been called all the way, and then RAI. Crazy and all as bops would have us believe he is, I'd have to give him credit for something better than my weak king.

No. From playing with bops in the past I would call there with any high king and be confident I was ahead. You may fold, but you are a rare breed of tight/good player that is not found that much (thank god!). I guarantee you that most average players who play tournaments there are never getting away from a king. They would think for a while and say, wtf I have trips I call. I would be worried about KQ and AK, but there are far more hands that can call that KJ beats so its a profitable thing to do. You may get a stubborn call from TT or AA or some weird hand.

ianmc38

Against Bops I'd probably call with the 4.

bops

he had K4 (of course!!)

I just don't know if i should have CRAI on the turn??
or folded to the bet on the river??

I don't think i was unlucky at all - more like stupid - handing it to him on a plate


ty for advice

El Stuntman

well at least I got the boat bit right....

K4 UTG ffs :eek:

bops, you were bopsed!!

Gholimoli

i cant see the big hupe abt this at all.
the guy bluffs alot.
the guy limps with any two.
you make TP on the flop,you check to him cuz be bets.excellent
he bets you call.excellent
you make trips on turn .you check cuz he bets.excellent.
he bets you call again.this is good too.
he bets.
now against him how good exactly does your hand have to be do you think to warant a move in?
but the move in IMO is only correct if you think he has a wide calling range.
i mean i know he bluffs alot but does he over value hands too and would he call here say with other hands than K or a house?
i dont even know if im making sense.

bops

hang on - did you (gholi) just state that all my moves were good??

something is very wrong here - maybe ye guys have finally broken me!!

tyvm all the same gholi

...maybe my sarcometer is busted again??

HJ was also pleasant...hmmmmm

...i'm away to the doctors

bops

on second thoughts maybe i did something right for once!!

COOL!!!!!!

ianmc38

I think it's fairly clear what's happened Bops. You challenged HectorJelly and Gholimoli to a grudge match. Both are now being pleasant to you. Seems a little bit too much of a coincidence.

azzeretti

Hectorjelly wrote:

i think the turn is the worse place to raise. Just let him keep betting and raise the river all in.

HJ, can you explain you're reasoning a bit more on this?

For the example Bops gives of the type of player involved, I would have thought the turn would have been the best place to raise?

Hectorjelly

azzeretti wrote:

HJ, can you explain you're reasoning a bit more on this?

For the example Bops gives of the type of player involved, I would have thought the turn would have been the best place to raise?

They guy likes to bluff and bet second rate hands, a raise on the turn just says hey look, I have trips.

azzeretti

Hectorjelly wrote:

They guy likes to bluff and bet second rate hands, a raise on the turn just says hey look, I have trips.

Right. I can see what you mean. But isn't it also giving him a relativley cheap river card, depending on what he leads out with? And in turn, risking exactly what happened to Bops?

Hectorjelly

azzeretti wrote:

Right. I can see what you mean. But isn't it also giving him a relativley cheap river card, depending on what he leads out with? And in turn, risking exactly what happened to Bops?

No not at all. The pot is still small and we need give him plenty of rope to hang himself. Our hand no longer needs protecting, a king is never going anywhere anyway so it makes no difference whether we get all in now or on the river.

Hectorjelly

also if you read the hh he overbet the pot anyway

cardshark202

I think this hand was played well. Just unlucky he had K4.

nicnicnic

bops was the hand against our friend who was later in the night betting €600 blind in the €1/€2 cash game

kakak1

nicnicnic wrote:

bops was the hand against our friend who was later in the night betting €600 blind in the €1/€2 cash game

give me a few days to work out who that might be

bops

nicnicnic wrote:

bops was the hand against our friend who was later in the night betting €600 blind in the €1/€2 cash game

lol nicky - yep it was him alright - such a class player