whose pushing?

nicnicnic

same tourney as straddlefor6, blazinaces €200 monthly my main, danger bops is gone in a very credible 19th of the 32 runners(thats good for him).


were down to 5, prizes 1st 3300 2 1300 3 800 4 400 5 200

CL has 240k me 180k other 3 players have 220 between them and are pretty evenly matched


Blinds are 8k/4k


I'm BB and CL raises from button for 32k I've got Ah 9D

CL is inexperienced player not frightened to put his chips in. I think he is an ok player but very straight forward. He has been raising with any A any 2 pictures any pair. I have stayed out of his way up until now folding AJ and A10 to his raises and seen A6 and kJ

I have knocked out the last 2 players getting me from 60 to my 180 and now its 5 handed feel its time to change the dynamics of the table and take it up a gear having been very tight up till now.

his usual raise has been 3x so the 4x bet implies a little weakness to me so i decide to take the flop. Ks Qs 9s

I decide to check and he bets 25k after a good think. Now as i said he is a straight forward player and this is clear weakness to me and in no way a cunning ploy to entice a push. I think he has a small pair now and tell him his eights are no good he immediately answers there much better then that. Now i believe he has a pair and totally exclude AA KK QQ 99, he simply bets more on the flop with any of these. I've now got his hand 1010 or JJ with 50/50 chance of the 10orJs.


there's 93k in the middle, whose pushing ?

bops

please tell me you didn't push there!?!? ffs i wouldn't even do that!! - i'd call that a brain-fart

btw i decided to exit early from the tourney - i couldn't keep my eyes of all the piles of free money on the cash tables, anyways it would be bad for my image to take it down

PPS 17th

El Stuntman

that's some payout structure!!

BigCityBanker

I fold preflop.

as stand fold now - if he is the player you describe him to be then you will get better opportunities to stack him.

nicnicnic

bops wrote:

please tell me you didn't push there!?!? ffs i wouldn't even do that!! - i'd call that a brain-fart

btw i decided to exit early from the tourney - i couldn't keep my eyes of all the piles of free money on the cash tables, anyways it would be bad for my image to take it down

PPS 17th

yeh i herd you pulled your old 34os trick again. Now bops playing three handed with two elderly ladies who just throw money at people, well if your happy with that sort of thing. Having you ever considered staking out the bingo hall, seeing which old dear wins the jackpot and mugging them on the way home!

bops

nicnicnic wrote:

yeh i herd you pulled your old 34os trick again. Now bops playing three handed with two elderly ladies who just throw money at people, well if your happy with that sort of thing. Having you ever considered staking out the bingo hall, seeing which old dear wins the jackpot and mugging them on the way home!

they were sooooted...

the ladies had 120+ years of poker experience between them...

...what night is bingo on??

ianmc38

nicnicnic wrote:

Having you ever considered staking out the bingo hall, seeing which old dear wins the jackpot and mugging them on the way home!

Is there any places left for this team event? Definitely interested. Please send PM.

bops

ianmc38 wrote:

Is there any places left for this team event? Definitely interested. Please send PM.

PM sent - awaiting date/time

kakak1

bops wrote:

they were sooooted...

the ladies had 120+ years of poker experience between them...

...what night is bingo on??

those old ladies are soooooted to very little in fact:p

mdwexford

if i was you i would have waited nic, you'll surely get a better chance to get those chips. if you pass you're still second in chips.

if the guy has j-j with the jack of spades hes not dropping it anyway, so really you're hoping he has a-j or 10-10 with no spade.


that prize structure is very top heavy alright, 55% for 1st

nicnicnic

mdwexford wrote:

if i was you i would have waited nic, you'll surely get a better chance to get those chips. if you pass you're still second in chips.

if the guy has j-j with the jack of spades hes not dropping it anyway, so really you're hoping he has a-j or 10-10 with no spade.


that prize structure is very top heavy alright, 55% for 1st

you gotta like the structure mick:) would you even consider calling with j-js here for a 120k raise third pair and drawing to the second nut flush with a flush on the board after getting a raise called pre flop. I fold 110% of the time

mdwexford

payout structure your idea by any chance, lol...??

but would the average player in that tourney pass jx-js in that spot, hes only in bad shape if you have the nut flush draw or a made flush, and if you have a made non nut flush hes only a 2-1ish dog and hes getting about 7-4 pot odds.

with the skill advantage you had over the rest of the field surely you could have mucked unless you were really positive you werent gonna get a push called??

Wombatman

1st 3300 2 1300 3 800 4 400 5 200 = 6000
32 * 200 = 6400

Was the €200 including reg money or did the €400 go else where?

Hitman Actual

nicnicnic wrote:

I fold 110% of the time

Yeah, but what about this guy? Pushing 140 to win 101 means you need him to fold a lot of the time (~60%, I think, but that's just a quick look at the maths). And it's not just a straight chip EV situation. The times he calls you and knocks you out, you only win €200. So when he folds, your 'share' of the prize pool has to go up enough to compensate for those crappy €200 payoffs. I don't know if it's worth it.

Plus he's chip leader, and you really don't want to tangle with him with something marginal. And I'm sure he knows you're good enough to try and take the pot away from him with something he's ahead of. And he's inexperienced, so while that should make it easier for him to lay down a hand (intimidation factor), it also makes him slightly unpredictable.

Edit: And that's a horrible prize structure!

nicnicnic

Wombatman wrote:

1st 3300 2 1300 3 800 4 400 5 200 = 6000
32 * 200 = 6400

Was the €200 including reg money or did the €400 go else where?

there was a €20 reg , but there was two guest players and I'd imagine this covered there entry.


I just loved the payout structure

kakak1

nicnicnic wrote:

there was a €20 reg , but there was two guest players and I'd imagine this covered there entry.


I just loved the payout structure

i think there were either 29 or 30 players, only 3 table & don't think there was 11 at any table. The 29/30 included the 2 guests.

I was out of it before the prize structure was announced so no need for me to get involved at the time but I thought it was way top heavy and if I'm correct there was no 5th prize so a deal must have been done at the FT.

TheRock

With your stack, I just dont think you need to get involved in this spot Nicky.
Your analysis might by right, but you drawing VERY thin in the event that your wrong and your out in 5th.
Wait for a better spot.

What time did this finish up?

kakak1

TheRock wrote:

With your stack, I just dont think you need to get involved in this spot Nicky.
Your analysis might by right, but you drawing VERY thin in the event that your wrong and your out in 5th.
Wait for a better spot.

What time did this finish up?

I left at about 5.00am (I was watching for quite some time) with still 7 players. Still cant't find out who won/2nd/3rd

nicnicnic

TheRock wrote:

With your stack, I just dont think you need to get involved in this spot Nicky.
Your analysis might by right, but you drawing VERY thin in the event that your wrong and your out in 5th.
Wait for a better spot.

What time did this finish up?

its obvious now that i pushed and got called by 1010s. the only mistake i made in the hand was i thought the opponent was good enough to fold, it was no read he had on me. he simply saw his own two cards and made the call with no consideration of what my hand could be. on such a coordinated board my push must a worst seem a protection bet of two pair or a straight.

this wait for a better moment stuff is not me when i get five handed. I'm about 95% sure. I'm getting through here reversing the chip lead, Ive played good tight aggressive poker to get to this stage now I'm changing gears and driving taking over the table. You cannot dominate the latter stages of a tournament by waiting.

I have no doubt that if i post this hand from the 1010 side that not one person recommends a call.


Dave there was 32 runners 11 on table 2 moved 11th moved to our table when i knocked bosco out, then Chris was late and 11 on table two again

bops

it finished up around 6am
lorcan finished 2nd for 1300 i think
i dunno the name of the young fella who won it

i walked in home when the missus was going out the door to work...im in the good books :eek:

Hitman Actual

nicnicnic wrote:

I have no doubt that if i post this hand from the 1010 side that not one person recommends a call.

Except if we knew it was you doing the pushing.

kakak1

nicnicnic wrote:

its obvious now that i pushed and got called by 1010s. the only mistake i made in the hand was i thought the opponent was good enough to fold, it was no read he had on me. he simply saw his own two cards and made the call with no consideration of what my hand could be. on such a coordinated board my push must a worst seem a protection bet of two pair or a straight.

this wait for a better moment stuff is not me when i get five handed. I'm about 95% sure. I'm getting through here reversing the chip lead, Ive played good tight aggressive poker to get to this stage now I'm changing gears and driving taking over the table. You cannot dominate the latter stages of a tournament by waiting.

I have no doubt that if i post this hand from the 1010 side that not one person recommends a call.




Dave there was 32 runners 11 on table 2 moved 11th moved to our table when i knocked bosco out, then Chris was late and 11 on table two again

ffs who won the fcuking thing

nicnicnic

lenny_leonard wrote:

Except if we knew it was you doing the pushing.

lol


foxs nephew keith won it lorcan 2nd john grant 3rd bobby 4th dopey 5th:rolleyes:

bops

ok the call with TTs was very dodgy, but as many of the above have said you surely could have waited for a better spot than this...just my (highly regarded :eek: ) opinion - fk nicky you know you really cudda outplayed that table without committing yourself like this

I suppose you made the right move against the wrong guy
...i prefer the limp on the button with 56 soooted

kakak1

nicnicnic wrote:

lol


foxs nephew keith won it lorcan 2nd john grant 3rd bobby 4th dopey 5th:rolleyes:

thanks nick, nice win for Keith,

He played some nice hands, has come on a ton. Inclined to agree with the rock, (all us rocks are similar). My reasoning to sit would be it is very difficult to anticipate what an inexperienced player will do especially when at the FT of a relatively big tournament. They don't always see the bigger picture and some times it works in their favour.

As you said yourself, had you posted this from the other side (10, 10) I'm sure you'd be getting a totally different view.

I think you better be thinking of 2 Waterford teams for next year, a lot of players starting to come through. I'd hate to be picking 10.

nicnicnic

bops wrote:

ok the call with TTs was very dodgy, but as many of the above have said you surely could have waited for a better spot than this...just my (highly regarded :eek: ) opinion - fk nicky you know you really cudda outplayed that table without committing yourself like this

I suppose you made the right move against the wrong guy
...i prefer the limp on the button with 56 soooted

ffs i thought i was outplaying them pushing with bottom pair on that board is fairly good imho,I'm 100% I've got his hand as far as i'm concerened I'm picking up 15% of the chips in play without showing my hand. I just dont do this better spot stuff short handed i dont wait. I'll put my stats up against anyone shorthanded when i hit 5 players i win 40 % of the time by not waiting for a better spot.


the 56 was a sweet hand especially the verbals i gave u to stop u pushing on the bb so i could see the flop.

Flipper

awful time to push. Fold and wait for a better time to get your chips in the middle. It might be true that you're leading but this is a horrible flop. I know you though and without reading anything but the first post u definitely pushed!!!

EDIT: I didn't read what the guys hand was when I posted! I just said you MIGHT be leading.

nicnicnic

Flipper wrote:

awful time to push. Fold and wait for a better time to get your chips in the middle. It might be true that you're leading but this is a horrible flop. I know you though and without reading anything but the first post u definately pushed!!!

read it flipper im never leading, cant wait for sky2 now at 11, expect some analysis

TheRock

Firstly, first class read to put him on the hand.:D

Secondly

nicnicnic wrote:

I have no doubt that if i post this hand from the 1010 side that not one person recommends a call.

Yes, if you post this from the other side I probably would be saying fold.
BUT, he's has the 2nd nut flush draw, a straight flush draw, straight draw and is holding a pair. This is a very nice looking hand to an inexperienced player and one I would think an inexperienced player would find impossible to lay down.

nicnicnic wrote:

this wait for a better moment stuff is not me when i get five handed. I'm about 95% sure. I'm getting through here reversing the chip lead, Ive played good tight aggressive poker to get to this stage now I'm changing gears and driving taking over the table. You cannot dominate the latter stages of a tournament by waiting.

I think the amount of SIXPACS your playing is effecting you here Nicky:p . This is not a £30SNG where you playing 3 more at the same time and you get your chips in where you can. This is a MTT where you are already in the money, are clear 2nd in chips, there's a fair bit of play left and you can clearly outplay the rest. Without going into all the EV calculations, I think this is definitely a -EV decision. Your 95% sure you right on his hand, but can you be that sure he'll fold .

Backstreet Moyes

You were unlucky you made a great move and with your chip stack you were the only one who could really damage him so the call was horrible IMO. Maybe against a shorter stack he might call. But i guess it wasnt too bad wasnt looking forward too playing 4 handed with you. But i was gone about two hands later anyway.

nicnicnic

third nut flush draw Alan, without being disrespectful to you, we play very different game and see the game differently. there's room in this game for many styles and it would be terrible boring if we all played the same. As straddlefor6 said to me after the hand this gets through 100% of the time in Drogheda the weekend. Its basically comes down to overestimating my opponent in the hand I'm sure with 6months more experience he doesn't even consider the call, if he bet out more on the flop i probably fold instantly but felt he was asking me to take it away from him.

As I said earlier in the post I'm a finisher of tournaments, while others will stere clear of the other big stacks here i want his chips now, didn't get them thios time but my style is without doubt +ev shorthanded, as the amount of tournaments I win shows.

Bobby unlucky in that hand you played very well all night sir

TheRock

If we all played the same it would be very boring Nicky:D

I completely agree that it was a class play, just against the wrong opponent.

You going to Blazin Aces tonight? Think I might go up.

nicnicnic

TheRock wrote:

If we all played the same it would be very boring Nicky:D

I completely agree that it was a class play, just against the wrong opponent.

You going to Blazin Aces tonight? Think I might go up.

yeh, say so alan getting good numbers for this the last few weeks, 30 at least

TheRock

yeh was up last week,
Out after 20 minutes. Called Budas allin with my 15 outer, but his Aces held up.

nicnicnic

TheRock wrote:

yeh was up last week,
Out after 20 minutes. Called Budas allin with my 15 outer, but his Aces held up.

oh yeh i remember shocking call:p

Backstreet Moyes

Thanks Nic sorry about the flush draw call tonight just making sure you dont want too kill me before the next time i see you i cant help making the spite calls against you and getting lucky.

Bandana boy

im Puzzeled
You describe a villain who the bottom of his range will dominate you and has a much higher than 5% chance of calling you here i would say 50% from your description
you push he calls and you dont think you made a mistake
Trying to push inexpierenced players of hands is -Ev Doing big value betting against these individuals is +ev

im shocked you still think this was a good play

bops

nicnicnic wrote:

I'm sure with 6 months more experience I don't even consider this donkey play

...slightly edited

(gettin' stubborn in you old age nicky - besta luck this wk end and cya in cork )