IRL: 3X04 - "Every Man For Himself" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Basq

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF" -

Episode Title: "Every Man For Himself"
Airdate: November 21st 2006

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

The Others prevent Sawyer and Kate from escaping, leaving Sawyer perplexed by the extent of the measures taken to keep them imprisoned.

Jack is asked to use his medical training to save the life of one of the Others.

At the beach, Desmond's strange behavior attracts attention. He begins to construct a mysterious device.

Next New Episode: 3X05 - "

The Cost of Living

" - November 28th 2006

Patricide

8

I must say what an intresting episode, liked the way they useda mind **** to keep sawyer at bay, classic.

Still though call me slow here but i didnt fully get it when sawer looked out into the ocean and saw an island, i mean surely there isnt another island out there so is it just me or is that the same island that there already on and that there is no way off, this part has confusted me to the highest degree.

Also whats up with desmonds freaky powers and whats the story with eko, you think someone would be interested to see how he got mangled.

Cooee

6

I guess the only way there is an island there that they haven't seen is if the island is/was in some way cloaked!
Or else it's the best damn large scale hologram projection ever!
Or they are in some sort of cinema and that is a very large blue screen projection or..........................................................

Overall I found the episode actually quite slow - little reveals here and there but slow..........

Surprised to see someone die

The spinal cord x-ray etc is intriguing...was Jack specifically selected to be on the plane to allow him complete the surgery.....................

Juliet is a fertility doctor......interesting

Ben is damn good though - he can do a fantastic malevolent look....

GBX

9

Well they had the boat .. so it could well be a second island...
I enjoyed tonights episode. Again .. more Q's than Answers ... but nothing wrong with that. keeps ya hooked

traffic97

8

Great episode. Some key things that made me go "what the $%#@!"

-2 ISLANDS?! -What do you think of that?? I am amazed. I never expected it.

-SAWYERS FAKE PACEMAKER- I was so angry when they told Sawyer they put in a pacemaker. I love his a$s-kicking ways of handling things. So happy it was a con. (By the way, they relay caught sawyer off guard there)

-The TUMOR- Who does it belong to??? Do you think that was realy the reason the Others "operated" on Sawyer? Maybe Sawyer has the tumor. Or is jack there to help Save one of the Others?

-NO MEDICAL EQUIPMENT- How do the others live their on the Island with no medical equipment?

darrenh

7

i think it is quite clear that the losties are not meant to be on the island because the others wanted them there. they are there by accident because desmond didnt press the button but maybe fate brought them there. remember ep1 season 3 when they are all surprised and ben sends goodwin and ethan to look for survivors.

traffic97

8

Cooee wrote:

I guess the only way there is an island there that they haven't seen is if the island is/was in some way cloaked!
Or else it's the best damn large scale hologram projection ever!
Or they are in some sort of cinema and that is a very large blue screen projection or..........................................................

Hahaha, i agree, there is something funny about the 2 Islands. In the first episode of Season 3 i think, they showed the Others Village for the first time, which we saw was on the same islands as the Desmond and crew. So would this be a Headquater for the Dharma Project?

micro-ice

i just seen the episode and here are my thoughts

there is a second island
kate jack and sawyer are on the second island where the others live
remember the others camp where mike met with walt was a set up (fake hatch),
also ben was very worried by the fact that the survivors using desmonds boat would discover them
this would seem to support the 2nd island theory
and if as this episode suggests it is a smaller island then this would also explain why the survivors dont know it exists (ie only visible from far side of island)

but hey as i said this is only my opinion after watching the episode

Patricide

8

I dunno im just confused, i first thought it was the same island they themselves are on, so if you get me if they traveled to the "second island" they would be back on the opisite shore of the island they were already on so therefore itd be an infinite loop of sorts, it would also make sense of when whats his name(ben i think) said that not even god could find this island and it would make things rather difficult for leaving.

Lost has never confused me so much!!

traffic97

8

micro-ice wrote:

i just seen the episode and here are my thoughts

there is a second island
kate jack and sawyer are on the second island where the others live
remember the others camp where mike met with walt was a set up (fake hatch),
also ben was very worried by the fact that the survivors using desmonds boat would discover them
this would seem to support the 2nd island theory
and if as this episode suggests it is a smaller island then this would also explain why the survivors dont know it exists (ie only visible from far side of island)

but hey as i said this is only my opinion after watching the episode

Im not sure about your point, "kate jack and sawyer are on the second island where the others live". The second island, "Alcatraz" as Ben called it when talking to Sawyer, is where kate jack and sawyer are on now, but it is not the home of the Others. As we saw in the first episode of season 3, when we first see the others home, the camra zooms out and shows that both the others and the survivers (or Losties) are on the same island, the original "bigger" island.

traffic97

8

Another point that supports the idea of 2 islands is this.

When Ben(the head of the others) comes into the room where jack is held, he tells the woman (Juliet) talking to jack that the "sub" had arrived, and that there was a problem.
The "SUB" being a SUBMARINE, and it had returned from the original(bigger) island with the girl that was shot by sun.

This shows that the others went to the main island in a sub to try and take the sail boat, but the girl was shot, and then returned to the new, the one jack is on now.

They travel from island to island by boat or sub.

What do you think?

GBX

9

Yeah .. that makes sense traffic. Dont forget when Jack opened the hatch that he was told not to, all the water rushed in. which would give an idea that there beneath water.

squire1

Ok, don't get me wrong, I am a lost fan but something has being bothering me for a while now and maybe I missed something but can anyone explain why a group of people who have been on an island for three months (?) didn't bother to walk around or explore the coastline of the island in all that time?

Surely it would be one of the first things that any group of people would do if they found themselves in that situation. How did they know it was an island unless they walked around it. For all they knew up to this point there could have being a large city a couple of miles away and they didn't bother to look!

Yes, I know, maybe "Alcatraz x 2" is cloaked or some such rubbish but, the four toed statue, the others coastline camp, the others jetty, the others inland camp? How come nobody has explored the island? Are the losties being controlled to the extent that they have lost all free will and the ability to think rationally? Please, if there is a good reason for this that I missed, let me know becuase it's really bugging me now.:mad:

Dustbowl

Decent episode, the end was great. However the flashback with Sawyers Heart of Gold crap at the end really bothered me, its just more pandering to the female audience. He is a repeted felon but he is such as nice guy deep down vibe is nonsense.

dancinqueen

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Why was Ben so quick to react when the plane crashed? Why did they feel that they needed to infiltrate the group of survivors and why do they go to such lengths to disguise themselves if they were not expecting other people to be on the island. And why were they set up to do experiments on other people and have a clear list of people they wanted to kidnap. They also know everyones real name and have information about them.

abelard

Here's something I only noticed watching it for the second time when it was on RTÉ.

When Sawyer explains his electrocution plan to Kate, she tells him she's impressed, to which he says "Well wipe the starts outta your eyes, sweetheart".

Now if you go back to episode 3, and specifically to Locke's dream sequence in the airport, when he sees Sawyer and Kate in the queue, Sawyer says the exact same line, in the exact same tone (I assume they sampled it from this episode)

As to what, if anything, this could mean, I'm not sure. Did Locke have a little bit of a premonition like Desmond has been having? Maybe the events could have been concurrent and he was remotely hearing it? It was just a bit strange anyway.

Miguel_Sanchez

traffic97 wrote:

-2 ISLANDS?! -What do you think of that?? I am amazed. I never expected it.

Strange thing was - I wasn't that surprised at all. I guess I always kind of expected that they'd move them off the island.

-The TUMOR- Who does it belong to??? Do you think that was realy the reason the Others "operated" on Sawyer? Maybe Sawyer has the tumor. Or is jack there to help Save one of the Others?

Nope. The tumour has nothing to do with Sawyer I wouldn't say. In fact as soon as Jack mentioned about it there was only one person's name that I figured it had to belong to - Benjamin.

-NO MEDICAL EQUIPMENT- How do the others live their on the Island with no medical equipment?

They do have medical equipment. Did you not see the operating theatre? X-Rays? Surely you'd class those as medical equipment. Ok - their defibrilator was broken.

Jello

8

Excellent episode, probably the best so far IMO. It seems that tumor could belong to Ben, and it might be what he wants Jack to do, (ie removing it) ''when the time comes'' and he will be brought home.

Some funny parts to the episode too, with Kate and Sawyer in the cage.

But yeah, two islands doesn't suprise me. I'm suprised they didn't spot it before, with climbing up the mountain to try get a radio signal, sailing out in the raft, all Danielle and Locke's explorations and Desmond trying to escape...

kevmy

7

Jello wrote:

But yeah, two islands doesn't suprise me. I'm suprised they didn't spot it before, with climbing up the mountain to try get a radio signal, sailing out in the raft, all Danielle and Locke's explorations and Desmond trying to escape...

A good episode overall I gave it an 8.
As for not having spotted the island (and there is another island) before well the raft has set out from the beach (presumably on the opposite side of the big island) and seemed to move directly away from it. Therefore they wouldn't have came across the small island.
Also compasses don't work so Desmond could have just gone around in a tiny loop when he left on the boat. Remember he doesn't know how he got there.
Danielle should really have found it by now but I suppose she has been living down in a self made hatch for years.
If we presume the Others live on the big island (I'm not sure about this, there was some argument about the angle we saw the plane coming from in 3X1) then obviously Saiid didn't climb the biggest mountain to get the radio signal. The Others live in the crater of the biggest mountain and this may have obstructed his view.
However it has always annoyed me that they haven't mapped the island. I know it's supposed to be pretty big but still... Saiid set out to do it once and found Danielle then everyone forgot about the idea.:(

Juliettes a fertility doctor supports the genetic research/selected breeding idea.
Desmond seeing into the future is now proven. He did the lightning rod as a test and now he realises what he can do.
Jack was brought to the smaller island ie. kidnapped to do the operation. He was not brought to the big island to do it. This was an accident. The Losties have given the Others to much trouble to be brought there deliberetaly.
It's possible that Ben has the tumour but it could equally be another member of the Others. There seems to be a few males aged ~40 yrs there.
Also maybe Ethan was the main doctor as we was him in Claires flashback doing medical proceedures and Juliette is only there for the fertility side.

Vegeta

6

2 islands thing was so stupid

reeks of a show trying to gain some distance

kinda reminds me of the matrix 2 and 3, pure ****

the 2 original groups of losties were on complete opposite sides of the island, surely over the course of 2 series someone would have seen it.

It is pure nonsense to say otherwise.

Killaqueen!!!

7

Great episode! Love the ones focusing on Sawyer. Good flashbacks...didn't learn much but it was cool! I was nearly crying when that Danny one was beating him up. I really don't think the Others are the 'good guys' - thats what everyone thinks now, but it would be too obvious. I really hate Danny and I'm glad yer one Coleen died. (Go on my Sun!!!)

Anyway, the whole two island thing....just not getting it. Excuses can be made but the second island should have been found by now, but with Sayid up in the mountains, Desmond on a proper sailboat, some of the Losties on the raft, one group of Losties on one side of the island, one on the other.....really now, it's stupid that they haven't found it yet. It's also annoying that the Losties haven't properly explored the island but I suppose with the polar bears, and the monster and the Others supposedly lurking about, I would stick to the beach too!

Not quite getting which island is for what. The island which the plane crashed on is where the Other lived (or used to. maybe they destroyed their village and moved to the second island?) and is also where the Dharma stations are. Which leads me to another question: did the Others know about Kelvin? And where did he get the boat? The Others were pretty scared about the fact that they had a boat but then one of them said "so it'll keep them busy going in circles" - I thought they meant that they'll never escape the island because they can't get off it, but they meant that they would discover the other island. So the submarine thing would make sense. That's how the Others scout team got past Jin and Sayid. Makes a little bit more sense....

That's taking it that there are two islands....:P Perhaps it is one big peninsula. Or an illusion..

Vegeta

6

yeah they'd really want to explain the second island very well as it may just be the straw that breaks this camels back

There has been too many things left unexplained from season to season

What the hell is the black smoke stuff in the Jungle??? Haven't seen that in ages. How did the light air craft with the drugs crash land on the island?

Like we are 3 series in at this stage and still no clue whats going on. So far its been very shallow. People crash on island, weird things happen on island, meet other group of people on island = conflict. Big magnet go boom.

Fair enough they can keep all these answers back but it is starting to turn into a pretty poor TV show.

Now i have no clue how the writers of the show are going to end all the plot lines and it could end up being a fanatstic series but at the moment I am finding it very frustrating and am quickly losing interest

I really like the characters so I hope they start connecting a few things together over the coming weeks.

kevmy

7

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Not quite getting which island is for what. The island which the plane crashed on is where the Other lived (or used to. maybe they destroyed their village and moved to the second island?) and is also where the Dharma stations are.

The big island is where the Others lived IMO, it is where the plane crashed and where the Losties live. The Others live in the big crater in the big island. IMO the village is still there. We saw loads of people in 3X01 in the village that we haven't seen on the small 'Alcatraz' island. They are still living up there and only a small group, led by Benry, went to explore the threat of the Losties.
Alcatraz seems to be used for housing the animals. Polar bears, sharks, maybe more. There is stations there to look after the experiments on the animals and thats about it IMO.

tired of life?

7

i enjoyed this episode but i kinda sussed the 2nd island thing wen dey wer talkin bout d boat. i liked d sawyer/kate bits i almost cried wen he killed d bunny im not likin ben........next episode looks good ... dats all im gonna say

Killaqueen!!!

7

kevmy wrote:

The big island is where the Others lived IMO, it is where the plane crashed and where the Losties live. The Others live in the big crater in the big island. IMO the village is still there. We saw loads of people in 3X01 in the village that we haven't seen on the small 'Alcatraz' island. They are still living up there and only a small group, led by Benry, went to explore the threat of the Losties.
Alcatraz seems to be used for housing the animals. Polar bears, sharks, maybe more. There is stations there to look after the experiments on the animals and thats about it IMO.

Yeah...

So how the hell did they get the polar bears over to the second island???

Hopefully they'll confirm about the submarine/possible underground hatch linking the two islands in the next episode, and make stuff a bit clearer.

bluto63

abelard wrote:

Here's something I only noticed watching it for the second time when it was on RTÉ.

When Sawyer explains his electrocution plan to Kate, she tells him she's impressed, to which he says "Well wipe the starts outta your eyes, sweetheart".

Now if you go back to episode 3, and specifically to Locke's dream sequence in the airport, when he sees Sawyer and Kate in the queue, Sawyer says the exact same line, in the exact same tone (I assume they sampled it from this episode)

As to what, if anything, this could mean, I'm not sure. Did Locke have a little bit of a premonition like Desmond has been having? Maybe the events could have been concurrent and he was remotely hearing it? It was just a bit strange anyway.

This would give a little support to a theory I came up with. A small one.

I think I read that the Lost Experience revealed that the numbers were a sequence for predicting when humanity was going to end(if I'm wrong, someone correct me on this please) Now, with the explosion of the hatch I feel that Locke and Desmond have somehow contracted the ability to predict the future.

Just a little something I came up with

Lothaar

I thought that while this episode had lots of potentially intresting action, it really confirmed to me that Lost is a total bag of sh1t. It was fun trying to unravel the little mysteries for the last two series but now there's just more and more, without anything from the past making sense. It all seems to be heading towards a very unsatisfying ending, which won't happen for another four years. I certainly will not be watching that long.

The second island thing annoyed the hell out of me. If there's a second island it should have been discovered by now. This is lazy screenwriting, and stinks of an attempt to give them more scope to create many soap-operatic threads of storylines. Another island means twice the storylines, right? Bullsh1t.

Not happy at all. I may give it about two more episodes before I give up on the show completely.

kevmy

7

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

So how the hell did they get the polar bears over to the second island???

Apparently they can swim.

Maybe they were brought over to the big island by renegade scientists bent on controlling the world through inter-island polar bear transfers. MWAHAHAHAHA.

Mellor

7

Lothaar wrote:

The second island thing annoyed the hell out of me. If there's a second island it should have been discovered by now.

Alot of people have said this. But I disagree. I don't think you reliese how big the original island is.
The plane was flying past the island not over it when it crashed. We can see this from the first ep of this series. So say it was flying over the edge of the island, look at the way ethan and goodwin ran off to the beeches.
Northeast and northwest. (or south)
Assuming that the losties were on the north west and the rear of plane on the north east. They were 2 days walking apart. Thats far, think about it. Maybe 30 miles, Maybe less, im guessing. Thats a hugh distance. if the second island is due south of the original beach, They would need to right to the otherside to get to it. i get the impression the second island is very small compared to the first.

Who from the camp has walked that far away from the beech. Only sayid, it would of taken him days to find the other island but he found it. Had he not met Ben.

Prehaps, I just thought of this so its probably full of holes. But in the maldives (not a million miles from where this fictional lost island is) Islands close together can become one island at low tides.
What if the two islands can be walked between at neap (rare very low) tides.

Killaqueen!!!

7

Lothaar wrote:

I certainly will not be watching that long.

Of course you won't

Lothaar

You don’t have to reach the very southern tip of the island to see this new island, as its so close. Anyway, gimme a break; do you actually buy the explanation you gave? It’s easy to come up with a tenuous explanation for even the most ridiculous plotlines. That’s the thing about Lost – it was fun for a while, hypothesising about what could possibly explain all the weird stuff that’s happening. It is now becoming apparent that it’s simply a neverending stream of weird stuff that defies explanation. I am worried that the ultimate conclusion will be something terribly unsatisfying, something along the lines of “Life doesn’t always have an explanation”.

Killaqueen!!!

7

Lothaar wrote:

You don’t have to reach the very southern tip of the island to see this new island, as its so close. Anyway, gimme a break; do you actually buy the explanation you gave? It’s easy to come up with a tenuous explanation for even the most ridiculous plotlines. That’s the thing about Lost – it was fun for a while, hypothesising about what could possibly explain all the weird stuff that’s happening. It is now becoming apparent that it’s simply a neverending stream of weird stuff that defies explanation. I am worried that the ultimate conclusion will be something terribly unsatisfying, something along the lines of “Life doesn’t always have an explanation”.

who gives a **** it's tv relax and enjoy it cos it seems like you used to. What's changed? The fact that it's a mystery programme? Because that's what it's meant to be. It's not going to ask questions and then answer them cleary the next episode they reveal a little more everytime. Yes, they also open up new questions while doing that but that's the point. You're supposed to figure things out as you go along.

Anyway, I don't need to convert you. If you don't want to watch it, fine (though I doubt that you won't watch it ever again. chances are you will if not the season finale) But I'm sick of people slagging Lost!

Lothaar

I'm afraid I can't relax and enjoy it. I don't watch programmes just because I used to like them. What's changed, as I explained, is that, in a moment of glorious epiphany, I realised that Lost is a bag of sh1t!

I used to think it was clever and leading towards a supersmart conclusion. The 'mystery' is now gratuitous. Each episode is filled with previously undisclosed information that throws up lots of questions. This formula was great for a while - 'Ooh, I wonder why that happened' - but now it's just tiresome.

You don't have to convert me and you don't need to take such offence to my opinion. I'm just laying it on the line. If you're devoted to Lost, more power to you. I just can't take much more of the BS.

Sure - wasn't it originally supposed to be 3 or 4 series, and they changed it to run for 7 series? Knock-on effect: lots of BS to fill out an already padded story.

kevmy

7

Lothaar wrote:

Sure - wasn't it originally supposed to be 3 or 4 series, and they changed it to run for 7 series? Knock-on effect: lots of BS to fill out an already padded story.

It was never meant to be for any certain lenght of time. No shows are. They do a pilot and if it's liked it's kept on. About three shows ever, in the history of television, stopped before they got stale: Fr Ted, The Office and Fawlty Towers.
So thata bullsh1t what you just said. You just presumed Lost was going to be for only 3-4 seasons

Lothaar

Really? I heard that somewhere, didn't just presume. Meh... Doesn't change anything.

slave1

8

well, back watching this on SkyHD, mmmm great episode, best of this yea so far IMHO.
Re the two islands, who's to day there is only 1 island and that Ben was watching the island from one side to the other, kinda a small world and the island covers the small world, if y'all catch my drift

as_seen_on

Cooee wrote:

Juliet is a fertility doctor......interesting

What do you mean by that?