Great article on conditioning training for fighters.

Dragan

I had planned to write something like this myself and post it here, this has neatly saved me the time and effort. Pretty much everything that i would have said.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1343138

gymrabbit

Nice article. Interesting analogy about over conditioning.

dlofnep

Doesn't look right to me.

Dragan

dlofnep wrote:

Doesn't look right to me.

What doesn't look right?

dlofnep

The idea that running has no benefit.

Dragan

dlofnep wrote:

The idea that running has no benefit.

Well it makes nothing but sense, the occassional sub 30 min 5 mile run during the week would help but the author is spot on.

Whats the point in doing endless mid level running, when what you are training for does not contain any endless midlevel activity periods? Quick recovery is the key, and the key to that is explosive activity coupled with short recovery periods.

It's like back when rugby teams would do endless laps of the pitch, and come game day would be shattered 20 mins into the game.

Train in a way that simulates your activty patterns.

dlofnep

Sure you do high intensity training but also include running; I think running should benefit you overall. The idea that it doesn't benefit at all sounds all wrong to me.

Millionaire

What Dragan is explain from the article, is the type of interval and spring running Rossboxing teaches also. run to a pattern like you fight.

dlofnep

I dunno, name one top athlete who doesn't run apart of their training. All boxers, all top mma competitors. Are you saying they are not getting any benefit from their running, aside from the obvious keeping their weight at bay..?

I call BS. I don't buy a word of it.

Dragan

dlofnep wrote:

I dunno, name one top athlete who doesn't run apart of their training. All boxers, all top mma competitors. Are you saying they are not getting any benefit from their running, aside from the obvious keeping their weight at bay..?

I call BS. I don't buy a word of it.

Dlofnep,

without meaning to sound harsh it seems like you are hinging more on one aspect of the article that you disagree with, than looking at all the parts that might help you with your own training?

If you feel that running benefits you, then run for days mate. The simple fact is, that outside of the shorter runs that i have mentioned, running for hours will do very little to improve a fighters in fight conditioning.

I don't know that many fighters who run for hours, most of the guys i know, most of the fighter protocols that i have read all show 5 mile runs, in 30 mins or so, maybe 2 or 3 times a week.

Now then, from a physiological point of view, an aerobic activity will do very little to help in an anaerobic capacity, such as fighting.

gymrabbit

A couple of things I'd add.

Long distance, low intensity, same state running can be good for fat burning (may not be as effective as the HIIT method however). It also has some holistic value I think.

I think there is also a difference between off-season and on-season. Pre-season training may involve lots of lap running but I don't think any pro fighter is going to do a 10 mile jog in the same week of a fight. One guy in the comments section mentions a guy who off-season is 70-30 aerobic:anerobic but 8 weeks before fight is 90:10 anerobic:aerobic.

I don't think any exercise that leaves you panting, struggling to finish can be called useless.

Of course, I also maintain that each athlete is different and what "works" for someone may not work for someone else. Also, as I think Dragan mentioned before, you can't rely on antedotal glimpses of fighter training to justify their ability. For example, one might watch Fedor doing sledge hammer training and say "Fedor does it and he's a champion so I must do it". Don't forget, Fedor has the million other different aspects of Strenght and Conditioning going down too.

I think that article is spot on and for the average joe mma bloggs I reckon a 5 miler once a week wouldn't go a stray.

ShaneT

Great article. Sure, running is a great method of weight control (particularly if you're just looking to drop a couple of kg approaching a fight) but it has absolutely no connection to the conditioning that's required for the randomly paced bursts of energy that one encounters in a fight/match.

One second you're pulling, the next you're pushing, sometimes your own body weight, sometimes your opponent's weight, sometimes a combinatoin of both, the next you're falling, the next you're jumping, the next you're throwing kicks, the next you're dodging punches, taking hits and dishing out others, sometimes you're winded, others you have loads of oxygen to work with, at times a sequence of activity is performed from a disposition of strength, other times from a weak disposition - THEN - back through the whole lot in no particular order, for unknown periods of time and intensity. All the while your heart rate, muscular tension, skeletal positioning and breathing patterns have no idea where they need to be "set" for what's coming next.

"Iron man" type activities are essentially the only way to prepare in terms of conditioning (essentially, pushing to a limit that couldn't realistically be reached in a match) and strong man type activities are the only real way to improve the strength "needed" to deal with "unbalanced" weight. Even working with an unlimited number of Brock Lesnar types wouldn't help since their movements won't mirror those that fit neatly into your own weight class.

Still, if you can find someone really BIG AND REALLY FAST then do it. And do it often...

john kavanagh

the fewer fighters that follow this the better for SBG

on a note i factor in 4 x 45min aerobic sessions into Arni's training per week. of course those sessions are 'rolling' so they're sport specific

Roper

In my training schedule for Sunday I've had 2 long runs, and those have only been 5k and were done when I had no option. Other then that, my approach has been fairly consistent with that article, bar not having a sled;) It's been radically different to the roadwork I used to do for TKD and Kickboxing but I feel my cardio is far better than its ever been. I guess I'll find out soon:)

gymrabbit

john kavanagh wrote:

the fewer fighters that follow this the better for SBG

on a note i factor in 4 x 45min aerobic sessions into Arni's training per week. of course those sessions are 'rolling' so they're sport specific

would these be specifically light intensity rolling? I just thought grappling was associated with anerobic and running around associated with aerobic. Would really intense grappling be anerobic but fairly loose warm up style rolling be aerobic?

I'm trying to look at this in terms of black and white but may be a bit off the mark.

john kavanagh

for someone with arni's skill level and conditioning 7-9 5min rolls with 45sec rest is well within his aerobic limit

a beginner grappler who relies on massive bursts of energy to escape positions and improve their position will probably go into their anaerobic zone, but arni was coached better than that

gymrabbit

john kavanagh wrote:

for someone with arni's skill level and conditioning 7-9 5min rolls with 45sec rest is well within his aerobic limit

a beginner grappler who relies on massive bursts of energy to escape positions and improve their position will probably go into their anaerobic zone, but arni was coached better than that

thanks for that clarification.

Colm_OReilly

I like running, but that's just for the fun of it rather than any sport specific benefit.

High Intensity Cardio drills are what you need for a match. When I was training for ROT3 I did 4x5min high intensity rounds. After the match, I was breathing normally by the time Dave stood me up.

I've never done a weight's dependent conditioning workout, it's all been bodyweight (wrestler shuffles, fiannas, high jumps, explosive pushups). I'd like to try one out sometime. I imagine crossfit have quite a few.

Colm

columok

Riley wrote:

I'd like to try one out sometime. I imagine crossfit have quite a few.

My trainer introduced me to high intensity weights (Cartwheel something?)- using a fairly light barbell. I use a 20 kg bar. Four sets of 10 reps of each movement. I do plyometrics as my rest which is probably 90 seconds.

Randy demonstrates it in the following link. http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3224902600571518938&q=couture

It's been death particularily at the 4th set but the benefits have been noticeable. I also run 5km once or twice a week but thats generally for my own benefits. I'm only training combat sports (thai) wednesdays so I'm working towards general (cross)fitness not mma fitness but i guess my training is working out that way regardless.

FiannaGym.com

Like most of the guys above have said, running is a method of weight control and I think it does have a benifit in Boxing (because of the lenght of time fighting over all e.g 9-10 rounds) and in Thai (because it develops strong ligaments and solid dense muscle tissue). By and large for MMA I think the time invested could be wiser spent elsewhere.

When I'm fit I've never met anyone who could out cardio me on the mat (virtually anyone can out skill me!) and I don't do long runs just the type of stuff outlined above and, of course, fight drills!

Colm_OReilly wrote:

I've never done a weight's dependent conditioning workout, it's all been bodyweight (wrestler shuffles, fiannas, high jumps, explosive pushups). I'd like to try one out sometime. I imagine crossfit have quite a few.

Go Fianna's!

Peace

Dragan

Colm_OReilly wrote:

I've never done a weight's dependent conditioning workout, it's all been bodyweight (wrestler shuffles, fiannas, high jumps, explosive pushups). I'd like to try one out sometime. I imagine crossfit have quite a few.

Colm

Hey Colm,

If you want you can give this a go. It won't make you pretty, but it will make you hurt. It's kind of a combo resistance/bodyweight complex. Rep Ranges are worked out on the assumption that a steady weight will be used the whole way though and represent what you should be able to complete, from one exercise into the next. IMO ( and it should be noted, this is purely my opinion ) if you are unable to get the target reps per exercise then you have a weakness that needs to be worked on.

You can do this as many times as you feel happy doing it, I would think that matching the numer of rounds for an upcoming fight would be a good idea, taking the equivilent rest period in between as you would be alloted in that fight.

Hang/Power Cleans ( 8 reps )
Into
Standing Push Press ( 6 reps ) ( Jerk the last few sets if you need to )
Into
Back Squat ( 12 reps ) ( get below parallel there gents )
Into
Bent Over Row ( 8 reps ) ( rack the bar should you need to in order to move between back squats and rows )
Into
Push Ups ( 20 )
Into
Hindu Squats ( 20 )

Millionaire

I suprising the Muay Thai world, as I see it in Thailand, still do the long slow runs.

There is plenty of top foreign fighters coming here, so you'd think the latest modern fitness technology would travel here too.

Where I am base Pattaya, there is tons of oxing camps all over the place, and you see fighters all over the place out doing the long slow running.

Some run through the town which is awash with exhaust fumes air pollution. must be not too good for the lungs breathing in fumes of 100,000 motorbikes!!

FiannaGym.com

Millionaire wrote:

I suprising the Muay Thai world, as I see it in Thailand, still do the long slow runs.

There is plenty of top foreign fighters coming here, so you'd think the latest modern fitness technology would travel here too.

Where I am base Pattaya, there is tons of oxing camps all over the place, and you see fighters all over the place out doing the long slow running.

Some run through the town which is awash with exhaust fumes air pollution. must be not too good for the lungs breathing in fumes of 100,000 motorbikes!!

I think for thai boxing these long slow runs develop strong dense muscle tissue which is obvioulsy very useful for thai.

Peace

Millionaire

FiannaGym.com wrote:

I think for thai boxing these long slow runs develop strong dense muscle tissue which is obvioulsy very useful for thai.

Peace

I was more thinking of wind and endurance for the frantic 5 rounds in the ring.

I like the long slow run, and was banging out 5km in 30 mins, before I was out sick for that month. and I enjoyed it alot.

However after reading www.rossboxing.com I am more convinced by his idea of interval training and sprints etc... as he says he gives much better wind etc for fight training. Or Sport Specific seems to be the proper word?

I would rather stay in my comfort zone of the longer slow run, as its easier!
But to improve I am going to have to push, and adopt the interval running idea. its going to be tough, but there ya go...who said improvement was going to be easy.

As for the dense leg muscle, I think personally for me, kicking the thai pads, and really increased muscle size in my leg. I tend to double kick full power in order to build more stamina in my legs all the time on the pads. every thai round kick is double for me. this with Hindu squats is starting to give me tree trunk legs!

Colm_OReilly

Dragan,

What do you mean it won't make me pretty? I work out to look good naked first and foremost, everything else is secondary!

Fianna,
When you're "unfit" you can out cardio anyone on the mat!