England A Vs South Africa

Diamondmaker

Is that really the senior squad? They look a shambles, cant string a few passes together, Corry leading by poor example with a cynical and totall unnecesary 3 point give away on the clothes line, Lewsey kicking from hand like me ma.

England REALLY really are in a bad way, win lose or draw this game nothing positive will come.
They wont know whos best where etc. They will be 6N whipping boys and perhaps Italy may fancy them

rollie

Diamondmaker wrote:

and perhaps Italy may fancy them

That is something that I would love to see.....c'mon the Italians

suppafly

so and england win and we can give a big hand to the ref for that. I mean wtf like. The ref was doing everything in his power to get an England. i wonder did he a bet on for england or something? He was turning a blind eye to so many things and just making up things. England played really badly the whole game with the exception of the second try. They had a bit of purpose going on there. Otherwise another entirely dismal preformance again. This win is just going to disguise how bad they actually played.

RuggieBear

trust me...walsh is no fan of england

BOHSBOHS

if south africa had brought their 1st team on the tour they would easily have beaten us and england by comfortable scores

obrien_pa

I'm no fan of England or English rugby, but I had to admire that team's sheer bloody-mindedness to just keep on coming, going through phase after phase to create whatever they could when they were 2 scores down with 15 minutes to go.

They are a mess though... No flair or skill being shown by the backs; confused defence throughout; no discipline (as shown by Corry's clothesline on the bok out-half early in the game). They really are a very poor side at the moment - I'm not sure if it can all be blamed on Andy Robinson either.

RuggieBear

BOHSBOHS wrote:

if south africa had brought their 1st team on the tour they would easily have beaten us and england by comfortable scores

I don't agree. We are better than the SA first team imo. England are a shambles at the moment.

obrien_pa

RuggieBear wrote:

I don't agree. We are better than the SA first team imo. England are a shambles at the moment.

Ireland can beat any team in the world on their current form - and I definitely think they could have beaten a stronger SA side. The only addition to the springbok team which could have majorly affected the outcome of last week's game would have been the inclusion of Victor Matfield at lock. He would have been more aggressive and stolen far more lineout ball.

RuggieBear

obrien_pa wrote:

Ireland can beat any team in the world on their current form - and I definitely think they could have beaten a stronger SA side. The only addition to the springbok team which could have majorly affected the outcome of last week's game would have been the inclusion of Victor Matfield at lock. He would have been more aggressive and stolen far more lineout ball.

well tbh, Victor Maitfield is a phenomenal player. Any team would miss him

zAbbo

And Schalk Burger as well, but I'd say they were more or less full strength today without them 2. Steyn has played himself into the XV ahead of Percy, who was poor during the tri-nations.

Both teams have issues with trying to develop a squad before the WC.

With a username like BOHSBOHS, you can't expect any huge insight, and I'd argue that we'd be a match for any team right now.

Sangre

True, SA were pretty dominated as a whole during the Tri-Nations, except *that* game at home.

SA no doubt miss Burger, a master class of a player, however, his inclusion would only limit damage, not stop it.

BOHSBOHS

erm so SA wernt missing venter, botha, matfield, burger, du randt ,van niekerk, du preez,wanneberg or fourie?:rolleyes:

im sorry zabbo u say ive a lack of insight? and then say were a match for any team right now??? haha , a full strength SA on this tour ?? lmao

while we do have our best ever chance of winning a WC lets not go overboard ,when we beat any of the top4 teams at full power ill share your confidence , other teams use these internationals to blood new players
and are building teams towards the WC
(SA debuted fortuin ,steyn and jaco pretorius vs ireland for example )
while steady eddie puts out the same 15 pretty much :mad:
at least this weekend boss and young are getting a run out

Orizio

BOHSBOHS wrote:

if south africa had brought their 1st team on the tour they would easily have beaten us and england by comfortable scores

What makes you think that?England yes but we are far strogner then the English.

You've got to love Sky Sports.It all smiles and hugs despite the fact that England almost didn't manage to beat a near second string South Africa at Twickenham.Both countries are going nowhere quickly.

Amazotheamazing

obrien_pa wrote:

Ireland can beat any team in the world on their current form - and I definitely think they could have beaten a stronger SA side. The only addition to the springbok team which could have majorly affected the outcome of last week's game would have been the inclusion of Victor Matfield at lock. He would have been more aggressive and stolen far more lineout ball.

What current form? We beat Eng in Twickenham due to a lenght of the field last minute try, great stuff but hardly a sign we'd currently beat England, we lost 2 tests to a sub-strenght NZ and Aus beat us with relative ease in Aus last summer. We were embarassed by France until they fell asleep.

Our only current form is we beat a massively understrenght SA, as Bohs points out, SA have virtually a full pack resting at home.

We might beat Aus tomorrow, but this Aus team drew with Wales and were pushed by Italy, hardly a sign of a team in full flight.

RuggieBear

Amazotheamazing wrote:

What current form? We beat Eng in Twickenham due to a lenght of the field last minute try, great stuff but hardly a sign we'd currently beat England, we lost 2 tests to a sub-strenght NZ and Aus beat us with relative ease in Aus last summer. We were embarassed by France until they fell asleep.

Our only current form is we beat a massively understrenght SA, as Bohs points out, SA have virtually a full pack resting at home.

We might beat Aus tomorrow, but this Aus team drew with Wales and were pushed by Italy, hardly a sign of a team in full flight.

Damn. I hate your spin of things....;)

Amazotheamazing

Ok, so maybe we're basing our arrogance on HEC then?

Hmm, away Leinster lost to Edinburgh and Ulster lost to Llanelli (both solid teams but not worldbeaters), Munster won in Leicester due to huge kick from O'Gara, so we know Irish teams can be beaten in the HEC.

So where is the arrogance coming from?

This current Irish team is very good as a unit, but when the RWC comes we'll face 2 teams that are probably best suited to beating us in the group stages. France haved milled us on a few occasions over the last 4 years, and Argentina are probably the finest spoiling team in the world at the minute. Will they do to us what Munster did to Leinster last April, choke our backs of ball and play the percentages?

Keep the perspective, lads.

Chucky the tree

England were like a shower of headless chickens today. Just running blindly straight ahead. Very dull. delighted they won though, this means Adny Robinson job is a bit safer. another win next week and he'll be there until at the 6 nations. Then every other nation is looking at a very handy 2 points, even the Italians maybe.

were no great shakes either. The SA team will be in much better shape for the WC having played their second string in these autumn internationals. EOS has made another blunder continuously picking full strenthen teams. No surpise there though. Should of sacked a long time ago.

France and New Zealand are in their own league, its just the mental problem both teams seem to have. Then its probaly SA and Austrailia. Its probaly us, wales, the argies wouldnt far behind at all. the rest are jokers.

If andy robinson is sacked, England will be back. Their lack of an outhalf will be our saving grace.

Amazotheamazing

I don't think England are as bad as everyone says they are.

by the RWC, Allen and Tait wil be much better centres, Flood and Lamb will be better outhalves, Lewsey should still be going strong, Voyce is a competant wing and there's guys like Varndell, Cohen knocking around too. Not amazing, but not useless either.

Their problems, imo, are at 9, Ellis, Perry, Richards are poor players. They are slow to make decisions and slow passers. If they can find a good scrumhalf they'll be a much better team. They have a few decent outhalves in Hodgeson and Goode, not amazing, but there's very few good outhalves (outside of NZ and Wales) around at the minute. What's making Hodgeson and Goode look worse than they are is the service they get from their scrumhalf.

obrien_pa

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Ok, so maybe we're basing our arrogance on HEC then?

Hmm, away Leinster lost to Edinburgh and Ulster lost to Llanelli (both solid teams but not worldbeaters), Munster won in Leicester due to huge kick from O'Gara, so we know Irish teams can be beaten in the HEC.

So where is the arrogance coming from?

This current Irish team is very good as a unit, but when the RWC comes we'll face 2 teams that are probably best suited to beating us in the group stages. France haved milled us on a few occasions over the last 4 years, and Argentina are probably the finest spoiling team in the world at the minute. Will they do to us what Munster did to Leinster last April, choke our backs of ball and play the percentages?

Keep the perspective, lads.

"Arrogance"?!? I think that's a bit strong. It's not arrogant to discuss the merits of your team and objectively propose that they're good enough to beat most other teams on their day..given their current excellent standards. That's confidence. Nothing more.

The Irish team showed today that while Australia may not be at their strongest - the team can close out a game and play with confidence against a recognised rugby super-power. That's not arrogance either - just confidence in their abilities and a mental attitude that says - why shouldn't we expect to win every game.

I'm keeping the perspective - it's just that the perspective is changing. It's no longer good enough to go out and give it a lash, or be comfortable being valiant losers. This team has the potential to do very well against all comers. Why not confidently support them in their efforts?!?