Submissions from front mount?

The Bored One

Hey, was just wondering what submissions you guys would consider possible/useful from from mount?
I know the obvious one is just throw a leg over and then fall into armbar.
And that there are plenty of collar chokes available, although I don't like relying on them having a collar heavy enough to choke em with.
Saw a funny incident where a friend of mine who favours them tried it on a huge new guy automatically, and then realized too late the guy only had a t-shirt on and got tossed around like a rag-doll.
So what would you use in that position?
Subs only, no GnP.

FiannaGym.com

I pretty much never armbar from mount. I find it a fairly poor place to be generally your giving the dude too much of your wieght. I find side control about a zillion times better, but hey I'm hardly a sub wizzard.

Anyway, far and away the side choke is my highest success rate sub from mount. You loose very little base, easy to set up, you give nothing away doing it etc.

Any body will show you how to do it, I use the "evil dead hand" that kav showed me years ago (no doubt the game has moved on but it's still what I use). I almost always sit out on it or lately I'm doing the "heart breaker" thing.

Other subs would be triangle from mount, black and white choke, Americana (bent armlock, paint brush).

All in all I generally avoid it when Im rolling - it's to "ju jitsuiy" for me. ha ha,

Peace

john kavanagh

rather than looking for new ones, i find its better to improve on the ones you already know.

The Bored One wrote:

I know the obvious one is just throw a leg over and then fall into armbar.

if possible you should not 'fall into armbar'. if your opponent escapes his arm he'll end up on the top position, and position is everything. try working on positioning your hips so that you can finish that from the S mount position without falling back. so even if you miss the arm, you still have the same position.

The Bored One wrote:

although I don't like relying on them having a collar heavy enough to choke em with.

you can 'collar choke' someone who's wearing a light t-shirt....you just have to know how

The Bored One wrote:

Saw a funny incident where a friend of mine who favours them tried it on a huge new guy automatically,

when working with a 'huge new guy' its better to rely on top position to 'wear them down'. most new guys will burn themselves out quickly trying to 'muscle out' of bottom position. when you feel they've tired themselves a bit then you can go to work on them

good luck with your training

john kavanagh

some very good advice there from Fianna

FiannaGym.com wrote:

Any body will show you how to do it, I use the "evil dead hand" that kav showed me years ago (no doubt the game has moved on but it's still what I use).

no, thats still how i set it up. if it aint broke...

FiannaGym.com wrote:

I almost always sit out on it or lately I'm doing the "heart breaker" thing.

lol its called the 'heart attack' but i like that name!

FiannaGym.com wrote:

All in all I generally avoid it when Im rolling - it's to "ju jitsuiy" for me. ha ha,

i'll change you yet!! haha

The Bored One

john kavanagh wrote:

rather than looking for new ones, i find its better to improve on the ones you already know.

True enough, I just like having a few options is all. I actually prefer working from side mount, but I'd prefer knowing whats available when I do end up in front mount.
Its stuff that will get covered in training, just was thinking about it and thought I'd ask.

if possible you should not 'fall into armbar'. if your opponent escapes his arm he'll end up on the top position, and position is everything. try working on positioning your hips so that you can finish that from the S mount position without falling back. so even if you miss the arm, you still have the same position.

Hmm, fall into it was probably wrong way of phrasing it, I get your point though.

you can 'collar choke' someone who's wearing a light t-shirt....you just have to know how

Heh this tshirt ripped like wet paper, so Im curious now

when working with a 'huge new guy' its better to rely on top position to 'wear them down'. most new guys will burn themselves out quickly trying to 'muscle out' of bottom position. when you feel they've tired themselves a bit then you can go to work on them

In this case I think the problem would have been my friends attitude. He always goes for the techniques before the positioning, so he tends to get more than a little burnt out himself scrabbling around

Colm_OReilly

rather than looking for new ones, i find its better to improve on the ones you already know.

John, shiny new techniques are ALWAYS the way to go!

Personally I think the armbar is one fo the most difficult submissions, particularly for a beginner. The amount of technical details and places where skill needs to be developed is really high. But people see them all the time in the UFC so they want to learn them.

The rat choke is pretty simple t-shirt choke from mount. You're a rat b*****d if you do it though, hence the name.

Colm

The Bored One

Colm_OReilly wrote:

John, shiny new techniques are ALWAYS the way to go!

Personally I think the armbar is one fo the most difficult submissions, particularly for a beginner. The amount of technical details and places where skill needs to be developed is really high. But people see them all the time in the UFC so they want to learn them.

The rat choke is pretty simple t-shirt choke from mount. You're a rat b*****d if you do it though, hence the name.

Colm

Can you describe it? I know a fair few chokes, but I keep hearing them called by different names.
Im interested, I've been feeling pretty rodential recently

kenpo_dave

Hey Seamus. You should come back down to training. We were doing armbars from mount recently. Shane would be more than happy to demonstrate any submissions on you that you might have a query about Oh and tell Will I want my DVD back :mad:

OSU,

Dave.

astfgl

Kimura, Heart Attack and Mounted Triangle are probably the most straightforward to do, but here's a nasty one i've been working on:

From mount, try to get your opponents arm flat on the ground with their hand pointing away (like they are showing you their biceps). Now bring your leg up and kneel on their bicep with the top of the shin (just below the kneecap). To finish, grab their hand at the wrist and pull it straight up off the ground as you drive your knee into their bicep.

I first did this from north-south when i did it to a friend just to see what would happen(i did it to BOTH of his arms at the same time in the same way as above. He didn't tap: he just kicked and yelled)

The Bored One

kenpo_dave wrote:

Hey Seamus. You should come back down to training. We were doing armbars from mount recently. Shane would be more than happy to demonstrate any submissions on you that you might have a query about Oh and tell Will I want my DVD back :mad:

OSU,

Dave.

Ha, I still remember the last time I had a query about armbars. That was a lovely crack noise my elbow made
I'll hopefully be back next week, I've been sorting out a bunch of personal stuff, and Im moving up to dublin this week.
I'll grab the dvd and bring it to you hopefully on tuesday.

FiannaGym.com

astfgl wrote:

From mount, try to get your opponents arm flat on the ground with their hand pointing away (like they are showing you their biceps). Now bring your leg up and kneel on their bicep with the top of the shin (just below the kneecap). To finish, grab their hand at the wrist and pull it straight up off the ground as you drive your knee into their bicep.

This sounds like your talking about a bicep slice. I like it as a sub but I find anyone with game will escape out the back door or bridge you. That said I have a fairly "floaty" top game so perhaps its just me.

Peace

Roper

Whats the evil dead hand please? Tell me its just the figure 4 way of killing the arm from top and I'll go nuts. If there was a cool name for that and I've been missing it I'll be really pissed off.

To paraphrase the guy from the fast show: This week I have been mostly not going to mount, or even backing out of mount to go to side control or knee on belly. Its not too bad when someone's actively trying to escape, you can get a sub then or they escape and we roll on, but when someone just lies there with their elbows tucked in and does nothing but defend it can be pretty frustrating. If I get mounted in training I always try the technical escapes to infinity. If I get caught or give up an arm or a choke- so be it, tap, move on. Same goes for top, I just try to kill the arm technically, if I can't do that after a few attempts then I'll switch position instead of flogging a dead horse and having a roll in which neither of us are learning anything.

john kavanagh

Roper wrote:

Whats the evil dead hand please? Tell me its just the figure 4 way of killing the arm from top and I'll go nuts. If there was a cool name for that and I've been missing it I'll be really pissed off..

its a way of 'crawling' your opponents hand up so you can 'figure-4' or 'head'n'arm' choke them. i'll show you on sat if you're at the mma league

Roper wrote:

but when someone just lies there with their elbows tucked in and does nothing but defend it can be pretty frustrating.

the 'black and white' choke or 'northside rapist' (i didn't come up with that name!) should get there elbows out pronto

Roper wrote:

If I get mounted in training I always try the technical escapes to infinity. If I get caught or give up an arm or a choke- so be it, tap, move on. Same goes for top, I just try to kill the arm technically, if I can't do that after a few attempts then I'll switch position instead of flogging a dead horse and having a roll in which neither of us are learning anything.

...and with that mentality you're gonna get good... fast!

David Jones

is evil dead hand the same as addams family hand?
Roper you are probably being too nice to your partners when you roll, elbows will come out / up if you are applying pressure correctly on his neck, or he can pass out :eek:

Roper

john kavanagh wrote:

its a way of 'crawling' your opponents hand up so you can 'figure-4' or 'head'n'arm' choke them. i'll show you on sat if you're at the mma league

I can dig it, I've seen it I just never knew what it was called. AdamsFamilytastic!

john kavanagh wrote:

the 'black and white' choke or 'northside rapist' (i didn't come up with that name!) should get there elbows out pronto

The... ahem... northside rapist has recently been added to my repertoire, but I think I'm gonna have to come up with another name for it:rolleyes:

gymrabbit

The Bored One wrote:

Ha, I still remember the last time I had a query about armbars. That was a lovely crack noise my elbow made

well your query was you can't be armbared. so somebody armbarred you.

The Bored One

gymrabbit wrote:

well your query was you can't be armbared. so somebody armbarred you.

Actually the query was how far my arm can stretch before I need to tap when arm-barred. Was curious how the flexible the thing was.

Roper

The Bored One wrote:

Actually the query was how far my arm can stretch before I need to tap when arm-barred. Was curious how the flexible the thing was.

Wow, what a question. That has to go down with "I wonder how many times I can be hit on the head without passing out" or maybe, "I wonder if I put my head in that crocodile's mouth...":D

Having had my elbow dislocated from an armbar that twisted off in the americana direction a while back, I can tell you that its never a good idea to let your arm get anywhere near its extension. Mine was nowhere near straight when it popped and I didn't have time to tap. What stopped my partner from going further was the loud scream:eek: . I was lucky though there were 2 pops, one out and one in when he sat back up after I yelped. Still couldn't do sh1t for 3 months and whenever anyone gets an Americana or straight arm lock on me now, a weird bruise appears immediately on the inside of my elbow. I don't know why anyone would want to do that voluntarily!!!!

The Bored One

Roper wrote:

Wow, what a question. That has to go down with "I wonder how many times I can be hit on the head without passing out" or maybe, "I wonder if I put my head in that crocodile's mouth...":D

Having had my elbow dislocated from an armbar that twisted off in the americana direction a while back, I can tell you that its never a good idea to let your arm get anywhere near its extension. Mine was nowhere near straight when it popped and I didn't have time to tap. What stopped my partner from going further was the loud scream:eek: . I was lucky though there were 2 pops, one out and one in when he sat back up after I yelped. Still couldn't do sh1t for 3 months and whenever anyone gets an Americana or straight arm lock on me now, a weird bruise appears immediately on the inside of my elbow. I don't know why anyone would want to do that voluntarily!!!!

Heh I guess its the same reason I voulunteered to find out what getting choked out is like. Once I know what its like, it stops being so damn scary. Especially the choke thing, used to be a big fear of mine, but it doesn't seem so bad anymore.
With the arm-bar, generally the guy you're training with will hold it back, because of the fact that its not really something you want to do to someone you know. So I never really knew what someone arm-barring fully was like.
Now that Ive had it go the full way,(well as far as possible without it snapping like a twig), I know when to tap and when I can still move out of it.
Just my way of making sure I don't do something stupid in future or panic.

So a bruise just shows up immediately?

The Bored One

You also have explanation two, which is that Im an idiot. They both cover it pretty well I'd say.