Fiat bravo

gary the great

Going to loom at a fiat bravo 2mrw, 99 with alloys cd player only 50k kms on the clock one lady owner from new, timing belt changed at 40k kms and serviced then aswell. She said its spotless and from the picture it looks it too.

Looking at about 2,250euro. Whats yous think? What should i look for when buying it, known problems etc.

NCT due in January, thats the only thing that hasnt got me rushing to buy it, although the owner said it will breeze through it.

What yous think?

bazz26

gary the great wrote:

Going to loom at a fiat bravo 2mrw, 99 with alloys cd player only 50k kms on the clock one lady owner from new, timing belt changed at 40k kms and serviced then aswell. She said its spotless and from the picture it looks it too.

Looking at about 2,250euro. Whats yous think? What should i look for when buying it, known problems etc.

NCT due in January, thats the only thing that hasnt got me rushing to buy it, although the owner said it will breeze through it.

What yous think?

Make sure that it is the 1.2 litre version as this is as powerful as the 1.4 litre but more economical.

I would be a bit puzzelled as to why the owner is selling the car with the NCT close to expiring. You can do the NCT 6 months prior to it's due date afaik so surely it makes the car easier to sell with 2 years NCT rather than 2 months!

If I were serious about buying the car I would ask her to put it through the NCT now and if it passes give her the price of the NCT test back. If the car sails through as she claims then she should have no issue in doing this.

magentis

be very careful with this.there was a problem with the gearboxes on these.fiat put the wrong gearbox oil in them if i recall correctly.if it wasnt changed run away.sis in law had an 01 brava which has the same engine and gearbox.it packed up after 36k.

colm_mcm

Look out for crunching in the gearbox getween 1st and 2nd, especially when driving it hard, also between 3rd and 2nd, syncromesh is very common to go on the 1.2 model. Also look for rough idling.
Rear wiper is always breaking on Bravos and Bravas, make sure this works, and that the central locking locks and unlocks both doors. Head gaskets not a major problem on this particualr engine, but check for gunk in the oil cap, and also for uneven idling and poor acceleration.

The car should be reading in miles rather than kilometres by the way.

gary the great

bazz26 wrote:

Make sure that it is the 1.2 litre version as this is as powerful as the 1.4 litre but more economical.

I would be a bit puzzelled as to why the owner is selling the car with the NCT close to expiring. You can do the NCT 6 months prior to it's due date afaik so surely it makes the car easier to sell with 2 years NCT rather than 2 months!

If I were serious about buying the car I would ask her to put it through the NCT now and if it passes give her the price of the NCT test back. If the car sails through as she claims then she should have no issue in doing this.

Thanks for the info lads, keep it coming! Will look at the mentioned things.

The owner is a 28 year old woman whos just had a child and got a people carrier, i dont think shes really up to the hassle of puting it through the NCT hence why shes selling it at a cheaper than market price. ive a mechanic coming to look at it with me although he specialises in Peaugot so will not be familiar with the specific problems mentioned, so thanks for the info il pass it on to him.

Anything else i should keep an eye out for? And what yous think of the bravo, i know it hasnt a great repitation. Am I mad?

yellow012

gary the great wrote:

Anything else i should keep an eye out for? And what yous think of the bravo, i know it hasnt a great repitation. Am I mad?

The original 1.4 12v Bravo had a poor reliability reputation but the 1.2 16v 80bhp engine that's probably in this one is a cracking little motor. I had a Punto Sporting which has the same engine for 5 years and didn't have one single problem. Like most Italian cars it does need care and attention, mine was serviced every 6k and the timing belt done at 40k. My sister is still driving it with nearly 100k on the clock and the motor still feels fresh and strong. If it is a genuine well looked after car then it sounds like it could be a good buy.

colm_mcm

€2,250 isn't well below the market price for a private sale by the way.

gary the great

For one with a high spec, perfect condition, fulls ervice history and only 50k kms on the clock, i think it proboably is.

colm_mcm

don't get me wrong, a Focus or Corolla with similar mileage and age would be more expensive, but Bravos and Bravas should always be very, very cheap

I presume it's an SX model with 15" alloys, Abarth side skirts and rear bumper extensions.

bazz26

Also with 50k miles on the clock the timing belt should have been changed recently, if not then it is due so be prepared to budget for this straight away. Might be a useful bargining tool also.

gary the great

colm_mcm wrote:

don't get me wrong, a Focus or Corolla with similar mileage and age would be more expensive, but Bravos and Bravas should always be very, very cheap

I presume it's an SX model with 15" alloys, Abarth side skirts and rear bumper extensions.

ye its the SX version.

the last service was at 42K which included a timing belt change. it looked spotless, but that was to the untrained eye. Going to look at it again Saturday morning with my mechanic mate, if he gives it the thumbs up il buy it then and there.

peasant

with the NCT looming, I would try and wrench a (written) concession out of the seller that they would cover any major repairs (say above 100 euro or so) that the NCT people might deem necessary.

That way you should be safe ...or at least find out if the car has any hidden issue that the seller doesn't want to tell you about if they start getting all squirmish at the prospect

gary the great

peasant wrote:

with the NCT looming, I would try and wrench a (written) concession out of the seller that they would cover any major repairs (say above 100 euro or so) that the NCT people might deem necessary.

That way you should be safe ...or at least find out if the car has any hidden issue that the seller doesn't want to tell you about if they start getting all squirmish at the prospect

TBH if i was selling a car and somebody asked my this, id tell them to take a hike, whether the car was hiding something or not! I cant see a car thats being sold for 2k privately by a woman including a term like this, as much as id love it.

Might pop the question though, you never know

peasant

Well, they did say it would "fly through the NCT" ...in that case they should not get ashen faced if you do indeed "pop the question" ...if they do ...run!

should be a good test, even if they don't sign anything (which I probably wouldn't either if I was them :rolleyes: )

furtzy

magentis wrote:

be very careful with this.there was a problem with the gearboxes on these.fiat put the wrong gearbox oil in them if i recall correctly.if it wasnt changed run away.sis in law had an 01 brava which has the same engine and gearbox.it packed up after 36k.

Exactly that. The gearbox is a very weak spot on these. Also make sure you get the red key as well as the blue key. The red key stores all data on the car i.e immobilise codes etc and is very expensive to replace

The 1.2 engine is much better than the 12V 1.4. I had a 97 1.4 12v one of these and while it didn't give much bother the engine was horrid. Very underpowered and wouldn't rev easily at all

Blue850

My brother had a 00 1.2, he found it very underpowered compared to a Punto and the gearbox packed up at about 50k.

alias no.9

I had a 1.4sx a few years back. No major problems, the clutch bearing went at about 80k miles and a rear suspension bushing needed to be replaced for the NCT, I should say one of the suspension arms because the bushings don't come seperately, a common problem apparently. I always felt the steering was too light and lacking feedback, but that's realy down to personal preference.

gary the great

Lads went out with my mechanic mate today and we took it for a spin, he said comin down from 3rd to 2nd gear wasnt right and the more he drove it the more obvious there was probly a problem with the clutch,. Also the alram was disconnected and the owner couldnt explain it and the my mate said thats a sign theres a problem with the electrics, hes seen it loads before. He said it was wasnt mechancially great and when buying a fiat thats something you must ensure. SO I had to walk away, majorly disappointed cos it ticked all the right boxes and it had the most unbelivable sound system that wasnt even listed in the ad.

The search continues.

colm_mcm

Hard luck. something'll turn up!

johncm

did you ever think of bringing one in from england? they cost a lot less over. was looking at bringing in a 2ltr hgt version and it would cost 2500 euro including vrt for a 99

gary the great

Its far to much hassle to buy one in england

gary the great

Going to have a look at anothr bravo today, although its the 1.4 but its top spec, service recipets every 8k and the last timing belt change at 62k, theres now 80k on the clock, its a 97. Lots of extras on it and an NCT till 7/08. Lookin for about 1500euro which seems reasonable.

Im also goin to have alook at a 323F on the way,its 96 85k on the clock and lookin for about 2200.

Lets hope todays offerings are better than that **** heap i went to look at yesterday.

bazz26

gary the great wrote:

Going to have a look at anothr bravo today, although its the 1.4 but its top spec, service recipets every 8k and the last timing belt change at 62k, theres now 80k on the clock, its a 97. Lots of extras on it and an NCT till 7/08. Lookin for about 1500euro which seems reasonable.

Im also goin to have alook at a 323F on the way,its 96 85k on the clock and lookin for about 2200.

Lets hope todays offerings are better than that **** heap i went to look at yesterday.

The 1.2 litre Bravo is alot better than the 1.4 litre.

bazz26

Did you check out this 323F?
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=540774

It looks tidy enough.

gary the great

Theres no price on that 323f, could be well out my budget like most of the mazdas sold from dealers are.

What makes the 1.2 and 1.4 so different? Reliability, economy?
Id get the 1.2 if i could but i cant find any decent ones.

bazz26

gary the great wrote:

Theres no price on that 323f, could be well out my budget like most of the mazdas sold from dealers are.

Maybe but you will not know for sure until you ask.

gary the great wrote:

What makes the 1.2 and 1.4 so different? Reliability, economy?
Id get the 1.2 if i could but i cant find any decent ones.

I don't have any first hand knowledge but from reading numerous posts on here from people who had these cars the general consensus is that the newer 1.2 litre unit is more economical, more reliable and just as powerful as the old 1.4 litre engine it replaced.

gary the great

went to see the fiat and there was a serious issue with the gearbox, i could hardly get into 2nd. The owner just played dumb but she had to know about it, she just said its always been like that since she bought it but you get used to it :eek: So i ran way from that, there was also a problem with the central locking taking a few tries before the doors would open and the electric window on the driver side didnt work. So i ran from that car.

On the other hand, the mazda was a beauty. The bodywork was clean and it was mechancially grand. Only problem was it didnt have a service history.She just got her boyfriend to do it every now and again. The timing belt was never changed by her and she wasnt to sure about the previous owner. Theres 85k on the clock now, should it have been changed by now?Is it expensive to get done?

And the red light brake light came on after a minute of driving it, whats that mean? Again she hadnt a clue. what that was :rolleyes:

Other than that she was grand, i liked it a lot and the price was reasonable and it NCT'd till this time next year. So whats do yous think?

colm_mcm

get a mechanic to give it the once-over if you're unsure about anything. 323s are generally bulletproof.

bazz26

gary the great wrote:

went to see the fiat and there was a serious issue with the gearbox, i could hardly get into 2nd. The owner just played dumb but she had to know about it, she just said its always been like that since she bought it but you get used to it :eek: So i ran way from that, there was also a problem with the central locking taking a few tries before the doors would open and the electric window on the driver side didnt work. So i ran from that car.

On the other hand, the mazda was a beauty. The bodywork was clean and it was mechancially grand. Only problem was it didnt have a service history.She just got her boyfriend to do it every now and again. The timing belt was never changed by her and she wasnt to sure about the previous owner. Theres 85k on the clock now, should it have been changed by now?Is it expensive to get done?

And the red light brake light came on after a minute of driving it, whats that mean? Again she hadnt a clue. what that was :rolleyes:

Other than that she was grand, i liked it a lot and the price was reasonable and it NCT'd till this time next year. So whats do yous think?

Definately get the car checked out by a good mechanic. Usually if the timing belt has been changed the mechanic that did it puts a little label somewhere visable around the engine bay saying at what mileage it was changed. If it hasn't been changed then I would get it done immediately, better safe than sorry. Also use this as bargining tool to knock down the price if the car checks out.

Kashkai

The original Bravo came out in 96 and won European car of the year. It looked great in the showrooms and I bought a 1.4 12v under the "scrappage scheme" that was in operation at the time.

After 6 months and 12 trips back to the FIAT garage, I got rid of the biggest piece of ****e I've ever had the misfortune of owning. Here are the problems I had in a brand new Bravo:

- driver's door had dropped on its hinges
- seat belt anchorage broke:eek:
- central locking failed several times
- alarm used to switch itself off and open the doors:eek:
- gearbox was very rough
- rubber seals around the doors failed and let rain into the car

Run away from these crap cars. You'll only be buying trouble. BTW, they are cheap cars to buy but you'll spend a fortune keeping it on the road.

green123

one bad car means nothing

zilog_jones

gary the great wrote:

And the red light brake light came on after a minute of driving it, whats that mean...

Could be the brake fluid levels are low and/or the sensor is broken

Kashkai

green123 wrote:

one bad car means nothing

True, but a work colleague had the Brava (the 5 door model) and he had worse luck than me. He ended up in a head on crash with a tree when he skidded on ice and his airbag failed to deploy, even though the crash was serious enough to write off the car and put him in hospital with chest injuries.

The lack of FIAT cars on the roads also points to their poor sales figures caused by dull and unreliable cars. They had their heyday in the mid nineties with the scrappage deal and the "open book" pricing when people bought the cinq/seicentos, punto and bravo/brava. They were cheap cars and to some like me, the first brand new car they could afford. However, they had terrible build quality and reliability. And btw, I'm not just basing these comments on my own experience with a FIAT, my colleagues and friends have owned various models and none of them would buy one again.

cargrouch

If you have to go for a Bravo
1) Red Key! as said before.
2) I would recommend a 1.2 rather than the 1.4. The 1.4 could be pretty thirsty, partly due to a finicky MAF sensor (Mass Air Flow). 1.2 has better engine management.
3)"That" 3rd into 2nd gear change is a "feature" :rolleyes:
4) Timing belt timing belt timing belt!
5) If the airbag sensor light is on, then walk away if you intend doing a driving test in it. This was some sort of problem with wires under the driver seat, but once the system detected a fault it gave the owner a certain amount of miles/driving hours to have the fault checked. If you exceeded that figure the chip locked out apparently and wouldn't reset!
The airbag warning light won't fail NCT but you can't do a driving test in one (I'm guessing you're a new driver at this price range), and as prosperous dave's friend found out, can lead to more serious problems!

I had one for a while, enjoyed it much more than more reliable cars I had since. If you are very stuck for money there are better used car gambles to take though. It could work out to be very cheap and cheerful motoring if your lucky but there is obviously a higher chance of regular enforced garage visits then if you buy jap.

With mine, poorly maintained by previous owner and poorly treated by me:o , the total cost (initial price + repairs) probably worked out the same as if I'd bought a corolla etc.

gary the great

Nearly everyone i mentioned i was buying a bravo to said "N000000"! Everyone had a story to tell about how crap they are!

Hence me buying a Jap instead, i really want as much hassle free driving as possible and therefore ive gone for the realitivly "bulletproof" Mazda 323F which i will be hopefully picking up at the weekeend when the current owner gets her 05 mazda. She said after driving the 323F for a couple of years she will never drive anything else but a mazda. I doubt you would get many Fiat drivers saying that!

galwaytt

bought a new Cinquecento Sporting new, in 96. Brilliant car......currently have an old 1990 Mazda in the garage, also a brilliant car.

Cars? They're worse than people !! Some good, some ****e !! On my recommendation, a friends mother bought a new Brava 1.2 in 97, and another new one in.....00 ?? .....still has it, and she's had no probs. Mind you, it's minded like a baby........

Another friend bought a Marea estate, diesel, and put 100k on it for work - only repairs on it in that time were rear shocks and bushes worn out. Replaced it with Stilo estate diesel and put 90k on that.....no repairs on that at all. Which is more than could be said for his colleague's A4's, etc.......

Now he's got a Skoda, as the accountant told him he had to buy a car with better residuals. FFS ! It looks like the formula he had worked for him....but the Skoda is nice too.....esp as it has the DSG 'box...........brilliant.

So, I think it's a case of buying what YOU like, and what keeps YOU happy, and stuff the rest. !

Riamfada

im driving an 01 bravo. 70k on the clock and it runs like a dream and I have put it through a hell of alot of punishment.

electrics havnt given me too much trouble and the engine is fine.

lovely car , nothing to complain about at all.

JHMEG

yellow012 wrote:

I had a Punto Sporting which has the same engine for 5 years and didn't have one single problem.

:eek: Am I missing something here? My Integra has had the same engine for 16 years! (and hasn't had a single problem, btw)

colm_mcm

I had new Fiats and an Alfa when I was younger, they made sense because they were considerably cheaper than anything else you could get. In the age bracket the OP is loooking at, there is so much choice that it would be foolish to buy gamble on a Bravo for the sake of a few extras. even a new gearbox on a 1.2 will add another 60% to the purchase price.

Gurgle

green123 wrote:

one bad car means nothing

one bad car means the quality control department isn't doing its job.

galwaytt

Gurgle wrote:

one bad car means the quality control department isn't doing its job.

correction: one bad car means PRODUCTION aren't doing their job..........they built it. You shouldn't NEED to 100% every product.

Except at Nissan, where I believe it's 100% QC on ever ycar.

galwaytt

colm_mcm wrote:

I had new Fiats and an Alfa when I was younger, they made sense because they were considerably cheaper than anything else you could get. In the age bracket the OP is loooking at, there is so much choice that it would be foolish to buy gamble on a Bravo for the sake of a few extras. even a new gearbox on a 1.2 will add another 60% to the purchase price.

...that's exactly the point. You cannot buy a 323 for Bravo money, both cars being of equal condition. Fiats are cheap to buy - so expect to sell cheap too. You cannot buy at Fiat prices, and then hope for Toyota prices at selling time, or Toyota quality, either.

It's all relative, as they say. Everything is worth something, the trick is to not spend more than it's worth. And the value should reflect any faults. Doesn't mean don't buy the car, if you're happy to fix it, but you should benefit in the pricing dept.

Oh, as for the wires under the seat and the Airbag light - I had 2 x Audi TT's with the same problem, so you're in good company there...........

yellow012

JHMEG wrote:

:eek: Am I missing something here? My Integra has had the same engine for 16 years! (and hasn't had a single problem, btw)

Hmm a pedantic Pete on Boards..
Ok i'll take the bait and explain :rolleyes: my Punto Sporting had the same type 1.2 engine as in the Bravo. It's been troublefree for the last 7 years whilst in our family and we've no plans to sell it on, so we might yet get 16 years driving out of it as well - touch wood:D .

colm_mcm

galwaytt wrote:

...that's exactly the point. You cannot buy a 323 for Bravo money, both cars being of equal condition. Fiats are cheap to buy - so expect to sell cheap too. You cannot buy at Fiat prices, and then hope for Toyota prices at selling time, or Toyota quality, either.

My point is, that the gap between a Bravo and a quality car like a Toyota and Mazda isn't massive at that age level. I bought the Fiats new because they were the highest spec for the money.
At this age of car, reliability should be a huge deciding factor as you don't wanna be forking out € hundreds (a good percentage of the price of the car) on repairs.