Docked Expenses

pclancy

Im leaving this fecker of an employer fairly soon but want to clarify something if people here now the legalities involved....

One of our sales reps had ran up expenses of over 500 last month and was waiting for his cheque this month. Instead of the full amount he got 100 and a letter saying 400 had been taken back from him due to damage to company property. He had no prior notice of this deduction from his expenses and had not agreed to pay the company the amount demanded.

What happened was he borrowed laptop to type up a report at home (which he was told to do by the boss) then two days after he'd dropped back the laptop it was discovered to have a cracked display which cost 300 to get fixed. It had not been proved in any way that he did the damage and the laptop was not covered under the companies insurance (according to them).
He then went and lost a key to a work vehicle which did not have a spare and was charged the 100 euro to get it replaced.

What is the legal stance here, can an employer just deducted monies from your claimed expenses without telling you or giving you a fair chance to defend yourself? The key fair enough but hes very upset about the laptop and losing 500 of your own money paid out on expenses a month before xmas is obviously not good.

eth0_

The I.T. department should inspect loaned out laptops as soon as they are returned to discover damage asap. I don't see how they can prove it was him who broke the screen in this case.

homeOwner

It sounds a bit much for the employer to dock your mate for things that really should have been covered by insurance. Accidents happen and whether or not it was done by him, companies usually have cover for such things.

How big is the company - if its a multinational, then 400 quid in a month is probably nothing to them. but if it is a small comapny with only a few employees maybe they cant afford to have employees treat their property carelessly, which to be honest, it sounds like your mate did. Presumably these two incidents happened in the same month He should have checked the laptop before he returned it to show it was in good order.

If i was running a company and an employee supposedly broke a laptop and lost car keys in the same month I'd be pissed off.

ToxicPaddy

A company I used to work had to put a procedure in place where any employee who damaged equipment through negligence had to pay an excess of €250 to get the unit replaired.

One user in particular totalled 4 laptops.. so needless to say that person didnt get anymore laptops ever again..

Now in saying that, before a laptop was handed out, it was thoroughly inspected by the IT dept, then the user also gave it the once over. When both parties were happy, an agreement was signed by the user that they would return the laptop in perfect working order and in the same condition they were given it in the first place and this covered both them and the company.

However I think its a bit much just deducting the money without any notice for both the key and laptop. I would definitely challenge the company on this little policy they have, as its his word against theirs in relation to its condition.

As for the key, I think they should give him the option of replacing it himself.

Tox

Millionaire

I had all sorts of things happen with people work for me, as a small company.

If that was me, sure I would be annoyed, but I over a few 100 euro, I would write off, and tell the employee to take better care in future.

Terrible bad will can be created over this business of "docking" employees of petty things.

I think if you have good staff that do a reasonable job, you treat them well, and help them with their mistakes, so they do not do it again, and feel a welcome part of the business.

whats the famous story about some manage who worked for IBM (i think) and he made a mistake that lost IBM millions of dollars. He went in to tell the boss (watson I think was his name), and of course was expecting to be fired on the spot. Watson said something like "thats great, you just learned a multi-million dollar lesson, now get on with your next project", see watson did not want to stunt the creativity of his managers.

pclancy

Thanks for the replies folks.

Yes it is a small company (16 employees) but with a large turnover and certainly no problem paying for repair of a laptop. My point was more to do with is it LEGAL to just confiscate money like that seeing as he'd already used his own money to pay the previous months expenses of hotels, lunches, fuel etc and was given no chance to defend himself or even agree to pay back the money in installments?

Wishbone Ash

This may be helpful:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA25Y1991.html

Payment of Wages Act 1991

5.—(1) An employer shall not make a deduction from the wages of an employee (or receive any payment from an employee) unless—

( a ) the deduction (or payment) is required or authorised to be made by virtue of any statute or any instrument made under statute,
( b ) the deduction (or payment) is required or authorised to be made by virtue of a term of the employee's contract of employment included in the contract before, and in force at the time of, the deduction or payment, or
( c ) in the case of a deduction, the employee has given his prior consent in writing to it.
(2) An employer shall not make a deduction from the wages of an employee in respect of—

( a ) any act or omission of the employee, or
( b ) any goods or services supplied to or provided for the employee by the employer the supply or provision of which is necessary to the employment,
unless—

(i) the deduction is required or authorised to be made by virtue of a term (whether express or implied and, if express, whether oral or in writing) of the contract of employment made between the employer and the employee, and
(ii) the deduction is of an amount that is fair and reasonable having regard to all the circumstances (including the amount of the wages of the employee), and
(iii) before the time of the act or omission or the provision of the goods or services, the employee has been furnished with—
(I) in case the term referred to in subparagraph (i) is in writing, a copy thereof,
(II) in any other case, notice in writing of the existence and effect of the term,
and
(iv) in case the deduction is in respect of an act or omission of the employee, the employee has been furnished, at least one week before the making of the deduction, with particulars in writing of the act or omission and the amount of the deduction, and
(v) in case the deduction is in respect of compensation for loss or damage sustained by the employer as a result of an act or omission of the employee, the deduction is of an amount not exceeding the amount of the loss or the cost of the damage, and
(vi) in case the deduction is in respect of goods or services supplied or provided as aforesaid, the deduction is of an amount not exceeding the cost to the employer of the goods or services, and
(vii) the deduction or, if the total amount payable to the employer by the employee in respect of the act or omission or the goods or services is to be so paid by means of more than one deduction from the wages of the employee, the first such deduction is made not later than 6 months after the act or omission becomes known to the employer or, as the case may be, after the provision of the goods or services.

pclancy

Many thanks wishbone, I stupidly went looking for that on Oasis, :rolleyes: Thanks!

So they're legally allowed to do that but didnt provide him with notice in writing before hand or get his signed agreement therefore it was not legal? Hmmm....