Is the new control system just a gimmick?

Cianos

This is my main concern about the Wii. Is the motion sensor-based control system just a gimmick that will quickly reach its own stage of 'been there done that'. At first it may seem incredibly innovative and interesting and a new challenge, but will it get as normal as analog control for example? The games will have to be of a high quality as games, and not just get by on the wow factor of 'oh look, you control it with motion'. For the people who have played the Wii at the Toys 4 Big Boys, do you think there is a long term interest in motion control, or will we have to see a steady outlay of very solid games for the Wii to keep everyones interest?

projectmayhem

tbh, it is a gimmick that's more interesting then normal. you can't simply ignore the standard controller. most reviews say it's very, very cool, but it's no alternative for the playstation or xbox controllers.

i think nintendo had to think quick to play catch up this gen, and this is how they're doing it without spending billions in R&D on new technology. the wiimote is simple, easy and genuinely fun to play with. as a viable option for marathon sessions of the nintendo halo-killer type game? not really. you won't beat the standard controller, or even keyboard & mouse for general gaming.

same rule as the DS. yeah, it's a gimmick... but it's an interesting one that works very well. you'll get some truely fantastic games that take full advantage of the system, but you'll always want to play Pro Evo, halo or gran turismo type games with the "normal" control mechanism.

plus, i can't imagine playing some of those games for hours on end. looks tiring. we may see kids with bulging arms in 3 years

Darnell13

The way I see it there are two main questions about the controller:

A. Does it really work as well as it's meant to? Watching people lep about on the promo videos is all well and good, but we need some hands on from real gamers to know if it is really any good, and,

B. well, what Cianos said. ie will developers be making innovative titles in 12/24 months, or will the novelty wear off leaving us with a few good games for a while, and very little thereafter.

Well, the answer to A seems to be that it's all good. The reports from the show in the rds are all very positive, anyone who played it can't wait for another go.
As for B, well who knows? Were people sceptical when analogue controllers were first introduced? Or shoulder buttons? This is possibly just a bigger step, but is it in the right direction? Don't know. We can just guess, and once again, I'm willing to trust the big N. Whether or not third party developers will still be as interested in a couple of years, I don't know....bloody hope so.
All in all I can't wait to get my hands on it. Haven't been this excited about a controller....ever, I guess!

Retr0gamer

I think there will be a lot of games that will use the standard control scheme. Smash bros. for instance will be controllable with the GC and classic controller as well as the wiimote and nunchuk. Also games like FPS's will use the controls to simulate the mouse and keyboard setup. It's not like we have to abandon the old control system, it's still there. Just like the DS a lot of games use the standard D-pad and buttons. However there are games that take full advantage of the DS like Kirby, Meteos and Quendan.

I had my doubts about the DS when it launched but it's turned out to be one of the greatest consoles I've owned. I think the same thing will happen with the Wii. Once nintendo calms down with trying to shoehorn the wii mote into every game we will see games with the traditional control style as well as games that take full advantage of what the wiimote has to offer.

tw0nk

I played the wii on saturday in the rds, and to be honest at that moment in the rds with the limited demos available to play, i would have to say that yes the control is a gimmick.

But later when people asked me about the wii, i was explaining to them how it worked and I must admit with more practise etc I think the games will be much more interesting than playing games with standard controller.

I totally disagree with projectmayhem's post with regards wanting to go back to normal controllers, i got home on sat and played my ps2 with normal controller and it was boring.

Every game that will come out on ps3 and 360 will be more of the same, the same old games and methods of playing them, and while il admit that a lot of these games are fun, especially playing online, the future of gameplay the ps3 and 360 are not.

It needs something new, is the wii the way forward or will it fail trying to change the way we play games? only time will tell.

wayne040576

I think the Wii will be a testbed for this type of control system. If it fails then nintendo lose out. If it takes off and developers like it, we may see more refined versions of it appearing in the future and on other systems. It's always good to see something new being tried out rather than the same old game types each generation just with better graphics. It may flop when the novelty wears off, so I guess we'll see. The biggest issue I have with the machine is the region lock on all games, which I think is a really stupid move considering the two other consoles are leaving it up to the publishers to decide.

Retr0gamer

I'm just hoping we get a freeloader type device. Freeloader never hurt Nintendo (well maybe Nintendo Europe but they are all the same company). I don't want to have to chip my Wii just to playa game Nintendo doesn't deem europe or the western world fit to play. Nintendo also seem to be back to their old ways what with the mother 3 translation and release up in the air and probably unlikely to be released. Thank god for fan translations.

iregk

Well I don't see it as a gimmick on the basis that we need something new. We have had so many years of controller based play that its got old. The 360 and PS3 are nothign more than juiced up versions of their predicessors. Sure Sony have had the same controller for 12 years for gods sake. now thats just lazy.

This ain't next generation its new generation and I'm all for it. What I ain't really in the mood for is the same games all over again with better sound and graphics. This is exactly the way the PS3 and 360 are shaping up.

tw0nk

I agree completely with iregk about the other consoles merely beefing up their systems to play yet again more of the same games, no innovation whatsoever, online play, wow thats only been around for 15 years, come on!

I also agree with wayne, the method of control will be watched closely and if it works it will be improved and re-implemented in the future, playing fishing in zelda with the controller was great fun, the only gripe i have is that the controller isnt rechargeable.

flogen

Cianos wrote:

This is my main concern about the Wii. Is the motion sensor-based control system just a gimmick that will quickly reach its own stage of 'been there done that'. At first it may seem incredibly innovative and interesting and a new challenge, but will it get as normal as analog control for example? The games will have to be of a high quality as games, and not just get by on the wow factor of 'oh look, you control it with motion'. For the people who have played the Wii at the Toys 4 Big Boys, do you think there is a long term interest in motion control, or will we have to see a steady outlay of very solid games for the Wii to keep everyones interest?

Gimmick? hmm, well I don't think Nintendo intend it to be a gimmick, they seem quite serious about using it (as any announced 1st party title shows)... the problem is that it may largely become a gimmick if the majority of Wii games don't use it or phone it in.
I don't think the devs have to go out and create nothing but innovative titles, there are a lot of same-old, same-old games that could benefit from the new controller (FPS, for example)... at the same time I do hope the wiimote inspires them to do something different, and hopefully when using motion sensitivity isn't blatently obvious (as it is in some game types) the devs will give it some thought before just using the GC or classic controller... on the other side of the coin I hope they don't force motion sensitivity into the game as some devs have done for the DS.

It won't replace the old method at all, partly because there's no obvious way to bridge the gap and take the benefits of both control methods in one single device (look at the sixaxis, now that's a gimmick; note they way any dev using it is allowing people to turn it off, meaning it's by no means central to the game, just fluff).

Basically, it being percieved as a gimmick or something else all depends on how it's used; there's plenty of game types that can benefit from the controller and plenty that won't; I just hope the devs are imaginative and sensible enough to see which ones are which.

Retr0gamer

Have to agree that the six axis is the real gimmick. The PS control design has always been awful. I'd prefer a decent D-pad to limited motion sensing. We saw at E3 just how badly Warhawk controlled. People complain about large movements with the wiimote, look at the guy playing warhawk he's all over the place, comical stuff indeed. Most games are shoehorning it in if at all. Resistance you shake off enemies by shaking the controller. Wow big innovation, except it was done already in House of the Dead 4 about 2 years ago.. Also the lack of vibration is a real step back. Sony should just settle with immersion like Nintendo and MS did (although I think Nintendo use their own vibration design instead of stealing from immersion).

Goodshape

I couldn't possibly see myself going without the classic and/or gamecube controller for the Wii (and I really hope the two of them are completely interchangeable). I know for a fact that I'll have a need for the standard controls, be it for classic games or something like Smash Bros., and with the price of the Wii I don't see the extra expense as too much of a problem, but I also wonder if there's going to be anybody that'll be satisfied with just the Wiimote / Nunchuck.

I think it may become a major hindrance for both users and developers that there isn't something more standard in the bundle. The Wiimote will no doubt be a welcome innovation for a lot of types of games, some old (FPS, strategy, point and click type things) and some new, but trying to work it into something like a fighting game will probably feel like an unwelcome gimmick.

That being said, I wouldn't go without the Wiimote either and really look forward to the new gameplay styles it's going to allow. But yea, it's not for all game types.

I do hope it works out though, and I hope we see enough decent and innovative implementations of it that the games in which it doesn't work become less of an issue.

I think once the first batch of games don't completely suck (and although I haven't seen reviews yet, the launch line-up does seem pretty strong) and users and developers start getting a feel for the Wiimote, we'll see some pretty cool new things in the next few years.

So yea, the Wiimote is an innovation rather than a gimmick imo, but for some tried and tested gaming methods innovation just isn't really necessary anymore. Time will tell whether or not the Wii can survive without easy access to those games.

flogen

Goodshape wrote:

I think it may become a major hindrance for both users and developers that there isn't something more standard in the bundle. The Wiimote will no doubt be a welcome innovation for a lot of types of games, some old (FPS, strategy, point and click type things) and some new, but trying to work it into something like a fighting game will probably feel like an unwelcome gimmick.

Sorry, a bit OT, but I'd bet part of the reason for not bundling the classic controller was that making it standard with the machine would allow lazy devs to rely on it more; this way they know that they might damage sales if they don't use the Wiimote and so are forced to use their brains!
(that said I'd bet that Smash Bros. will come bundled with the classic controller)

tba

Retr0gamer wrote:

Have to agree that the six axis is the real gimmick....Most games are shoehorning it in if at all. Resistance you shake off enemies by shaking the controller. Wow big innovation, except it was done already in House of the Dead 4 about 2 years ago..

It has its uses as stated, it also allows developers to use different control interfaces apart from the D-Pad can you really complain?

Retr0gamer wrote:

Also the lack of vibration is a real step back.

Im sorry, but do you really think that vibration is step forward? What in holy hell has vibration ever done to improve the game experience? The only position it could possibly have is as a supplement to visual obviousness already occuring on screen.

As for the Wii thingy, I'm still sceptical, not because I think it will be **** but because, I haven't decided thats its not yet.

Goodshape

flogen wrote:

Sorry, a bit OT, but I'd bet part of the reason for not bundling the classic controller was that making it standard with the machine would allow lazy devs to rely on it more; this way they know that they might damage sales if they don't use the Wiimote and so are forced to use their brains!

I guess you're right, but I think if dev's are forced into using the Wiimote in games where it simply isn't needed or wanted (fighting games I think would be the prime example here, and historically a very popular genera) then they risk making the whole thing seem gimicky by assosiation.

But like I said, who knows : maybe they'll find enough interesting new styles of gameplay that people will learn to move on from the Street Fighter / Tekken / etc. way of doing things. That might take some time though.

(that said I'd bet that Smash Bros. will come bundled with the classic controller)

Actually, I hadn't thought of that. I hope you're right, it would make a lot of sense.

Goodshape

tba wrote:

Im sorry, but do you really think that vibration is step forward?

I don't think it's all that big a deal, but it defeintly adds to the experience in at least a small way and it's a silly thing to remove.

tba wrote:

What in holy hell has vibration ever done to improve the game experience? The only position it could possibly have is as a supplement to visual obviousness already occuring on screen.

Well, I do think it adds a little something to feel a shake when you get shot / run over a bump / etc., and to name but one small (but welcome) non-visually-obvious example : a little tingle in the controller, in a Zelda game for instance, can alert you to a secret nearby. The fact that this isn't visually obvious adds to the experience.

Retr0gamer

Vibration only adds a little bit of immersion but it's something that shouldn't be left out since it's now expected in games. If you play a game without vibration you do miss it. It adds a whole new level to games that use it well. I was amazed when MGS came out and the excellent and subtle use of vibration and I'm replaying N64 games at the moment and I'm loving the bone shattering vibration from the rumble pack in those games. The lack of vibration would be akin to launching a console with 1 controller port. We expect to have 4 nowadays.

I really think the six-axis isn't going to work all that well. Just look at the E3 videos of warhawk nd watch everybody bounce the plane uncontrollably off the walls.

MikeHoncho

I think that the Wii mote should hopefully lend itself to the invention of whole new types of games the likes no one has ever seen or thought of before.

We shouldnt think of it in terms of FPS or platformers or sports games as they are classically presented to us and how we are used to them but more as to the new types of games we are going to see.

If you think about the controls we are used to they have restricted developers to only being able to do so much in pushing the boundaries. Now they have a freedom to try all different kinds of things and give us as gamers all different types of experiences we have never had before on a games console. Some of these experiences will be failures but I am really looking forward to the succeses and at least it will force devs to really try new things rather than just producing yearly updates of the same games.

Goodshape

MikeHoncho wrote:

We shouldnt think of it in terms of FPS or platformers

Well, I think (hope) it will work great with FPS, but platformers! I knew I forgot something!

I don't actually play fighting games too much, but I booted up the original NES Super Mario Bros. the other day on an emulator and played away at it for ages. That game and format still has a lot of charm, even up to modern titles like Viewtiful Joe and Alien Hominid. I'd never want to give up the ability to play 'simple' games like that.

...although, then I remember that the Wiimote can be fliped on it's side and turned into a rather simplified standard controler, while retaining the motion sensing. That could leave the door open for a whole host of more retro/classic gameplay styles that can be oh-so enjoyable.

Heh. I don't really know whether any of this will be as good as it could be, but by gods I can't wait to find out.

flogen

Goodshape wrote:

...although, then I remember that the Wiimote can be fliped on it's side and turned into a rather simplified standard controler, while retaining the motion sensing. That could leave the door open for a whole host of more retro/classic gameplay styles that can be oh-so enjoyable.

Yeah, on it's side it's basically a white and shiney NES controller, which is pretty cool...
I wonder if they'll invent an adaptor that lets you put your original NES,SNES and N64 titles into the machine... (and eat profits from the VC? Yeah right!)

DrunkLeprachaun

Well, I've given this some thought, and I'm going to have to say; no, I don't think it's a gimmick. It provides entirely new ways to play games. Launch titles are only scratching the surface of what can be done. Developers are going to steal the best bits of those games, hopefully tack on some ideas of their own, and gameplay sophistication will increase with the system's age. That's not to say none of the launch titles seem to use it that well; COD3, warioware, trauma surgeon, wii sports etc. all should be significantly enhanced by the capabilities of the wiimote.

There seems to be a common attitude that the wiimote just won't work at all with traditional games, and I'm pretty certain this is a misconception. Twighlight princess would be a perfect example of this. It plays pretty much the same as any other 3d zelda game. True, you physically move the controler to swing your sword. It only requires a minimal movement of the wrist, so even if you don't like it much, I'm pretty certain everyone will get used to it, and it won't be much of a problem. From my playing of it at the RDS, I thought it was pretty good. It added another visceral level of immersion to combat, and it really didn't seem tacked on. The other major way it'll affect the game is aiming with ranged weapons. In this case, I doubt there will be many earnestly wanting to go back to the old analogue stick ways. It's just better. This is of course ignoring all the little ways it'll subtly improve the game. I didn't play the fishing demo at the RDS, but most reports I've read about it sing its praises. The wii won't so much revolutionise traditional gameplay, but allow more ways in which the player can interact with the world. These might not all be better than a pad, but with good games, I don't think it'll ever be too much worse.

The final reason I can't ****ing blooddy goddamn wait four weeks(filthy BASTARD americans) to get my hands on one again is that actually physically interacting with a game, using movements at least vaguely replicating what your onscreen avatar is doing is extremely involving. Perhaps people who haven't played it, or havent been spending ridiculous amounts of time scouring the internet for every minute factoid about the wii they can hang their retinas on, might not understand this completely. Actually doing the motion of thowing a bowling ball, or pulling a pool cue back and forward to hit a ball, or boxing, or driving, is not the same experience as twiddling a little stick with your thumb. Ever notice the way, when you're really into a game you tend to jerk the controller around(I might be wrong, but doesn't everyone?)? This seems to me one step closer to those full body virtual reality games that everyone really wanted as a kid.

It's possible I'm completely off base. Anyone blindly confident that the wii will be absolutely perfect, and will soar majestically over sony and microsoft, then stomp them into a fine goo is being a little unreasonable. However, judging by the pre-launch reception it's getting, by the fact that it doesn't seem that unlikely that nintendo will sell most of their 4 million units before the end of the year(an uprecedentedly huge initial instal base), by nintendo's $200 million marketing campaign, it's looking pretty damn likely the wii will be a comercial success. The more people that buy the wii, the more third party support it gets, the more games it gets, the more good games it gets, the more people buy it. From all I've read over the past few weeks, I can't see the wii as being anything but a enormous seller, and anything that sells well is copied a ****load(sony got in their early with the sixaxis crap). Maybe it won't be copied and we'll all go back to controllers. Either way, the wii will be ****loads of fun along the ride.

...You know, I don't actually set out to write such pointlessly long and rambling posts. My interest in the wii is bordering on obsession, and there's not much I can seem to do about it. 4 weeks. C'mon....