Changes to Library fines

Unshelved

Changes to Library fines - applied from 1st November
http://www.tcd.ie/Library/services/pdf/Schedule%20of%20Library%20fines%20.pdf

gymrabbit

So if you take a sip of a bottle of water you'll get fined? Who will be patroling?

No, there's no problem with that from what I was told last year as long as the water stays on the desk. They sound harsh, but they're designed to fine those who cause the most trouble (packets of crisps in library, for example. Very annoying!)

The library are generally ok when it comes to these things. And gymrabbit, you've never been in the Ussher and seen a library cop come around?

Tricity Bendix

You'll get fined if you fail to comply when asked.

I've seen many a patrol while studying in the Usher. I presume its the same throughout all the libraries.

€50 euros is quite a steep admin charge for misplacing a book. In addition to the replacement cost the average fine would be well in excess of €100. I suppose the message is clear: don't lose your library books. But, still, students are humans and not robots. Accidents do happen.

Tricity Bendix

Myth wrote:

No, there's no problem with that from what I was told last year as long as the water stays on the desk. They sound harsh, but they're designed to fine those who cause the most trouble (packets of crisps in library, for example. Very annoying!)

Hmm, I've always been told to keep my bottle of water on the ground.

Also, this particular fine also helps keep the library clean. Some people treat Aungier St. library like its a lunch room and it makes the place look dreadful.

Nietzschean

b.ie curious wrote:

I presume its the same throughout all the libraries.

Don't think i've seen a anything like a patrol ever in the hamilton, occasional a librarian walks around, but sure they could just be looking for someone, never seen them ever say anything to anyone....

Tricity Bendix

Nietzschean wrote:

Don't think i've seen a anything like a patrol ever in the hamilton, occasional a librarian walks around, but sure they could just be looking for someone, never seen them ever say anything to anyone....

That is a shame.

b.ie curious

b.ie curious wrote:

Hmm, I've always been told to keep my bottle of water on the ground.

Also, this particular fine also helps keep the library clean. Some people treat Aungier St. library like its a lunch room and it makes the place look dreadful.

Whoops, freudian slip there I meant to say it's meant to be on the ground!

Tacitha

The administrative fee on top of the replacement fee for lost books does seem high - but I'd imagine that's an attempt to counteract people "losing" books as opposed to losing books. Given that many books in the library are out of print and in some cases impossible to replace, I suppose there has to be a deterrent.

Degsy

Just watch yesser selves allright!;)

sully-gormo

Yep, never seen a patrol in the Hamilton, tho usually its grand. Can be noisy during the day with ppl coming and going but in the evenings its great. Ive often had a snack in there. I was in the Lecky and the Ussher and theyre not as quiet IMO, sit near the doors in the Lecky and u wont get any work done. But at least the ussher has architecture going for it-its a lovely building inside.

John

I've used all the libraries bar the Lecky and I've never seen anyone patrolling them or approaching anyone for anything other than using their phone at the issue desk (you have to be a moron to do that in fairness). Equally, apart from the odd conversation I've never seen anything that amounts to a disturbance in the library so I think the system works.

John

John wrote:

I've used all the libraries bar the Lecky

I've never seen anything that amounts to a disturbance in the library so I think the system works.

There's your problem so.

John

My problem is that I never used the Lecky? OK.

Crash

the lecky is a thoroughfare - if I wanted to study somewhere that noisy, i'd sit on the block things in the arts block.

Yeah the Lecky is ridiculous for studying in unless you actually WANT to people watch or look out of the window. What is their issue with water being on the desk? In case you spill it over their precious books?

Or on to the desks, yeah.

Black_Couch

Refusing to show student I.D? I've never seen it done but I'd say it could be done especially if you were trying to dodge a €100 fine! Unless of course they remember your face and put a big print out from CCTV of you at all entrances to the libraries, in that case your pretty much ****ed.

WunderFull

They can't legally be called fines anyhow, only the law can use that term. So "charge" is the correct term that should be applied.

Tricity Bendix

WunderFull wrote:

They can't legally be called fines anyhow, only the law can use that term. So "charge" is the correct term that should be applied.

I had no idea.

Do you have any evidence to back this up? If so, I would very much like to see it.

xeduCat

The only thing I can think of is the kooky but amusing argument that pops up every now and again, that because the (1689) (English) Bill of Rights says something about fines not being levied before conviction, things like "parking fines" are invalid. But it has had little success (usually because of the monster raving loonies that bring the cases) and I haven't heard of it in Ireland.

I'm sure, however, that a constitutional challenge in the High Court to prohibit a library (indeed, all libraries) from using said offensive term would be treated with all due respect and wonder.

Or perhaps there is a little-known Charges (Not Fines) (Consolidation) (Amendment) Act, 1948 that I am not familiar with.

Time Magazine

I'm sure Board will approve a sub-committee to look into it presently.

Tricity Bendix

Could we not just get a law student to bring the library to court?