Ireland driving on the Right?

G Luxel

Our road signs and speedometers are now in Kms and now there are many east european drivers on the road. Should we as a nation go in line with Europe and drive on the right? It would probably take about 4 or 5 years to prepare for the change over. This happened in Sweden in I967. It could result in older people giving up driving and maybe a reduction in road deaths. The cost of motor cars would come down as RHD is expensive. What do others think of this?

MrJoeSoap

G Luxel wrote:

Our road signs and speedometers are now in Kms and now there are many east european drivers on the road. Should we as a nation go in line with Europe and drive on the right? It would probably take about 4 or 5 years to prepare for the change over. This happened in Sweden in I967. It could result in older people giving up driving and maybe a reduction in road deaths. The cost of motor cars would come down as RHD is expensive. What do others think of this?

Can't see it working, and can't see any correlation between switching to the right hand side and a reduction in road deaths.

maidhc

G Luxel wrote:

This happened in Sweden in I967. It could result in older people giving up driving and maybe a reduction in road deaths.

Too many cars now I'd say. 1967 was a different world .

If older people can get a medical cert and get their eyes tested they should be allowed drive. I'd hate a culture where we kicked people off the road the day they got a bit slow at the lights.

fjon

I don't see any advantage in doing so, and it would be painful and expensive process. Why bother?

Pherekydes

What age would you put them off at? I think younger drivers would have more problems switching over. If the Brits don't do it we never will, and they haven't even adopted the €uro, so they're not going to change anytime soon.

Wishbone Ash

G Luxel wrote:

This happened in Sweden in I967

6am on September 3rd 1967. Traffic was suspended at 1 am (except for emergency vehicles) and resumed at 6am when that photograph was taken. It was very expensive and took 4 years of planning. All media were used and house visits took place to educate people. Special instruction was given to the aged , the blind and guide dogs. Schools opened a week early to give driving instruction. The main bus company had an enormous expense adapting their fleet. Accidents rates plummeted for the first few weeks presumably as motorists were over cautious.

The weird thing was that, in Sweden, private cars always had the steering wheel on the left enen when they drove on the left.

If it happened here, it would make crossing the border interesting. :eek:

Victor

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Accidents rates plummeted for the first few weeks presumably as motorists were over cautious.

No, they slashed the speed limit to something like 30km/h and gradually raised it.

Tipsy Mac

G Luxel wrote:

The cost of motor cars would come down as RHD is expensive.

Importing a LHD car at the moment has little or no savings compared to an Irish RHD model due to VRT, nothing will change with regard prices of cars until we stop paying this illegal importation tax from goods sourced within the EU.

Wishbone Ash

Tipsy Mac wrote:

this illegal importation taxes

Registration tax!

Tipsy Mac

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Registration tax!

Why then do UK owners who have had their car for more than six months and diplomats who want to bring their car here get their registration plate for free?

Wishbone Ash

Tipsy Mac wrote:

Why then do UK owners who have had their car for more than six months and diplomats who want to bring their car here get their registration plate for free?

Many owners do not have to pay registration tax:

Finance Act 1992

134.—(1) A vehicle may, subject to any conditions, restrictions or limitations prescribed by the Minister by regulations made by him under section 141 be registered without payment of vehicle registration tax if the vehicle is—

( a ) the personal property of a private individual and is being brought permanently into the State by the individual when he is transferring his normal residence from a place outside the State to a place in the State,
( b ) being brought permanently into the State as part of the capital goods and other equipment of a business undertaking which definitively ceases its activity outside the State and moves to the State in order to carry on a similar activity there,
( c ) the personal property of a deceased person and is being brought permanently into the State by a person resident in the State, or a person or body of persons established in the State and engaged in a non-profit making activity, who either acquired by inheritance the ownership or beneficial ownership of such vehicle or is the personal representative resident in the State of the deceased person,
( d ) given as a gift, in token of friendship or good will by an official body, public authority or group carrying on an activity in the public service or interest, which is located outside the State, to an official body, public authority or group carrying on an activity in the public service or interest, which is located in the State and is approved by the Commissioners for the purposes of this paragraph,
( e ) for official use by an institution of the European Communities,
( f ) for the personal use of officials or other members of the staff of an institution of the European Communities who transfer their residence to the State to take up a position there with an institution of the European Communities,
( g ) supplied under diplomatic, consular or similar arrangements by virtue of the Diplomatic Relations and Immunities Acts, 1967 and 1976, and orders made thereunder.
(2) Effect may be given to the provisions of subsection (1) by means of a repayment of vehicle registration tax subject to any conditions the Commissioners see fit to impose.
(3) The reliefs allowed under the Disabled Drivers (Tax Concessions) Regulations, 1989 (S.I. No. 340 of 1989), shall apply with any necessary modifications to vehicle registration tax.
(4) A vehicle may be registered, subject to such conditions, limitations and restrictions (if any) as the Commissioners may impose, without payment of vehicle registration tax and with the repayment of any such tax paid, where the Commissioners are satisfied that such vehicle is for use—
(i) in the establishment or maintenance of an international air service using or involving the use of an airport in the State,
(ii) in the establishment or maintenance of radio or meteorological services or other aids to air navigation ancillary to any such international air service, or
(iii) for experimental purposes in connection with the establishment or maintenance of any such international air service.
(5) Whenever the Minister so thinks proper, he may authorise the Commissioners to register a vehicle, subject to such conditions, limitations or restrictions (if any) as they may impose, either without payment of vehicle registration tax or on payment of the tax at less than the rate ordinarily chargeable or, where the said tax has been paid, to repay the tax in whole or in part.

peasant

That's just not feasable any more. Every single motorway/dual carriageway on- and offramp would have to be re-engineered. Traffic lights would have to be re-postioned, road signs as well, the same with road markings at intersections.

Waaaaay too expensive ....

Just My View

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Registration tax!

I am sick to death of hearing that tired old line being trotted out.
Isn't it true that when the when the Eu open border policy would have allowed tax free imports from other Eu states the Irish Govt introduced a so called "Vehicle Registration Tax" which just happened to be exactly the same amount as was collected from the old import tax? We are being ripped off by our own Govt. Face it and leave out the hypocracy, nobody is buying it.

zilog_jones

If we start driving on the right, what's going to happen to the industry built up around importing used cars from Japan and the UK?

It would cost the government millions to do, and we won't really gain anything out of it.

Wishbone Ash

zilog_jones wrote:

If we start driving on the right, what's going to happen to the industry built up around importing used cars from Japan and the UK?

It would cost the government millions to do, and we won't really gain anything out of it.

The transport costs of importing cars from Japan (€800 per unit average) would probably be slashed if we imported from our neighbours in mainland Europe.

BTW - I would not like to switch to driving on the right.

sprinkles

what with us being an island nation it would serve no point. Sweden was surrounded by countries which drove on the right so it was in their interest to change. As has already been said there are far more cars on the road now and it would be a major upset to an already crippled traffic issue in dublin at least.

Also think of all the useless Buses we'd have.... (although there's a case that they are pretty useless as it is )

Tipsy Mac

zilog_jones wrote:

If we start driving on the right, what's going to happen to the industry built up around importing used cars from Japan and the UK?

They will have to retrain in how to clock left hand drive cars

Wishbone Ash

sprinkles wrote:

what with us being an island nation it would serve no point

Exactly. The vast majority of countries which drive on the left are island nations OR share land borders with other countries who drive on the left.
There are a few countries who share land borders and do not drive on similar sides. (They tend to be poorer countries with a less developed infrastructure).

Examples:

Afganistan/Pakistan
Thailand/Burma
China/Nepal
India/China
Kenya/Ethiopia
Namibia/Angola

el tel

Driving on the right? Don't we already do that on the motorways?

bazz26

Irish motorists in general are poor drivers as it is. Can you imagine the carnage if we are told to switch to the other side. What would we do with all the rhd cars in the country at the moment? Export them to the UK?

Plus could our economy afford all those McDonalds and Burger King drive thru converstions.

Wishbone Ash

bazz26 wrote:

could our economy afford all those McDonalds and Burger King drive thru converstions.

I saw a chap in a LHD Ferrari approach the Red Long Term car park in Dublin Airport recently. I was expecting him to do the usual - get out and walk around to pull the ticket. No, not this guy. He gives a quick look around, then a handbrake turn, reverses in, pulls ticket and another handbrake turn to rectify his position again. Cool bástard. :cool:

Vegeta

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I saw a chap in a LHD Ferrari approach the Red Long Term car park in Dublin Airport recently. I was expecting him to do the usual - get out and walk around to pull the ticket. No, not this guy. He gives a quick look around, then a handbrake turn, reverses in, pulls ticket and another handbrake turn to rectify his position again. Cool bástard. :cool:

probably wasn't a handbrake, just floored it from standing with the wheel turned. rear wheel drive

My brothers call it "diffing"


still a cool bastard, no way i'd try that in a car that expensive

Seth Brundle

Didn't Jim McDaid try to change the side of the road we drive on?

el tel

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I saw a chap in a LHD Ferrari approach the Red Long Term car park in Dublin Airport recently. I was expecting him to do the usual - get out and walk around to pull the ticket. No, not this guy. He gives a quick look around, then a handbrake turn, reverses in, pulls ticket and another handbrake turn to rectify his position again. Cool bástard. :cool:

Are you sure it wasn't an MR2-based replica?;)

drdre

no it can never work now,there too many cars and it would take YEARS.

Wishbone Ash

el tel wrote:

Are you sure it wasn't an MR2-based replica?;)

I don't know. They don't particularly interest me. It was red, had a prancing horse on the rear, beige leather interior and 'Ferrari' was written on it. (The make is irrevelant to the story anyway).

BnA

This map shows the side ofd the road for driving on throughout the world

el tel

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I don't know. They don't particularly interest me. It was red, had a prancing horse on the rear, beige leather interior and 'Ferrari' was written on it. (The make is irrevelant to the story anyway).

I only said it (with a ) as someone usually does!

Given some of the other threads on here at the minute, if he was driving a LHD 'girlie' car he SO would not have been a cool bástard

Wishbone Ash

el tel wrote:

I only said it (with a ) as someone usually does!

Given some of the other threads on here at the minute, if he was driving a LHD 'girlie' car he SO would not have been a cool bástard

No problem.

Wishbone Ash

BnA wrote:

This map shows the side ofd the road for driving on throughout the world

From http://www.brianlucas.ca/roadside/

el tel

Wishbone Ash wrote:

From http://www.brianlucas.ca/roadside/

Something interesting from that site on the subject of exceptions to the national uniformity:

Ireland

Parnell Bridge in Cork. One-way traffic approaching from opposite quays hug the right-hand-side of the road over the bridge. (Red Shannon)

Anyone familiar with this place?

Wishbone Ash

el tel wrote:

Something interesting from that site on the subject of exceptions to the national uniformity

United States of America

There is a rather dramatic segment of Interstate 5 where one drives on the left. It is on the Five Mile Grade coming into the Los Angeles area from the north.

:eek: :eek:

There is/was in Monaghan Town, two way street off a one way street. You have to enter the two way street (i.e. a right turn) on the right side. I think it leads to a public car park.

In lots of private shopping centre carparks in Dublin, one has to enter on the right as they are off one way streets. (It's to avoid having to cross over exiting traffic)

Gandhi

el tel wrote:

Anyone familiar with this place?

Yep. I used always think it was cool when my Dad drove over it on the wrong side. As far as I remember, there is a concrete median all the way along, so there is no danger of someone crossing over.

Hotblack Desiato

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Special instruction was given to the aged , the blind and guide dogs.

They let blind people drive in Sweden? :eek: :eek:

BnA

A slight variation from the point.... but...

I was watching some Canadian comedien the other night on the Comedy Channel from the Edinborough festival.

He was making a joke of the fact that in the UK (and Ireland) you can cross the street to park on the opposite side of the street. i.e. On a two way street with parking on both sides, you can park whereever you want.

According to him, this is illegal in Canada and the US. i.e. You can only park on the same side of the street that you can drive on.

Is this true ?

Sangre

yeah, have to face direction of traffic aswell afaik.

galwaytt

You can only park on the same side of the street that you can drive on.

Is this true ?

mmmm, I think so, just not 100%. When I lived in Bristol it was also only allowed to park on a certain side of the street on certain days, and always only on the same side you were driving on.

Good idea, actually.

spacetweek

BnA wrote:

According to him, this is illegal in Canada and the US. i.e. You can only park on the same side of the street that you can drive on.

Is this true ?

Yes, it's also illegal in Australia. It makes perfect sense - stops people doing u-eys into oncoming traffic.

Gandhi

BnA wrote:

According to him, this is illegal in Canada and the US. i.e. You can only park on the same side of the street that you can drive on.

Is this true ?

The law (in Philly at least) says if the street has a line down the middle then you can't park on "the wrong side". In practice this would mean any major road, and streets through business districts. The only streets you can park "the wrong way" on are quiet, residential streets, that don't justify a line down the middle.

spacetweek

Wishbone Ash wrote:

The weird thing was that, in Sweden, private cars always had the steering wheel on the left enen when they drove on the left.

If it happened here, it would make crossing the border interesting. :eek:

No they didn't, they used RHD models like ourselves. However, for several years before the change, all new cars sold had to be LHD so as to prepare. There would have been a few years then where if you bought a new car, the steering wheel would have been on the wrong side, but after the changeover you'd have the correct one and everyone else's car would be wrong. :rolleyes:

The changeover, though complex, was probably way easier back in the 60s then it would be now - I doubt there were many motorways in Sweden back then, if any, so it would mainly have been a case of moving all the road signs over to the other side of the road.

It certainly would make crossing the border interesting - since you don't have to stop for customs here, we'd have to have the N1 between Dundalk and Newry incorporate a traffic switchover where your side of the highway went up on a bridge and then over to the other side. I've never actually seen one of these in practice, though they do exist. I've crossed borders before where you had to change sides, but in each case both were developing countries and you had to stop for customs and transfer to another vehicle anyway, so it wasn't an issue. You just walked across and got into another vehicle.

All of the developed countries that drive on the left that I can think of are islands - UK, Japan, Australia, etc. There is one example I can think of of LHD and RHD mixing where one of the countries is developed - Hong Kong and mainland China. Google maps shows the crossover here.

If we changed, we'd have less Americans and Germans etc. crashing due to driving on the unfamiliar side - but this would be offset by more British people crashing. Argh!!

In other words, the whole idea is totally pointless without a similar move by the British - and they've a huge motorway network, so there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of it ever happening.

Wishbone Ash

BnA wrote:

According to him, this is illegal in Canada and the US.

It's illegal here too - it's just not enforced.

(There are hundreds of other largely unknown offences which are committed every day but the law is rarely enforced).

deman

kbannon wrote:

Didn't Jim McDaid try to change the side of the road we drive on?

Am I the only one that found that funny??

I'm in Finland. I drive on the right every day. The OP suggested it would take 4 years to convert, but it really should be done overnight as people would be running into each other all over the place :eek: :rolleyes:

Ireland has absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose by changing over. It would be silly really. There are lots of things that should be done on Irish roads to make driving easier and better but this is definitely NOT one of them. One example (that is here in Finland and not in Ireland) of improving driving is that a car can only park on the left side of the road, therefore, facing the same direction as the traffic flow. Understand?

**EDIT**
OK. Been suggested already. Do the gardai even know about this law??

Guy:Incognito

Wishbone Ash wrote:

If it happened here, it would make crossing the border interesting. :eek:

Thats an interesting one. Are there many countries that drive on the left but are border by countries that drive on the right? The countries that drive on the left that I can think of off the top of my head are islands (uk, ireland, australia, japan).

I have visions of a scalextric style crossover at the border.

Wishbone Ash

Stekelly wrote:

Thats an interesting one. Are there many countries that drive on the left but are border by countries that drive on the right? The countries that drive on the left that I can think of off the top of my head are islands (uk, ireland, australia, japan).

I have visions of a scalextric style crossover at the border.

From my post here at 10am this morning:

Wisbone Ash wrote:

There are a few countries who share land borders and do not drive on similar sides. (They tend to be poorer countries with a less developed infrastructure).

Examples:

Afganistan/Pakistan
Thailand/Burma
China/Nepal
India/China
Kenya/Ethiopia
Namibia/Angola

Alun

From http://www.brianlucas.ca/roadside ...

In Cyprus, both North and South, they drive on the left. Malcolm Roe reports that in the North, most vehicles are right-hand-drive models which arrive via Turkey (thus you have left-hand-drive vehicles driven on the left-hand side of the road). Another correspondent reports that in the South, vehicles tend to be right-hand-drive models, which are imported from England, Japan, and other countries.

EDIT: In case anyone thinks I'm talking to myself here, I was replying to a post which seems to have disappeared in the meantime regarding North/South Cyprus.

Wishbone Ash

spacetweek wrote:

No they didn't, they used RHD models like ourselves. However, for several years before the change, all new cars sold had to be LHD so as to prepare. There would have been a few years then where if you bought a new car, the steering wheel would have been on the wrong side, but after the changeover you'd have the correct one and everyone else's car would be wrong.

According to my Britannica 1968 Yearbook - "Private cars (i.e. in Sweden) always had the steering wheel on the left".

The changeover, though complex, was probably way easier back in the 60s then it would be now - I doubt there were many motorways in Sweden back then, if any, so it would mainly have been a case of moving all the road signs over to the other side of the road.

It had 100,000 miles of road and Europe's highest car density at the time.

Pherekydes

Wishbone Ash wrote:

It had 100,000 miles of road and Europe's highest car density at the time.

It's a very big country, and it's citizenry have always been wealthy. How many cars do they have, or have they had, per road mile? To me that's the real measure of car density.

Just curious.

deman

Wishbone Ash wrote:

According to my Britannica 1968 Yearbook - "Private cars (i.e. in Sweden) always had the steering wheel on the left".

That's what I always believed too. Remember, I'm in a country neighbouring Sweden and I do know a few older people that were driving in Sweden at the time of the changeover. They say that Sweden ALWAYS had LHCs even though they drove on the left.

G Luxel

Ok well thanks for all your thoughts.
A few things have come to mind since.

Sweden's cars were always left hand drive, even though they drove like us on the left. The Swedes thought it was strange for the steering wheel to be on the right hand side of the car. Checking through loads of Volvo and Saab archives from Sweden and also accessing photographs of Swedish streets in the 50s showed all cars with the steering wheel on the left. Thousands of Rootes and BMC cars exported to Sweden from the I940s upwards featured the steering wheel on the left. Only buses were right hand drive. After I967Some of these buses were exported on trial to Belfast and Scotland as all buses would now be featuring the steering wheel on the left. Citroen had to sell all their swedish market 2 cv's in Britain in I966.

It did take four years for the system to be implimented into swedish society. On September 3rd, I967 the system went into operation straight away. The policy was known as Dagen H. The implimentation of the system was even labelled on people's underwear.

Somalia at present doesnt seem to know what side of the road to drive on, given the instablity of the country. Ghana forced LHD in I972 and all the cars had to be given the treatment as well. Australia doesn't allow LHD cars on the continent so they must be converted. Gibraltar, even though an English colony, has left hand drive as standard and drives on the left.
Afghanistan has thousands of right hand drive japanese imports driving on the right. Italian lorries and Lancia cars were RHD in Italy in the 50s and 60s.
Vietnam banned the import of japanese imports in 200I as there were too many of them.... Vladivostock in Siberia is home to thousands of RHD japanese imports even though it drives on the right.

Wishbone Ash

G Luxel wrote:

Sweden's cars were always left hand drive..... .... Only buses were right hand drive

Presumably, when Sweden drove on the left, buses had to be RHD as they would have had to pick up/set down passengers on the left hand side of the road.

(Just as a matter of interest, Aircoach are forced to order their buses with an additional centre right hand side entry door as their allocated bus stop in Dublin Airport is on the right side of the arrivals road.)

Fratton Fred

G Luxel wrote:

Citroen had to sell all their swedish market 2 cv's in Britain in I966.

so I can blame the Swedes for the large number of 2CVs in Britain. Bastards:D