Canon 400d VS Nikon D80

kjt

Hello all,
I'm hoping to upgrade to a better camera in the comming weeks
and was hoping you's could throw a bit of advice my way. I'm
planning on spending around €800-1,000 on a good camera and
basic lense. I've looked at a few reviews on both of the above
camera's and the both come out tops up but it looks like the D80
just about tops the 400D. Although given the price difference of
around €200, that could be used on a better lense/s.


I'm also half looking at the Canon 30D but is it worth that extra few hundred euro?
What do you think is the better all around camera?
AND Is their any other camera out there worth a look in?


Thanks in advance for any help / pointers

Dundhoone

oh good god. another nikon vs canon thread.:rolleyes:

I think you should stick with either canon or nikon.
You should hold them both an see which you like best. Some people prefer the build quality of nikon, some like where the canon has its buttons.

Any of the three you have picked you are going to be buying the capacity to take great photos. Its said that at the moment, cameras change model about every 18months. These 3 are all brand new, as im sure you are aware.

Just about everyone here will probably tell yo to spend you money on lenses, but then again, lots on here bought 350s or d70's to start off and ended up trading up to to 20d's or 30'ds or D200's once they knew they liked the hobby!

Good luck with the shopping, its lots of fun!

kjt

Thanks for the reply Dundhoone. Yea sorry about the nixon vs canon thread
again, I've noticed a lot of them lately.
Looking at this , I dunno but maybe I'm just not seeing what the 30D now holds
over these new fella's to justify €2/300 extra. Maybe somebody that's tried
both would be able to tell me?


Thanks

Fajitas!

Do you have any mates with either camera? You could always see if your comfortable with theirs.

If not, pop into a camera shop and play about with them. Personally, I'd be going for the 400, but I do like Canon, and both get great reviews.

Roen

There's probably not much to divide them so it'll come down to handling, see which feels best in your hands.

B0rG

Hmm... we only do "righteous canon people blow to bits nikkon paegans" show on fridays

But if you want my advice - go for 30D, I lost about 800 or so upgrading from 350 recently... Should have gone for 30D from the start...

the major issue with both 350 and D80 is the small camera size and small viewfinder size. 30D is bigger, of course not as big as in 5D but considering the price it's big.

Dundhoone

B0rG wrote:

Hmm... we only do "righteous canon people blow to bits nikkon paegans" show on fridays

But if you want my advice - go for 30D, I lost about 800 or so upgrading from 350 recently... Should have gone for 30D from the start...

the major issue with both 350 and D80 is the small camera size and small viewfinder size. 30D is bigger, of course not as big as in 5D but considering the price it's big.

All 3 cameras have a 2.5" lcd.

The D80 is a bigger camera/bigger grip area than the 350/400. I've held a 400, I didnt like the feel of it either but I'd say they tried to improve the grip size issue that the 350 had.

B0rG

you don't really need that lcd - it's only good to watch histograms anyway, you can't see if you hit the focus or not...

PaulieC

If you have no brand loyalties (i.e. lenses) I would go for the Nikon. The 400D is way too small for normal sized hands. The Nikon is a more professional feeling piece of kit, close to the 30D than the 400D.

I own canon by the way...

melekalikimaka

cambo_gueno wrote:

If you have no brand loyalties (i.e. lenses) I would go for the Nikon. The 400D is way too small for normal sized hands. The Nikon is a more professional feeling piece of kit, close to the 30D than the 400D.

I own canon by the way...

<passes brown envelope >


when it comes down to it, its what ya like, they both have their unique abilities, pictures will not be the same on both, they have their own colours, sharpness etc, try both a choose. either way you'll be happy

PaulieC

and you're not really comparing like with like. A D50 is not as good as a 400D, which is not as good as a D80, which in turn is not as good as a 30D, which is not as good as a D200 etc...

Canon and Nikon don't have DSLRs that compete head-to-head...customer wins as there's a great range of options

TempestSabre

I went for a D70s myself, because not only did I prefer the handling of the Nikon, I also preferred the feel of the Nikon 18-70mm kits lense over the stock lense with the D50 and the D350/400. I would have gone with the D80 and the 18-135 but it was simply too expensive for the budget I'd set myself, the truth is I don't need it. Include in your budget decent bag and memory card.

bp_me

The d80 is available with the same 18-70 the d70s is supplied with if you want it. 100 euro less than the 18-135.

TempestSabre

bp_me wrote:

The d80 is available with the same 18-70 the d70s is supplied with if you want it. 100 euro less than the 18-135.

Even with the 18-70, is it not still a good bit dearer than the D70s or the D400?

Biker.ie

Apart from frame rate there's very little difference between the D80 and D200. On that basis, the D200's replacement should be a cracker, on a par with the current D2Xs even. Aftermarket lenses (such as Sigma) tend to be more compatible on Nikon bodies as seemingly Canon refuse to share AI software with 3rd party lens manufacturers.

Test results can vary etc. but the ISO800 results from this review swung it for me ;
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/NikonD80/page4c.shtml

bp_me

TempestSabre wrote:

Even with the 18-70, is it not still a good bit dearer than the D70s or the D400?

Yes. Simply pointing out that it was available as you said you didnt need the 18-135 (as well as the cost difference)

kjt

Thanks for all the replies. I'll pop into Gunns tomorrow
ask to have a look at the camera's.

Just wondering, is the Canon 30D that much superior
to both the 400D and the D80?


Thanks

TempestSabre

bp_me wrote:

Yes. Simply pointing out that it was available as you said you didnt need the 18-135 (as well as the cost difference)

Ah... I actually meant I didn't need the extra features of the D80, the lense I would have liked. To be honest the D50 would have done but I got a deal on the D70s. I'd set myself a budget of less than 1K including everything and was keen to stick to that.

D80 vs 30D I'd be out of my depth to compare them. The Canon 30D is nicer to hold than the 400D, thats all I noticed.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=19520339
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=19552322

Roen

kjt wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. I'll pop into Gunns tomorrow
ask to have a look at the camera's.

Just wondering, is the Canon 30D that much superior
to both the 400D and the D80?

Thanks

It's a case of horses for courses, if I was to buy new right now, I'd go for the 30D as I need the higher fps, I don't know enough about the D80 to make a call on it, all I know is that it's a good camera.

B0rG

kjt wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. I'll pop into Gunns tomorrow
ask to have a look at the camera's.

Just wondering, is the Canon 30D that much superior
to both the 400D and the D80?

yes.
depends who you are of course. if you're girl with a small bag then ixus will be better idea. if you're guy with normal guy's hands 30D is good. I just came back from 3 hours shooting in RDS, and let me tell ye - camera handling IS important...

But anyways - shop around, see what's on internet, even with taxes getting it from B&H is cheaper. And my last tax bill from them was actually bigger than ticket to NY itself...

Entry level nikkons better to hold, but the functionality and megapixels are a bit limited.

kjt

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm gonna have a look around in town tomorrow and then order from HK in a few wks.

B0rG, did you get any good pics? Oh... did you get to play the wii?

el capitaine

B0rG wrote:

yes.
depends who you are of course. if you're girl with a small bag then ixus will be better idea. if you're guy with normal guy's hands 30D is good. I just came back from 3 hours shooting in RDS, and let me tell ye - camera handling IS important...

But anyways - shop around, see what's on internet, even with taxes getting it from B&H is cheaper. And my last tax bill from them was actually bigger than ticket to NY itself...

Entry level nikkons better to hold, but the functionality and megapixels are a bit limited.

Oh for heavens sake, only buy abroad if you're going for the canon. pixmania is €1300 for D80 with 18-135mm lens. Gunns is €1295.00. Buy from Gunns. Best and nicest shop in the world!

B0rG

going trough them atm, most of them is ****e, given that it was my first time shooting under very complex light. exuses, exuses. Though a couple of things were interesting to try - shooting cars on stand (flash, no flash), fashion shooting (they have some fashion show there as well), some of the poker shoots came out right, but that's due to the blondie girl from holland... They sure know how to make women in holland...

However given the quality of equipment I think I've got about 10% out of 300 shots that can be used on web or on print which is good enuff for me at this stage.

B0rG

el capitaine wrote:

Oh for heavens sake, only buy abroad if you're going for the canon. pixmania is €1300 for D80 with 18-135mm lens. Gunns is €1295.00. Buy from Gunns. Best and nicest shop in the world!

I take it you're new here, cause you're arguing with the b0rg...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=457255&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

kjt

Twas a good experience anyways, I'm sure you learnt plenty
on the lighting.Damn I'm so confused about the camera's D80
400D 30D.I do think the 30D would be far too over budget;
the D80 would be better possible with a more pricey lense, but
I'm also inclined towards canon for some reason. A coin toss you say?

B0rG

kjt,
basically, sit down and think.
think how serious you are about your fotography. Think how big is your budget is for your fotography and everything else.
If you feel serious and want your camera now, go for 30D. if you don't want it now wait untill feb, there is a good chance canon will release 40D (though it's still a big rumor - they either release 40D or another version of 1D). if it's 40D then 30D prices will drop.

if you're tight with money, go for nikkon, they have decent entry level kit which will pretty much cover your focus range needs for a good while (something with 135).

As for everything else, both companies have good range of lenses.

You can still sell it after a while...

My personal advice - go for 30D. At least you don't have to change camera for goood feeeew years, plus they don't depreciate that fast. And it's a good camera.

However if you're occasional house and holiday snapper then entry level nikkon kit is the best for it's handling and not too expensive lenses.

Dundhoone

I honestly dont think the 30d has all that much over the other two , apart from the 5fps as pointed out by Roen. Keep the cash for all the other goodies you know you'll want to buy.

Borg, hes not considering the entry level Nikon kit, thats the D50!

B0rG

ah ok then... well I'm tired, drunk and tired again.

here's oversharped photos from toys4boys, as business likes oversharp

http://picasaweb.google.com/peterpan256/Toys4boys

kjt

Hey B0rg, did you play Poke-Her at the rds ?

Thanks again, think I might go with the D80. Shall have a luk
around Gunns as their a great shop and always an honest help.

blastman

Thanks for this thread guys, some useful advice here. I'm leaning towards a D80 myself now.

Fionn

I suppose when comparing cameras you need to consider best in class/price range otherwise your conclusions could result being a bit unbalanced.

However one thing to note is, whichever brand you go for (at least in my experience) you'll find yourself locked into that brand's system re: lens and other accessories. I wish these were more compatible among the different brands, course this'll never happen - too bad!

anyway
best of luck whichever you choose

digitalage

Their is one feature on the D80 which is very useful, multiple exposures up to 3 exposures on the on the same shot, no canon digital camera has this feature yet and as people have said not much to choose between this would be a big factor for me. I know you can do this in photoshop, but having inside the camera can save alot of time.

B0rG

digitalage wrote:

Their is one feature on the D80 which is very useful, multiple exposures up to 3 exposures on the on the same shot, no canon digital camera has this feature yet and as people have said not much to choose between this would be a big factor for me. I know you can do this in photoshop, but having inside the camera can save alot of time.

WHAT? HDR inside the camera?
you're joking right?

digitalage

Not HDR, but upto 3 exposures on the one shot, handy for instance using a wide angle lens to capture landscape with the moon but the moon will apear tiny because of the wide angle lens, but if you use a telephoto to increase the size of the moon and place inside the shot properly saves you alot off time in photoshop, was popular in film photography.

Roen

Yeah, my old T90 could expose up to 9 images on the one frame. I'm amazed that most digi slrs don't do it.

B0rG

digitalage wrote:

Not HDR, but upto 3 exposures on the one shot, handy for instance using a wide angle lens to capture landscape with the moon but the moon will apear tiny because of the wide angle lens, but if you use a telephoto to increase the size of the moon and place inside the shot properly saves you alot off time in photoshop, was popular in film photography.

I believe this is called exposure bracketing and it's been on every dslr since early film days...

Oracle

I was just about to ask for opinions on the Canon EOS 400D, because it's on sale in PC World for €800 (reduced by €300). I've read all the comments so far, Canon vs. Nikon, but is this a good price for the Canon?

Roen

B0rG wrote:

I believe this is called exposure bracketing and it's been on every dslr since early film days...

It's a bit different from exposure bracketing, that takes three or five shots of varying + - exposure on three or five negatives (or files). This feature exposes three times onto the one file or neg, so you have a few pics on one, kind of ghost images if you know what I mean.
A lá



It can be done easily with PS these days but back in film days the only way to get effects like this was to expose the same piece of film twice or more, of course you had to factor in your metering adjustments or you'd end up with a massively overexposed neg.

B0rG

Oh... That's one very important feature on which to base your decision to buy digital camera... no doubt...

digitalage

Borg to me it would be important, as you did'nt understand what it was in the first place makes no odds to yourself

B0rG

don't blame other people for your failure to explain

Dundhoone

B0rG wrote:

Oh... That's one very important feature on which to base your decision to buy digital camera... no doubt...

cmon now folks , we've been giving some useful info on this thread, no need to let it go to ****e now.

Borg, in fairness digitalage did state twice that it was 3 exposures from one shot. Yes it is a gimmick, but could be very useful to somebody who got used to using it. Its probably not something somoeone would by their first digital camear for , but who knows?

That said, the canon 400d also has its gimmicks, the anti dust cleaning thingt being one useful gaget that springs to mind.

TempestSabre

Oracle wrote:

I was just about to ask for opinions on the Canon EOS 400D, because it's on sale in PC World for €800 (reduced by €300). I've read all the comments so far, Canon vs. Nikon, but is this a good price for the Canon?

http://www.komplett.ie/k/kc.asp?bn=10480

No its just making it the same price as the web. The camera shops are still asking for about €849 -899. But personally I wouldn't give PC World my business.

Borderfox

I thought the 30D would be a better camera Vs the Nikon D80? They always used the D70s Vs the 30D?

kjt

I dropped into Gunns there on Friday and they advised me to go with
the 30D. I shall take me a bit longer to save up for it but I think it
would be the best in the end. So a few more months and I'll get that
and at least I'll have a good bit of time to figure out what lense to get
with it too.


Thanks for all the help everybody

halenger

Well they would like more money in fairness.

I don't think you've actually covered this in the thread, what are you upgrading from and what do you plan on using the camera for (vague, I know, but try)?

Also, someone commented on small viewfinder on the D80, wrong. That's one of the big changes from the D70(s), it has a much larger viewfinder.

At the end of the day, they'll all take great photos and you should be more than happy with any of them.

If you're upgrading from P&S I'd verge more on the D50 (yes, I own one), body only with a nice third party lens (something nice and fast). The current price is wonderful and they're being replaced by the lower spec D40 from everything I've read. If you really feel you'll need 10MP then that's your choice (I don't know yet if you really need any other features of the other bodies). 6MP has been more than enough for me to print 30x20" posters.

Finally...er... oh yes. The multiple shots on one frame thing. While it may be a nice new feature to some, something similar is easily doable with a proper flash. Some (SB-800 for example) support it directly. Dark room, long exposure (10 seconds I think I used, to give me time to move) and then strobe the flash (manually fire it in my case).

Thus ends my random interjection into boards.ie for this evening, enjoy your new camera.

kjt

halenger wrote:

Well they would like more money in fairness.

Funny you say that, they know me by name in there and I was actually advised to buy from Asia. They know I would love to give them the business but they really cant compete with those type of prices. I will more than likely be buying lenses from them if theirs not a huge difference.

I have a canon powershot s2. Quite a basic camera but it got me into photography and I have proven to myself that I want to carry on and get better. My friend gave me a lend of his D50 for the weekend and I've been playing around with that. I've just got a puppy and damn it's hard to get pics of him when he's running, it's tough to focus when he keeps jumping in different directions and all.

I'll mostly be shooting landscapes/nature photo's and action/extreme sports (not motosports, kayaking rockclimbing and the like). I know their really on different ends but these are the subjects I'm interested in, Oh and not to forget Macro's. So that's what I most like to shoot summed up quickly.

halenger

The first comment was just a throwaway, a ':p' might've suited better. I've never been in to Gunn's (not the right area for me) but I have heard good things (and have come to absolutely loathe every other camera shop in Dublin - the big ones anyway).

Sounds more like you need faster glass so you can get some faster shutter speeds, more than you have a major need for faster FPS or massive amounts of megapixels. Throw the camera into continuous focus, drive mode and fire away. If you want new tech because it's new etc then fire away. That's personal preference - that said, people do seem to be constantly mumbling about a 40D (to replace to 30D, yes already) but I don't follow that much so I've no idea.

It's really up to yourself and what you want to spend. I know I have a tendancy to pimp the D50 because I've just had such a wonderful time with it. It has gotten me way more into this than I had ever anticipated.

kjt

Yea I've seen that said a bit Pádraic. It will probably be at least a month/2 now untill I get enough $$ for the camera but if the 40D was to come along soon it would be nice to think the 30D would go down a bit in price. If that was the case I'd probably wait an extra month or more depending on how much people were expecting it to go down. The D50 is a very nice camera, it was fun to play with for the last two days.

run_Forrest_run

I have recently been in the same position as yourself. I was looking at the 30D, 400D and the D80. I held all three and played around with them in the shop. Straight away I did not like the 400D...it was just too small to hold. In the end I went for the D80 over the 30D. They both felt great to hold, however the Nikon Kit lens (DX18-135) is better than the Canon jam jar kit lens and the few hundred price diference meant I preferred the D80! They are both very similar in features and so far I am delighted with my purchase.

Try them out and go for what feels best to you (and what suits your budget of course).