€3000 on a new rig

Pauleeeeeeee

Ok boys and girls it's time for me to build/buy a new computer.

First things first, I've got €3000 to spend maximum.
Second of all this machine will be primarily used for 3d Modelling.
Third of all, it needs to be very quiet because I'll be sleeping beside this baby.

Now, I've been chatting away on another forum specifically aimed at 3d artists about what I should and shouldn't be getting but I also thought it would be a good idea to talk to people from the same country.

Here's what I'm thinking so far:

Intel core duo e6600 - € 330.02
Asus P5B DLX/WIFI-AP, P965, Socket-775, ATX, SATAII, Firewire, PCI-Ex16 - €212.00
Antec Performance One P180 case €139.00
Crucial DDR2 PC5300 2048MB CL5 € 270.00
Gainward GeForce 7950GT 256MB € 275.00
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 - hard drive - 320 GB - SATA-300 - €105


Monitor wise I know I'm going to be going for a dual screen setup. What brand, model and sizes I'm not sure of yet. One thing that I have been thinking about though is buying the monitors second hand because they seem like they are by far that they would be the least risky piece of hardware to buy second hand. Plus I've seen some great deals for monitors here and there from reliable looking sellers on ebay.

I was also told that the p150 antec case is quieter by design than the P180, and a bit smaller while still being very nice to work in.

Also, I've never had a low gig hard drive with a 10,000 rpm spec specifically for my OS. I've seen a few people doing that. Do people generally really see a nicer level of stability and speed when they do this?

L31mr0d

If you are doing a lot of 3D modelling and not playing games why not get a Nvidia Quadro FX card?

Also using a dedicated drive for the OS and a seperate drive for your files will ease fragmentation and will also stop the OS from slowing down over time. If you don't want to buy multiple drives you can just partition one, and have the OS on one partition and your files on another.

Another reason to have your OS on a 10k rpm drive is access time. In most systems nowadays the HDD is the biggest bottleneck, you can alleviate this a little by 1. Setting up a RAID 0 with some S/P ATA HDDs 2. Using a 10k+ HDDs 3. Setting up a RAID 0 with some 10k+ HDDs

The latter being the best option for speed although it is the least safe as even though there is an R in RAID, it offers no redundancy, your best option would be to set up a RAID 1 across some 10k+ drives, which will give you greater read speeds, the access times of 10k+ drives and a redundant backup drive. Look into RAID on wiki if you don't understand.

8T8

Quadro's generally cost an arm & a leg though you can source second hand ones on eBay at a cheaper price, are you going to be using the CPU for rendering or the GPU or a mix of both ?

Either way with 3K to indulge on you could get more powerful parts than that at least. Though the sound impact of course could be a factor but with that sort of cash you can splash out (forgive the pun) on exotic quiet cooling.

First up CPU get an E6700 instead of an E6600 if you can afford it.

For CPU cooling get a Zalman RESERATOR2 no fan no noise. Depending on the graphics cards you can also add the GPU into the chain.

Get this XFX card instead if you don't want to make use of the water cooling of the GPU it's still a 7950GT but with a passive cooler so no fan no noise.

If you have any hard drives going in the 5.25 bay these are great for stopping vibrations.

As for the remaining source of noise which is likely to be the PSU well QuietPC stock a variety of fan less units but on Komplett anything from Seasonic & Tagan are well regarded, I usually use Tagan and they are very quiet in operation. For your system you should only need a 400W or thereabouts unit.

Oh yeah for cases check out the Akasa Eclipse-62 I've started using these, very roomy great for workstations the case itself is actually a server case Akasa decided to re-brand as it is popular with modders due to it's size.

Pauleeeeeeee

Thanks Lads.

8T8, about getting a E6700 over a E6600. As far as I can see the only difference between the two is the small increase in clock speed. Do you really think it's worth the extra €200?

Also, I actually only recently bought a tagan TG480 U01 http://www.dealtime.co.uk/xPO-Tagan...sper_quiet_21db which I find nice and quiet. Should that do me for my new build?

8T8

May as well as your not going to be overclocking so get the best you can get, check out these benchmarks.

The 480W Tagan will do the job very well.

Stephen

If you're getting 10k rpm drives (raptors etc), be prepared for some noise!

Pauleeeeeeee

Ok well the 10,000 rpm hard drive is out the window so...

Paul needs his silence.

Anti

Just buy a dell and save yourself the hassle, If you want pure processing power get a new 3150 XEON. Clocked at 3ghz per core.

I would not reccomend a dell usually, but the added warrenty does come in handy.

Pauleeeeeeee

I've actually looked at one or two computers from dell but they just seem so exspensive for what I'm actually getting.

Also, I thought the generall consensus at the moment was that Core 2 Duo was the way to go, not xeon?

8T8

Don't bother with the Xeon's the latest Xeon's are just modified Core 2's with more cache (see this) and you would be paying a hell of a lot more money for one vs a Core 2 which would deliver near enough the same performance (link).

The Xeon only becomes useful if you are going to be running multiple CPU's sockets from a single motherboard and will be primarily doing software rendering I would assume. Even then the new quad core Core 2's would probably work out cheaper and more cost effective.

plummer

Hi Pauleeee, I have just finished my build for this year and had similar requirements to your good self. The following is the end result:

Intel core duo E6600
Asus P5W DLX/WIFI-AP
2Gb Crucial PC6400 2048MB CL4
74 Gb WD Raptor
320 Gb WD Res drive(better warrenty, uptime)
ATI 1900GT HIS model with quite cooler
ATI 1300, saphire, passive
Antec P180 tower
Seasonic S12 Power supply
Zalman CPU cooler

Already had a dual 17" moniter setup so added a Dell 2407 to the mix to creat a triple-head display, much better as now i can concentrate on the center monitor for work, instead of looking at the gap between dual-monitors.


As for noise levels, it's not quite silent but near enough it makes no difference, still have the stock antec fans in the case which you can hear, but their contant and quite, the raptor does create some noise when seeking but nothing worrying about.

DOTA_POWA

I have a core 2 duo e6600 for sale for 300 euros. You save a little vs komplett.
Just reply in the thread in adverts if you are interested.

MeatProduct

Paul, what modelling software are you using? Cinema 4D gets almost no benefit from quadros, it does just as well with consumer gamer cards. I'm upgrading soon too, building a render machine and upgrading my modelling machine.

Nick

Pauleeeeeeee

Hey MeatProduct,

I use 3Dsmax and Zbrush mostly.

After getting the opinions of one or two other people I think I'm gonna go for the
7900GTO card http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/7900_Series.html

It's the last one on that page.

duleekboy

My apologies to the OP for taking this off thread

I have a core 2 duo e6600 for sale for 300 euros. You save a little vs komplett.
Just reply in the thread in adverts if you are interested.

@DOTA_POWA

I dont believe such blatant touting of your kit in this forum is anyway constructive

do you have any worthwhile advise to offer the OP?

i have followed your adverts with much amusement over the last month or so but now it only irritates me your constant bumping coupled with your refusal to budge/negotiate anyway on price are not amusing anymore and now i find you resorting to this

if you are so anxious to sell the processor why dont drop your price a little as you have received many reasonable offers close to the 280 price you set considering the fact that item is secondhand now and that buyer will have to revert to you if any problems emerge with the unit (for RMA purposes) and to buy new will cost a little more but would give you a lot more peace of mind

apologies again to all

Pauleeeeeeee

duleekboy wrote:

My apologies to the OP for taking this off thread

I'll let you away with it

So what's the opinion on the 7900GTO card?

MeatProduct

Paul, I'm holding off on my upgrades for at least another week as the Geforce 8800 GTX and GTS are almost available (the GTX's actually listed on Komplett) and AMD's 4x4 platform is scheduled for release either on the 14th or later this month. That's a lot of activity and I bet you'd get a better deal once the dust settles.

If I was you I'd even consider getting the AMD 4x4 depending on how much time you spend rendering. If you want to save some money you could get a second hand 6800 Ultra (make sure it's a G40 chip and not 41 or 42) and softmod it to a quadro, that will perform well in 3D max. I'm not sure there's a big difference between a quadro'd 6800 and a standard unmodded 7800 (since you can't softmod them) for 3D Max but I could well stand to be corrected on that.

I think a good way to get the balance right is to work out how much time you waste waiting for renders to finish. Is that more or less time you waste waiting for your model to refresh on screen (in total of course). If rendering is the weak spot go with the AMD 4x4 (or Intels QX6700) and a modded 6800. If modelling is the main issue get a E6600 and an 8800GTX.

Base your memory requirements on you model sizes. Check on your current rig how much memory your most complex scene eats up both when modelling and when rendering.

Looking forward to hearing what you get

Nick

Pauleeeeeeee

I have actually been reading about the new Geforce 8800 GTX cards and was more than likely gonna wait another while ike you suggested.

As I mainly do character modelling and such and not animation I guess rendering time isn't paramount but who knows what kind of stuff I may get interested in soon

One of my main concerns right now is with monitors.
I was really looking forward to having a dual screen setup but I think maybe the best option for me right now would be to get a real nice widescreen instead of just two just OK monitors.

MeatProduct

I agree with your thinking on the monitor setup. My experience is that one large single monitor is better geared towards 3D work. You could consider the Dell widescreens, very good offers available on the 20.1" and 24" at the moment. Take it from me Paul, multi-monitor setup is not an advantage for this kind of work. I've been using the Dell 20.1" widescreen for the past 2 years and it's perfect for what I do.

Sounds like the E6600 and the 8800GTX is the way to go for you then. Are you paying VAT on your purchases? If not you should get 4GB RAM to cover yourself a bit. For 3000 ex VAT you could do very nicely indeed.



Nick

Pauleeeeeeee

I wish I was able to swindle my way around VAT but I don't think I can since I don't actually do CG for a living YET.

Soon though....soon....

Pauleeeeeeee

intel core duo e6600 - € 330.02
Asus P5B DLX/WIFI-AP, P965, Socket-775, ATX, 2xGbLAN, SATAII, Firewire, PCI-Ex16 - €212.00 - http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=321779
Antec Performance One P180 case €139.00 - http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=311800
Corsair TWIN2X 5400 DDR2, 2048MB PC5400 € 288.00 - http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=312023
XFX GeForce 8800GTX 768MB GDDR3, PCI-Express, 2xDVI/HDTV/HDCP, 384-bit €679.00 - http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=327330
dell 24 inch widescreen €827.94 - http://dellware.euro.dell.com/dells...b=Die_200-38595
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM € 105.02 - http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=320709

Sony Floppy Drive, 3,5" €9.99
Zalman CNPS7700-Cu CPU cooler € 50.00 - http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=306456

So that comes to a total of €2620.73 for now.

As for DVD burned and Power supply I was thinking of just using the ones I have currently as I'm fairly happy with them.

I have a Lite on 16x DVD RW which I've had no problems with. Power supply wise I'm using a Tagan 480W - http://www.pc-cooling.de/de/Low-Nois...+480+Watt.html
Will it be powerful enough to handle my new system though?


I still have about €500 to mess around with considering all that.
As I think I've said before, I want a very quiet PC. I know that my Tagan PSU is very quiet and I've read good things about the noise level of Seagate Barracudas. So it all comes down to how well the Zalman CNPS7700-Cu CPU cooler handles things in the noise deparment, how loud the case fans on thr p180 are and most importantly, exactly how loud XFX GeForce 8800GTX will be.

Any thoughts?

5uspect

quick thing does that crucial memory include import duty because you will get stung!

feylya

Sorry for the OT but where are you getting the 24" dell from for so cheap?

MeatProduct

That looks good to me Paul, great that your PSU has two PCI-Express power connectors, saves you getting a new one for the 8800. I'd say you are covered for your power requirements nicely.

I'll be getting something very similar to yours from Komplett, just different motherboard, cooler and 4GB RAM.

When do you think you'll order?

Nick

Edit: Paul, you might be better off to go with 5400 RAM instead of 5300 since it overclocks better incase you ever want to do that. Not a major price difference.

Pauleeeeeeee

feylya wrote:

Sorry for the OT but where are you getting the 24" dell from for so cheap?

Actually, thanks for the off topic. The reason it's so cheap is because I forgot to add on the vat so it's actually EUR 827.94

feylya

Even still, I can only find it for over a grand

Pauleeeeeeee

*double post*

Pauleeeeeeee

Strange, it's on dells website...

http://dellware.euro.dell.com/dellstore/basket/main.asp?s=iepad&l=en&m=eur&c=ie6198&n=&cu=iepad&v=d&cc=&ogn=&kcd=&ad=&mc=&rs=&cuid=&cg=&pch=1&demo=&gc=&sbc=none&co=

There ya go

Pauleeeeeeee

MeatProduct wrote:

Paul, you might be better off to go with 5400 RAM instead of 5300 since it overclocks better incase you ever want to do that. Not a major price difference.

Good spot mate. I shall go for the 5400 Ram so. http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=312023

feylya

http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ie&l=en&s=dhs&cs=iedhs1&sku=59234

It's a grand according to that. Are you getting a business package or something?

MeatProduct

Feylya, it's in the "Large Business" category. Nice find Paul, I'll order that too Hopefully that price is available to "Not Large Businesses".

Nick

Pauleeeeeeee

Oh, and I'll be ordering it when they get half of the stuff back into stock, Meatproduct

feylya

Ah cool. Cheers Meat

Pauleeeeeeee

Thank god for uncles with large businesses who are willing to make these little purchases on my behalf (I hope)

MeatProduct

You gonna order it too Feylya?

Paul, I hope the 8800's don't take as long as the QX6700 is taking, still got a lead time of 20 days It's be great to see some examples of your 3D work at some stage if you wouldn't mind?

Nick

MeatProduct

Pauleeeeeeee wrote:

Thank god for uncles with large businesses who are willing to make these little purchases on my behalf (I hope)

Sure if you're doing that then you won't be paying VAT! Might as well pile in a few more things now

Nick

Pauleeeeeeee

I've discussd that with him though. It's not quite as simple as not having to hand over a few hundred quid less. Basically the money he saves will be in other areas of the business later on if you get me?
It's not just an instant save on cash.

feylya

MeatProduct wrote:

You gonna order it too Feylya?

Thinking about that, the 24" Benq or a 22" Ilyama.

Pauleeeeeeee

MeatProduct wrote:

Paul, I hope the 8800's don't take as long as the QX6700 is taking, still got a lead time of 20 days It's be great to see some examples of your 3D work at some stage if you wouldn't mind?

Nick

Hopefully I'll have the bulk of a nice demo reel going by the new year, I ain't showing nothing till then though

What motherboard and cooler will you be using if you don't mind me asking?

MeatProduct

Pauleeeeeeee wrote:

I've discussd that with him though. It's not quite as simple as not having to hand over a few hundred quid less. Basically the money he saves will be in other areas of the business later on if you get me?
It's not just an instant save on cash.

But he will get it back once he does his monthly returns. I'm in the same situation. I pay the full amount including VAT but I can deduce the VAT on purchases I made against the VAT I charged my clients that I have to pay to the Revenue.

If he's a really nice uncle I think'll he'll let you off....

Nick

Pauleeeeeeee

I'll tell him the exact same thing you told me just there then and see how I get on cheers.

You do 3d yourself, Nick?

MeatProduct

Pauleeeeeeee wrote:

Hopefully I'll have the bulk of a nice demo reel going by the new year, I ain't showing nothing till then though

What motherboard and cooler will you be using if you don't mind me asking?

I'm going with
Motherboard: ABIT AW9D-MAX, I975X, Socket-775 (cause it supports quad-core, your's probably does too)
Cooler: Noctua NH-U12 and a separate silent 120mm fan (good for silence)

It's fun ordering computer stuff

Nick

Pauleeeeeeee

tell me about it, I'm gettin' all giddy.

MeatProduct

Pauleeeeeeee wrote:

I'll tell him the exact same thing you told me just there then and see how I get on cheers.

You do 3d yourself, Nick?

Ha! Great, you could get some extra RAM then if that worked out.

I do architectural visualisation, very enjoyable work except for waiting on renders (really need the upgrades). Last week I modelled a small recreation park with about 30 trees in it and it just wasn't funny what my computer thought about rendering that. So many leaves to calculate reflections and shadows on! I wanted to do 3D grass but decided not to on account of it taking forever to render.

Please pm me when you think you can show the demo reel, would love to see it.

Nick

Pauleeeeeeee

Will do, I plan on becoming a serious hermet for a while soon. There's the little matter of Christmas and a soul destroying job which I have to take care of first though.

I was talkin to a friend of mine just there regarding the VAT.

Apparently it not that my uncle can't do it it's that it can be a bit messy.

I know from the tone of his voice in the past when I came to something like this that he wasn't mad on the idea.

Pauleeeeeeee

Oh, by the way, do you have any of your work that I could look at ?

MeatProduct

Pauleeeeeeee wrote:

Oh, by the way, do you have any of your work that I could look at ?

I certainly can but I can't post it on the forum, if you could pm me your e-mail address and I can send you some stuff

Nick

DanGerMus

Regarding your tax questions. Anyone can claim the expense of the PC back, but only at the end of the year and it has to proven as a ligitimate business or job related expense. Even then you dont get all the tax back you simply get to use the amount to add to your yearly tax credits so in essence you get a percentage of the tax back. I know this cos my dad did it for a mate of mine. the thing is he doesnt get the money back til he does his tax returns and that might not be for more than a year. i think you dont have to have your 2006 returns done til oct 2007 or even 2008. anyway the point is he'll get some of it back later and in order for you to save imediatley he would have to pay out of his own pocket. now some people dont always have the cash to throw around so you have to understand that even if you think a guy can claim it back and save you money he would be doing you a REALLY BIG favour.
i am 95% sure on this. and i dont mind being corrected as long as you're not an @ss about it.
hope this is helpful

Pauleeeeeeee

Thanks happygandalf, that's what I was thinking, you just managed to form it into words though

Because of that I'm just gonna get my uncle to get the monitor from Dell for me as that'll be a saving straight away.

Pauleeeeeeee

Typical that...The 24" monitor I was gonna order from dell through my uncle's 'large business' now seems to have no discount.

challengemaster

to be honest, if i had 3k to spend on a pc, i would put in it :

Core 2 Duo e6600 - 330.02 euro
ABIT AW9D-MAX, I975X, Socket-775,SATAII, Silent Otes,2xGbLAN,DDR2,ATX, 2xPCI-Ex16 - 229.00 euro
OCZ Gold PC6400 DDR2 2048MB Dual Pack, w/two matched 1024MB PC6400 XTC DIMMs - 309.00 euro
XFX GeForce 8800GTX 768MB GDDR3, PCI-Express, 2xDVI/HDTV/HDCP, 384-bit - 679.00 euro
Zalman CNPS9500AT Ultra Quiet CPU Cooler, Socket 775 - 49.01 euro
LG DVD±RW burner, GSA-H22LRB, 18x, Dual, LightScribe, Black Retail - 46.00 euro
Thermaltake Armor Black, Aluminium Front, Super tower (Without PSU) - 150.00 euro
Enermax Galaxy 1000W EGA1000EWL ATX2.2 Modular PSU - 350 euro
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 750GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM - 395.02 euro
Logitech Media Keyboard Elite PS/2/USB - 29.00 euro
Logitech MX518 Optical Mouse, USB, PS/2 - 47.95 euro

2x Acer 19" LCD AL1916As TCO03 Monitor, Silver/Black, 700:1, 8ms - 450.00

total cost - 3018 euro.
(then again, thats just me )