Ireland V SA starting 15

Diamondmaker

15 - Girvan Dempsey (Terenure College/Leinster) 66
14 - Shane Horgan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 48
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (Blackrock College/Leinster) (capt) 67
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 23
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 9
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster) 63
9 - Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster) 69
1 - Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster) 40
2 - Rory Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 4
3 - John Hayes (Bruff/Munster) 65
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 27
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) 36
6 - Neil Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 5
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster) 30
8 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster) 14
Bench:
16 – Frankie Sheahan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 24
17 – Bryan Young (Ballymena/Ulster) 2
18 – Malcolm O'Kelly (St. Mary’s College/Leinster) 80
19 – Simon Easterby (Llaneli) 49
20 – Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster) 2
21 – Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster) 0
22 – Geordan Murphy (Leicester) 42

wont get much closer to the Munster Pack Leinster Backs carry on than this.
Like to see Boss get a run out with those backs behind and that pack in front.

thebaz

Why don't Eddie and the IRFU bend over backwards to get David Humphrys out of retirement in World Cup year -- God forbid something happens to O'Gara and Paddy Wallace is running the show .

TarfHead

What would constitute a good November for Eddie ?

3-0 ?
2-1 ?

I believe the Die Bokke are there to be taken. Their away form was muck in the 3N and have left many of their leading players at home. The Aussies have improved and may be ahead of Ireland at this point. Beating them would be a scalp. The Islanders will be tricky but they're, in effect, a scratch team and Ireland must surely beat them, even if Ireland rest some front-liners.

Diamondmaker

Beating SA with that relatively strong team, A good game against Oz with some fringe players showing well and beating the PIs with further fringe players would be good IMO.
I would like to beat Oz but not at the expense of some cover getting top level run outs!

Diamondmaker

thebaz wrote:

Why don't Eddie and the IRFU bend over backwards to get David Humphrys out of retirement in World Cup year -- God forbid something happens to O'Gara and Paddy Wallace is running the show .

I agree with that, look at Eng whne they won WC, alot of guys retired after that. Not the season just before it!! Humphs still in great form top man in ML which is showing itself to be better than its doubters as time in HC passes.
Im sure he would play out of his skin if he came on in a knockoput round, final hurrah and all!
Blooding and grooming of the replacement OH should have been done long ago. Now we are left with asking DH back or trying to get Wallace good to go in aq handfull of matches?

Tim Robbins

Diamondmaker wrote:

I agree with that, look at Eng whne they won WC, alot of guys retired after that. Not the season just before it!! Humphs still in great form top man in ML which is showing itself to be better than its doubters as time in HC passes.
Im sure he would play out of his skin if he came on in a knockoput round, final hurrah and all!
Blooding and grooming of the replacement OH should have been done long ago. Now we are left with asking DH back or trying to get Wallace good to go in aq handfull of matches?

I'd go for Boss at 9. Staunton as back up to O'Gara.

Devrozex

The three Ulster boys only have 18 caps between them, it will be interesting to see how they get on. I'd also like to see Boss be given a shot as well. Whats the reason for Hickie's exclusion by the way?

Diamondmaker

Tim Robbins wrote:

I'd go for Boss at 9. Staunton as back up to O'Gara.

Yup! thats the very 1st thing I said. its important to get Boss out there as he is definitely the guy !

"Like to see Boss get a run out with those backs behind and that pack in front."

Hickie despite being in some great form is out of favour, Trimble being an eye on the future and also in top form is not too surprising here.
Only diff is how well Hickie would slot in as above! He would slot in so well in fact that he should really be there perhaps......?

Tim Robbins

Devrozex wrote:

The three Ulster boys only have 18 caps between them, it will be interesting to see how they get on. I'd also like to see Boss be given a shot as well. Whats the reason for Hickie's exclusion by the way?

Trimble and Horgan are playing better this season.
I think the idea of a winger just being a pace merchant is old tactics now. With more and more teams fanning defenses out, wingers are tending not to rely on using their pace to take someone on outside, but instead more and more wingers are cutting back in.
Also, what's looks like being more important the pace, is the ability to finish i.e. to drive yourself over the line.
Being a winger is not just about being the fastest now.
Also, Trimble and Horgan would both be better at breaking tackles, Horgan would be better defensively, I don't know about Trimble. He's very strong there's no doubt about that, but I think he goes quite high in the tackle, and relies too much on his upper body strength. Sometimes he also mis judges his angles only slightly granted.

TarfHead

thebaz wrote:

Why don't Eddie and the IRFU bend over backwards to get David Humphrys out of retirement in World Cup year

I have heard it rumoured that a deal has been struck.
He wasn't able to commit to the International squad full-time but will be available for selection for RWC2007.

thebaz

TarfHead wrote:

I have heard it rumoured that a deal has been struck.
He wasn't able to commit to the International squad full-time but will be available for selection for RWC2007.

Excellent - We'll need everything and more to take on New Zealand, Argentina and France - come World cup time , in our horrible group of death .

Devrozex

Thats another thing. Is there any reason why we always get stuck with who is by far the best of the third seeds, Argentina? They'd be better than some of second seeds at this stage. This is the third time running they've been in our group, isn't it?

daveirl

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Erin Go Brath

It is a decent XV, but where are the foreign based players?? It seems if a player leaves the country to play in England or France, hes out of sight, out of mind. Thats my major criticism of EoS. He seems to have an aversion to giving these guys a chance. It will be interesting to see how the 2 Bests' get on though!! Glad hes given them a chance.

Diamondmaker

Erin Go Brath wrote:

It is a decent XV, but where are the foreign based players?? It seems if a player leaves the country to play in England or France, hes out of sight, out of mind. Thats my major criticism of EoS. He seems to have an aversion to giving these guys a chance. It will be interesting to see how the 2 Bests' get on though!! Glad hes given them a chance.

Who would you consider from abroad then?

zAbbo

I wouldn't take David Humph back, O'Gara is in great form, Humph is not perfect but is enjoying an Indian summer.

We've a year to build, and if that means giving Wallace / Staunton game time between now and then, so be it.

What foreign players are we referring to here ?

Anyone see much of Johnny Murphy for Leicster, looks an alright player (on the wing)

Geordan Murphy isn't get much game time at FB, he's on the wing now.

TarfHead

Erin Go Brath wrote:

It seems if a player leaves the country to play in England or France, hes out of sight, out of mind.

If a player is allowed leave, it is with Eddie's (tacit) blessing cos they have no immediate future in his 22. Geordan Murphy & Simon Easterby are the obvious exceptions but they were never contracted in Ireland. Others, such as those at Leicester or Wasps, were allowed leave cos they aren't first choice, nor, I presume, viewed as potential first choice.

madds

Erin Go Brath wrote:

It is a decent XV, but where are the foreign based players?? It seems if a player leaves the country to play in England or France, hes out of sight, out of mind. Thats my major criticism of EoS. He seems to have an aversion to giving these guys a chance. It will be interesting to see how the 2 Bests' get on though!! Glad hes given them a chance.

The Irish rugby model is the envy of the NH nations because 95% of our players play in Ireland for their provinces, with the IRFU having the power to tell the provinces when to rest players, etc. This doesn't happen in other countries, e.g. clubs own the players.

If EOS/IRFU were to start rewarding players playing overseas with caps, what do you think would happen? Of course the other Irish-based players are going to say sod this and jump on a plane to UK/France so they can increase their earnings. If that happens, the model crumbles, and the IRFU will be at the beck and call of the foreign clubs.

As it is, only the outstanding overseas players are getting a look-in (e.g. Murphy).

bazzman

just wonderin is it still possible to get tickets for the game or are they all soldout? or even better is it possible to get a student ticket terrace ticket?

Downtime

Completely sold out on both accounts

daveirl

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TarfHead

bazzman wrote:

just wonderin is it still possible to get tickets for the game or are they all soldout? or even better is it possible to get a student ticket terrace ticket?

- no such thing as a student ticket, either schoolkid or adult
- if you know a member of a rural rugby club, they may be able to get you a SA/PI double ticket (€35). I've my fingers crossed for a package from Connemara RFC to arrive in DNS by Friday.

Diamondmaker

Exactly.........The foreign based players dont get a look in cos there are better players based at home in all positions.

SA & PIs tickets were still on sale thro' Ulsterrugby.ie on Mon.....try there.

Also any one see how Munstersupporters.ie ( I think ) infiltrated the Leinster allocation of tickets for the Dec ML game? Leinster had to cancel the link and resend a diffo one when they caught wind.
Wonder how many of the Leinster tickets got snaffled by the home team in this way?! Cute Hoors!:D
Promises to be an all red affair again I bet, I got 2 at least in the Blue corner.

Diamondmaker

zabbo wrote:

I

Anyone see much of Johnny Murphy for Leicster, looks an alright player (on the wing)

Geordan Murphy isn't get much game time at FB, he's on the wing now.

I knew his sis , quite a bit of a'wight!;)
Yeah he looks the real deal competing with home based youth like Luke, Rob, B Murphy, Trimble however. He is very young and 1st team Leicster ball at that age will do him no harm. Luke of a similar age is not getting quite the same level of exposure Jonny is getting in less frequent ML games than JMs ERC and Prem.

Any one see that piece on Leicester Irish?..7/8? Players from Ire, 4 Murphys!

Erin Go Brath

madds wrote:

The Irish rugby model is the envy of the NH nations because 95% of our players play in Ireland for their provinces, with the IRFU having the power to tell the provinces when to rest players, etc. This doesn't happen in other countries, e.g. clubs own the players.

If EOS/IRFU were to start rewarding players playing overseas with caps, what do you think would happen? Of course the other Irish-based players are going to say sod this and jump on a plane to UK/France so they can increase their earnings. If that happens, the model crumbles, and the IRFU will be at the beck and call of the foreign clubs.

As it is, only the outstanding overseas players are getting a look-in (e.g. Murphy).

Yeah, I agree totally with most of your points. Its great to see stories like this one http://www.irishrugby.ie/newspage/83257.html appearing, and to be able to get to see our sporting hereos play on a weekly basis in this country. Its also a great thing that our national team consisits for the most part of these home based stars.

However with a World Cup coming up, and probably 2 brusing games a week, we need to try and blood more new players and strengthen our squad. Our strongest XV is very experienced and talented, however god forbid if something should happen to Horan, Hayes, OConnell, ODriscoll, OGara or Stringer etc Where would we be then?? We'd be f****d imo. The way to avoid over dependence on these players is try out new players. Now we still have plenty of players in the provinces who havent played for Ireland and deserve a chance, but I think it would be foolish to ignore the england and france based lads, and if they are playing well for a top team, why shouldn't they get rewarded with caps, its only fair.

daveirl

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Diamondmaker

Jeese Dave very noble of you, but you must have snook quite a few to be orrefring them like that;)

Fair game though, C'mon some Lenisnter guys take him up on that offer!

daveirl

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mikeruurds

I'd love it if the boks would win today, but Jake White has clearly stated that he's experimenting with youth and playing players out of position to find a combination that can take the RWC.

I'm no traitor btw. I'm South African .

I support Ireland in 6 nations and Munster and Leinster in the Heineken Cup though!

Mike

Chucky the tree

Not a great start.

Agent Smith

hardly a Bad score after 23 minutes!

( whats the policy with naming the score's?)

Diamondmaker

So far so good. Eddie has got the 50/50 calls right.
Trimble proving by far and away the right choice over Hickey, N .Best also looking the business and Dempsey proving solid at the back as to be expected. Everyone else turning in the performances as expected , Darce looking particularly useful.
Hard to judge Best thoiguhr with the wind.
We will see Boss in the 2nd half and hopfully some other new talent!
Drive it home boys

EdgarAllenPoo

Dennis Leamy annoys me, in almost every match I have seen him play he gives away two or three stupid penalties that others in his position wouldn't.

Diamondmaker

It baffles me why he could not puy on Boss and Wallace earlier!
Did Wallace evene touch the ball dring his cameo:mad:

Good win but nothing other than backslapping achieved.

When he did sub earlier he brought on simon and then Murphy, sure we know what they can do!:mad:

zAbbo

Just back from the game, catching up on scores (poor france )

Anyway, Trimble had a great game, and is showing himself as a good finisher and a sure starter.

SA were poor, but you can only beat whats in front of you.

I thought ROG was great today, regarding the subs, Murphy was playing on the wing (I think, he may have switched with D'Arcy)

Looking forward to next week.

Anyone got links to the tries ?

EdgarAllenPoo

A surprisingly subdued performance from Brian "I fully endorse this product and/or service, now where's my cheque" O'Driscoll. I bet he felt upstaged by Trimble.

zAbbo

Have you anything worthwhile to say ?

Clearly BOD is just in it for the money, thats why he just signed a 4 year deal to keep him in Ireland, instead of going to France to earn millions (even Tana Umaga is getting 50k a game in the French second division)

jackbhoy

GDM wrote:

A surprisingly subdued performance from Brian "I fully endorse this product and/or service, now where's my cheque" O'Driscoll. I bet he felt upstaged by Trimble.

His beautiful pass for Horgans try didnt do anything for you?? Put in a couple of great tackles too, just because he has quiet game (by his standards) we must listen to the begrudgers. Trimble has a long, long way to go before you could put him in the same league as O'Driscoll..........

Trotter

How come Barry Murphy (Munster) hasnt been mentioned? Surely he's a future possibility?

zAbbo

He's in the 'A' squad, and would need to have a seriously good season to edge his way into the squad, as both Trimble and Horgan can be deployed in the centre.

Crash

O'Driscoll hasnt played the game he could play for a long time because teams have noticed he has to be heavily marked.

as for trimble, i'm so happy that someone i've lauded since day one (I think the guy is something amazingly special) had such a fantastic game - he's quick as hell on wing but at the same time he runs such lines off o'driscoll that if we ever needed a center as cover he'd slot in no problem - the guys gonna come up fast.

I'll give a better view of the match later, but still coming down from the after match celabratory pints :P

Diamondmaker

BOD ALWAYS stands up to be counted when he is really needed. Yesteday was a day where he went out and knew he did not have to give 100% and well he didnt.
Any other player on the pitch gets away with a bad day or 2 ( even POC quite recently had a few poor game on the trot ) but BOD is expected to deliver every time.
He does it when needed, would you like to have seen him injured in an intense ruck or tackle situation in THAT game?........I think not.

Diamondmaker

BOD ALWAYS stands up to be counted when he is really needed. Yesteday was a day where he went out and knew he did not have to give 100% and well he didnt.
Any other player on the pitch gets away with a bad day or 2 ( even POC quite recently had a few poor game on the trot ) but BOD is expected to deliver every time.
He does it when needed, would you like to have seen him injured in an intense ruck or tackle situation in THAT game?........I think not.

damnyanks

Diamondmaker wrote:

BOD ALWAYS stands up to be counted when he is really needed. Yesteday was a day where he went out and knew he did not have to give 100% and well he didnt.
Any other player on the pitch gets away with a bad day or 2 ( even POC quite recently had a few poor game on the trot ) but BOD is expected to deliver every time.
He does it when needed, would you like to have seen him injured in an intense ruck or tackle situation in THAT game?........I think not.

He had a quiet game, but can't remember him making any mistakes.

zAbbo

damnyanks wrote:

He had a quiet game, but can't remember him making any mistakes.

Should have passed quicker to Trimble in the first half, before a try saving tackle was made. And he tried a dodgy no look pass in midfield in the second half, but thats nit-picking.

His backhand pass to Horgan for the last try was amazing, identical to the one against Edinburgh

zAbbo

Tries - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzpHNm6g4UA

Lovely double handoff by Leamy for the first try

daveirl

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Hippo

daveirl wrote:

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Well said Dave, the guy is so good he's a pleasure to watch, even when he's having a supposedly 'quiet' game like last saturday. First name on any teamsheet anywhere. He's worth every cent of whatever it is they're paying him.