Is Many Fighters on Performance Drugs?

Millionaire

Hi

I see on occassions the UFC fans posting on here about so and so testing postive for steriods from time to time.

As many of you know, I live in Thailand and I train in a Muay Thai camp most days, near Pattaya, and this camp attracts many foreign people who come to train and of course many lads who come to stay long term amybe 3 months to 12 months or more train full time and fight. (nice for them to have time and money to do this!!)

Anyway, I am beginning to notice some lads, who have muscled bodies, cut and in perfect shape, like you would see on the cover of Mens Health mag....real Jean Claude Van Dammne "Muscles from Brussels" look.

I asked some of them, do they pump iron, and the answer is always the same, "no, only train in Muay Thai", with a sort of F Off and mind your own business tone and look in their eye, as they turn their backs and walk off.. many are foreign.

Sometimes too..I am sort of a smiley happy guy who says hello to everyone, when you say hello to the same....you get this kind of snarly look off them... kind of like a bodybuilder "roid rage" look.... I am sure you know what I mean!!

Now I have been around MA a long time, and trained with top guys, for example Jean Yves Thierault from Canada who was a Professional Kickboxer World Champ, undefeated for 15 years. His job was training full time, (at 100K dollars a fight why not!!) and he was in great shape and not muscled up nor cut up like these guys.

Now, steriods, and Human Growth Hormone and all that sort of stuff can be go over the counter out here.

Do you think these guys are on Performance drugs, based on what I have said??

Magic Eight Ball

Who was that famous boxer who, when asked if he lifted weights, said bodybuilders lift weights, boxers just.. box!

I think you can reach a good size and ton without lifting weights.
lifting was great for my chest, and I saw a lot of results.
I was never able to put any size on my arms or forearms or calfs lifting.
My arms have incresed a full inch since starting kickboxing, and that's without any lifting, my forearms have come on great and calfs are getting a great size.
all this without any lifting.
So i could well believe a full-time thai fighter could reach what your describing.

On the other hand, ever see that doc about Mart Kerr, The Smashing Machine?
That amount of **** that guy was on was unreal.

yomchi

Millionaire wrote:

Hi

I see on occassions the UFC fans posting on here about so and so testing postive for steriods from time to time.

As many of you know, I live in Thailand and I train in a Muay Thai camp most days, near Pattaya, and this camp attracts many foreign people who come to train and of course many lads who come to stay long term amybe 3 months to 12 months or more train full time and fight. (nice for them to have time and money to do this!!)

Anyway, I am beginning to notice some lads, who have muscled bodies, cut and in perfect shape, like you would see on the cover of Mens Health mag....real Jean Claude Van Dammne "Muscles from Brussels" look.

I asked some of them, do they pump iron, and the answer is always the same, "no, only train in Muay Thai", with a sort of F Off and mind your own business tone and look in their eye, as they turn their backs and walk off.. many are foreign.

Sometimes too..I am sort of a smiley happy guy who says hello to everyone, when you say hello to the same....you get this kind of snarly look off them... kind of like a bodybuilder "roid rage" look.... I am sure you know what I mean!!

Now I have been around MA a long time, and trained with top guys, for example Jean Yves Thierault from Canada who was a Professional Kickboxer World Champ, undefeated for 15 years. His job was training full time, (at 100K dollars a fight why not!!) and he was in great shape and not muscled up nor cut up like these guys.

Now, steriods, and Human Growth Hormone and all that sort of stuff can be go over the counter out here.

Do you think these guys are on Performance drugs, based on what I have said??

Im going to go out on a limb here.. i would put money on it that they are taking something

arybvtcw0eolkf

Regards the muscled up and toned look. Steroids alone won't give you that look, and most bodybuilders are too busy with their own training regimes to bother with the stresses of a full time M.T. training camp.

Haven't a clue what your talking about in regards to the 'roid rage look'. Maybe the guys are just ass'O's (for American, lol). Even among BB'ers 'roid rage' is abit of a myth..

Here's a classic case of 'roid rage'...

http://www.stickdeath.com/roidrage.htm

Millionair I think you've just been unfortunet enough to have chanced accross a couple of wan*er's.

Btw, people at all levels of sport will try steroids or some form of chemical enhancement at some stage, fighters are no different.

Millionaire

LOL! Its funny cause I am coming on at a resonable rate with the Thai, due to daily training, and consistency, but I am not a fighter as such.

So what I mean is I probably could hold my own against the 2 or 4 "Muscles from Brussels" types, but their skills, endurance, and power etc, would be better, so they would beat me in a match, and I know this and they know this too. lets say they would be 20 -30% in a general way more skiled than me, and they all fight regular out here. So I noticed thats it ME who gets the "Evil eye", and not the begineers, nor the Thai figthers. So yeah maybe its just that its their all individual WA#KERS!

Now it is strange that a few seperate dudes, you are not together here, are all muscled and cut to perfection, but got he "roid rage" Look. any statisticians about???

Fighters from Thailand who are training daily since 6 years old, do not have this look, sure they have 6 packs, but are muscled in a lean and toned way...not like Jean Claude Van Damme in the 1980s.

Trevor, I beg to differ, i ve been around kickboxing many years and I never seen such perfect (I hate to say the word) muscled specimens, as these guys. All muscled and all ripped and 6 packed in the right places. (yeah of course I am jealous of their looks and energy before anyone brings it up)

Plus if your training thai 2 sessions a day in the heat and humidity out here, I really doubt you would have the energy nor time to lift any sort of heavy iron, needed to get this sort of look. Some fighters apart from the sit ups, and push ups and a few chin ups, might do a few real quick fast sets of light dumbells for arms and shoulders... but thats it.

These dudes look better than body builders. but if you ask them about their build...it is a "no go area"....very strange.

Like, if I see someone who is good at anything, I go over and introduce myself, compliment them and ask them what their doing to be so good, and any tips etc.

For example there was this Big USA Black Dude, training some famous Japanese k1 fighter yesterday (sorry cannot remember name, but he is up there), on boxing pads for speed hand work, and I went over btwn round and complimented the trainer, and told him, his fighter was like "music on the pads"... well this big black dude was chuffed, and took a few secs to fill me in on what he was training the K1 guy on. 90% of people are nice and will tell you if approached in a nice way.

As I said I heard everything is HGH, Steroids, DHEA, Clenbuterol, Testosterone, Melatonin is all real cheap over the counter. So i guess they have to be on something to look so good, not to mention speed and power.

Apparently some pro boxers come over there to train, as they rent the thai gyms btwn thai sessions, and also due to the availability of performance enhancing drugs. someone in the fight game told me.

Anyway I was just curious.

The worst I every done was take Creatine and some dung Brian Muscle complex I got in a Tony Quinn shop for a month, when doing weights, and I think it helped a little!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Honestly Millionair I do think you've just met up with some wan*er's.

Even using steroids, you won't just get the look you describe. Some races have better genetics than us Irish and will 'muscle up' quicker and better regardless if their chemically enhanced or not.

When I was using, I used steroids almost without break for over ten year's I had to work extremly hard to get ripped, and could only hold that for a limited period of time.

In my experience Irish guys tend to look more like rugby players than Adonisis (sp'ing?).

I know about gear being OTC in Thailand, damn you!.

But I haven't used in almost five year's now so I'm glad to be away from the temptation!.

crokester

AAS's have no effect unless you lift heavy at the same time. The guys may well have the energy to lift everyday and do two sessions of Thai if they are taking the right steroids. I cant see how just taking steroids and doing Thai could give a very muscled look, simply because the muscles that get big, type 2, arent used all that much in Thai.

Dragan

Trevor Coulahan wrote:

That amount of **** that guy was on was unreal.

Actually Kerr was running relatively light cycles of anabolics in the grand scheme of things as far as I am aware, his main problem was Nubaine and Opiates which he started on to help deal with pain but which are both massively addictive.

Now then, with regard to anabolics steroids, all they really do is help you to recover faster from what you are willing to do to yourself. I am far bigger and stronger than some guys in my gyms who are on steroids because I lift harder and more intensely. In 8 weeks time I will be a lot leaner than them as well because I am willing to put myself through my current diet.

People general confuse what steroids do…it's not a case of take steroids and be big….you need to work and you still need to work damn hard. If you go into a gym and half ass it when on steroids you really won't see that much…it's all about muscle fibre repair in the physique game and if your not tearing them down then there is nothing to build up!

The reason steroids would be of such benefit to a fighter ( lets face it, top level athletes train like beasts, for my moneys fighters more so than most ) is because he will bounce back faster from his training sessions….this will allow him to train for harder, for longer. Think of the advantage that gives?

To be honest Gerry I would not assume that because some guy looks big and is lean that he is on steroids. First of all, being big is subjective. Some people will look at a guy and think "Wow, he's huge" others will not. So the first thing is are these guys really big? The best way to figure this out is look at height and weight. I'm 6'2 and 250 pounds. I look big. However, a friend of mine is only 5'8 and about 180 and he looks far, far bigger than me from a muscularity point of view simply because he is shorter. If people were to look at me on my own and him on his own and be asked who was bigger they would choose him…simply because he looks that part, yet his physique is easily acheivable without the use of anabolics ( well, not easily, he worked like a dog for it but so can other people! )

Being ripped and muscular is not the same as being large….it just looks more impressive because of heighened definition and shape!

Also, they may be running something like Clenbuterol on a regular basis, which is a well known aid in getting cut ( it's also illegal and normally classed as a steroid ) so there leaness may not be natural but there muscle might.

The simple fact is that some people are just monsters by nature, the rest of us just have to work that little bit harder.

Millionaire

right so aside from the dirty looks...I train like fook and KO one of them in a few months. thats a good goal...I take Mairts word on roid rage, since he used them for then years.

I just cannot see how the F**K someone can get so Van Dammne like.

I think Crokester you were training over here, so you know how draining the heat is, especially if you give 110% on the pads alone. generally I work the bag more technique as I be so bolloxed from the pads.

This is what is on offer over the counter here cheap cheap ... Human Growth Hormone injected , Melatonin, DHEA, Clenbuterol (is that the Hollywood fad now?) Cetabon which is similar to Clenbuterol I think, Testosterone stuff which is injected....Viagra too! Also Ephedrine which I believe is used for a sports event e.g. a fight, and gives you a few hours extra power, with a come down after.

Now I am just name dropping this stuff as I was noseying arounf the past few days.

Does anyone know what this stuff is? in basic terms.... I find if I google I get stuff aimed at scientists which I cannot understand!

Dragan

Mairt wrote:

Haven't a clue what your talking about in regards to the 'roid rage look'. Maybe the guys are just ass'O's (for American, lol). Even among BB'ers 'roid rage' is abit of a myth..

Excellent point....the main flaw with most psych studies into peoples behaviour and temperment when on anabolics is they do very little to look at the person mental health history BEFORE they started using.

The majority of studies that do actually do this show an increase of situations of anger/rage among people who would have issues with them anyway.... this is hardly suprising considering the fact that they are basically upping there testosterone levels dramatically.

Millionaire

Dragan wrote:

The reason steroids would be of such benefit to a fighter ( lets face it, top level athletes train like beasts, for my moneys fighters more so than most ) is because he will bounce back faster from his training sessions….this will allow him to train for harder, for longer. Think of the advantage that gives?

Being ripped and muscular is not the same as being large….it just looks more impressive because of heighened definition and shape!

Also, they may be running something like Clenbuterol on a regular basis, which is a well known aid in getting cut ( it's also illegal and normally classed as a steroid ) so there leaness may not be natural but there muscle might.

Right, I think thats part of the Puzzel Dragan.....you can get Clenbuterol over here, as handy as a bag of Tayto at home!

Yeah I see now, why they might take steroids from a fighters point of view. especially with the draining heat too... you'd be rocking and rolling at training on that gear.

Since I am 6 foot and approx 90 kgs which is approx 200 lbs with a bit of flab, I would say if I got a dose of Clenbuterol, and kept up my current 5 -6 days a week training, I would be very ripped too!

Add in the Human Growth Hormone injected , Melatonin, DHEA, and Testosterone stuff, and I would be superman....if I wanted to get into the ring that is.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Millionaire wrote:

Add in the Human Growth Hormone injected , Melatonin, DHEA, and Testosterone stuff, and I would be superman....if I wanted to get into the ring that is.

TRaining and dedication maketh the fighter, not ye ol'de juice!.

Millionaire

I have n' t seen eddie irvine putting red deseal in his red ferrari yet either, anytime I saw him filling it up out dalkey way! LOL!!!!

HammerHeadGym

Hey Gerry,
How's Thailand treating you mate?
My own 2 cents on the matter is yes, i think a lot of the champs would be. I base this on certain things i have noticed from the competetive body building circuit which i have been on for years. There are several physical anomalies which crop up over and over again. Just look at Silva's wierd spots, Liddel's distended gut etc.
Of course this is just idle speculation based on my limited exposure to steroids.
I mean if that guy from TUF 1 (fought Forrest Griffin in the final, i forget his name) tested positive and can't win feck all........
Other easy tells are size vs. body fat. There is a limit to how big the body can get while maintaining a low enough body fat to be competetive. I'm sure Dragan can back me up on this. In fact I'm sure anyone who has lifted weights for any length of time, would only have to take one look at Mark Coleman to know that he's either got the genetics of a dozen silverbacks or he's got a little juice, from time to time.
Don't get me wrong though, I know a few guys (and have heard of hundreds)who's sports career was kept alive with the use of steroids. A good friend of mine, ex-boxer, irish champ back in his day, who would have to routinely inject deca into his knackered shoulder just to train some days. Did it give him an unfair advantage? Almost certainly. But it also kept him fighting and earning money.
I'm not sure if i made the point i set out to make now

Anyway, thats my angle

Dave Gordon

celt2005

Most fighters at the mid-top level are on some cocktail of steroids, training schedules are crazy (too much training) , and need steroids to recover.

Would guess Jeff Monson is on sometin, the fella is huge.

BAD MAN

I'd say there is a fair chance that these guys are using gear. At the end of the day lifting weights puts a load on muscle fibres breaking them down and when the body repairs they grow! Of course you have to add the right fuel and training regime, and if you can speed up the process with quicker recovery it will lead to quicker results. Now I have had friends who took GH and I can tell you for sure I did notice that they were much more aggressive whilst taking gear. Muay thai (or other activities which involve intense training regimes) may well stimulate the muscles in a simmilar fashion and get similar results. I'm not saying you can get a body like Arnold by taking GH and doing Muay thai but I'd stick my neck out and say it will increase your lean body mass providing you train hard and eat right. Ask a pro bodybuilder and he'll tell you it's 90% diet and 10% weights.
I'd say the guys you are training with are a combination of the above title
Roid Rage + Assholes
p.s IMHO when Mark Kerr went clean for his last pro fight he seemed to have lost his trademark aggression. Is that a coincidence or what?

JohnMc1

Millionaire wrote:

Melatonin is all real cheap over the counter. So i guess they have to be on something to look so good, not to mention speed and power.

Sorry to correct you but Melatonin is just a sleep aid. The only way it will help your physique is by helping you get a good night sleep.

HammerHeadGym

Hey,
Slighty off topic but thats the norm here...
When the human body is operating at around 90% and up of it's maximum heart rate the body produces it's own HGH.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I see alot of rubbish being posted in this thread, too much in fact for me to correct. So I'll ask, who here has personal experience of using AAS?.

Only one to post here who I agree with is Dragan, I've met the guy (Sat beside you at ROT III, using a different user name then) and believe me guys. This is a big lad, lean and muscular and no doubt doing all the right things.

Right my experience. Used for at least ten year's, mostly ran Dball/Testo/Deca cycles (breakfast of the champions some would say). During these year's I didn't compete in any M.A. competitions [nose is starting to groooooooooooow, lol].

I'm 'clean' now since 2002.

So anyone else wanna own up?.

Millionaire

well I will own up... I have done nothing...except creatine and tony quinn stuff in the past, Brain Muscle complex which was very expensive, however it was pumping the weights great full of energy, with a big smile on my face. do there must have been somthing in it. and back then I used to force myself to do weights, as i preferred cardio.

Now I do minimal weights, maybe a few wee reps on a dumbell. but i do hindu squats about 50 min in a set, 200 sit ups/crunches, and sometimes push ups or hindu pushs ups right after the Thai work. I am a bit lax on the push ups as I train with 16oz gloves in stead of bag gloves, so arms ready to fall off!

The problem is I get tired later in the day, and it effects my work. (which makes me money so I can stay here) Today wednesday I will do not Thai at all, but did a Yoga class which is intense in its own way at times, and I will do a light run or swim later.

So essentially btwn the Thai, which I really try and push hard on, 80% of the time I am on only 1 session a day at 8am, so I have to realy push intense to make best use of the time, and I try and hit with max power speed and agression. with the heat I am usually ready to fall over after an hour.

So my point is, I got a very busy time between now and xmas, and I need to get some sort of "Boost" or "Kick Start", recover better from training, get more energy, get more "bang for my buck" out of training between now and xmas.

The protein shake, lean meat, tons of veg and fruits with tons of water, and pharmaton is not working for me.

I am lucky to get 7 hours sleep a night. and the options of naps or sleeps during day in minimal.... so if that mens a shot of testo in the butt once a week, and a 6 weeks of Clen, and HGH, then thats what I may do.

Then I will knock off and have a 2 weeks rest from work and training over xmas, and nothing else for at least a month, then we will see...

I do think Dragan said months back, he was cutting back on the MA to work on the weights for a while?

A friend of mine you was a semi pro cyclist, once we went on hols to the Canaries, me him and his training buddie. They were training for the Milk Ras, and it was Feb so Canary Islands great place for them to get in some training, i was there for the partying which they did not do.

anyway, we were not checked into the hotel 5 mins, until the lads went at the speed of lighting to the pharmacy across the road. (I assumed they wanted some Deep Heat or something for sore muscles). They both same back with shopping bags full of stuff, and before I had my first beer open, they had the shorts down and were injection god knows what in their butts, and pills and all sorts. I was like "Fooking Hell"!!! Whats all this about!!!

Dragan

JohnMc1 wrote:

Sorry to correct you but Melatonin is just a sleep aid. The only way it will help your physique is by helping you get a good night sleep.

Sleep quality can make a MASSIVE difference in performance levels. I know for a fact as someone who can get insomnia the not being able to get a good nights sleep can make a massive difference. The right meal before bed and about 8 hours average sleep can make a massive difference to your recovery from day to day. As a some who trains very, very hard week in week out I make sure my sleep pattern is steady and solid. Anyone who is feeling tired, or run down or a bit slow in training should tag on an extra hours sleep a night and see what happens!!!

There are things out there like GABA, which is a natural occuring amino acid, that aids in the quality of sleep my resulting in a secretion of GH ( this is what happens after sex, and is why guys get so sleepy ) within the brain which results in drowsiness. GH is normally released during sleep anyway, and is a major factor of sleep quality and recovery.

As such, a good few people will use Melatonin to aid in better sleep.

HammerHeadGym wrote:

Other easy tells are size vs. body fat. There is a limit to how big the body can get while maintaining a low enough body fat to be competetive. I'm sure Dragan can back me up on this. In fact I'm sure anyone who has lifted weights for any length of time, would only have to take one look at Mark Coleman to know that he's either got the genetics of a dozen silverbacks or he's got a little juice, from time to time.

Indeed, one of the most serious killers of size is excessive cardio and conditioning, which we all know is an integral part of the fight game. With the smaller guys like Hughes, Franklin etc I would doubt any anabolics use as this size shape and conditioning could be achieved natural by people who were willing to work hard enough ( not saying they are not on gear, only that I would doubt it ) but when you get up to light heavy and heavyweight….then it starts to become more obvious. It is pretty damn hard to spread 240 lean pounds over a 6 foot + fram with the ammount of cardio and conditioning these guys do. Granted modern legal supplementation has done some wonderful things in the last 3 to 4 years but still. The funny thing is that no one accused Sylvia of being on gear until he failed his test….just shows that you can't always tell who is on….and also there are some guys that you think are on that are natural!!!

Mairt wrote:

Only one to post here who I agree with is Dragan, I've met the guy (Sat beside you at ROT III, using a different user name then) and believe me guys. This is a big lad, lean and muscular and no doubt doing all the right things.

Cheers mate, and thanks again for all the walk throughs of each fighter, it added a massive ammount to the night! Anyway, I have never used, at the age of 25 I am still in the range of hormonal levels that can pretty much support what I want to do, and proper training, rest and nutrition are covering the rest for me!!! It would be foolish of me to say I will never use AAS , despite my love of MA the size game is still my main passion….so in a few years I may very well end up doing something!! The temptation will no doubt be there!

I do however, whether I use, and to be honest whether anyone here uses, especially coaches etc, do a lot of research into the subject as I feel it is something that should be known. Everyone should have a pretty clear understanding of the endorcine system if they want to make the most of the training, and all AAS do is an extension of that!!!

Anyway, nice to know that I know what I am banging on about!!!

Millionaire

see there a good point Dragan is 25, I am 35 (in a few weeks), and the last 18 months I have really felt a big slow down in energy levels, plus I had the alcholism and drugs, and many years boozing will do alot of damage.

So with my training routine, which even though is only usually a morning Thai session at least 5 days a week, and I really give it my all as if I am a pro fighter too (most days), my age 35, the massive abuse of my body with booze and recent years charlie. and a busy schedule with stressful work. and a yoga session or 2 a week. you would be suprised sometimes how yoga can leae you wrecked.

I feel a little "boost" to help me get over the next 2 months is in order, then its time to stop.

Yes I got the Melatonin to help me get quality sleep as I am a bad sleeper, and sometimes would take a pill so sleep which leaves you groggy in the morning.

One I think you hit 30s GH production starts to drop off.

As I said the Pharmaton, good eating and rest, is not doing it for me right now, and there is no way in hell I am cutting back the boxing to anthing less than 5 sessions a week. (4 sessions on a very rare occassion). see the dedication to the boxing is helping me replace the booze. which is a good thing.

I have started taking a Protein shake with a banna after traning, and the same again in afternoon.

Plus I was Running too after training before I was off for a month with fever.

so I have to add that back in 30 mins every 2nd day, and 1 weekly session on full body dumbell work out. (I hate barbells!!).

Then I am off for 2 weeks at xmas, no work, no training (except a bit of walking or light run) no supplements.

Dragan

Gerry,

Without getting overly into it, as I imagine the many other people can discuss this better than me, you know yourself that you have a highly addictive personality. Be it the booze or the drugs or even MA when you go for something you seem to go for it hell for leather.

While very few AAS posess some form of compound that would make them physiologically addictive, they would be very, very psychologically addictive if you did them the "right" way and saw some great results from them. As such, it think it really is an important question that you ask yourself , are you just looking to replace one substance with another?

Obviously this is really none of my business , but I just feel that it is worth pointing out, and I would feel like I had maybe turned a blind eye on something if I did not.

FiannaGym.com

I think you might be reading into things a little deep.


Some dudes, when they are "on the mat" are just that, they don't have time for pleasantries, or hellos or any of that, just time to train hard. Afterwards they might be sound as a pound but on the mat they are just a machine.

Training like that can make you ripped. Its easy to get ripped without doing roids. I have to say that, I hate when people chalk up another persons effort to roids, eating well and training hard twice a day will make anyone ripped.

That said plenty of Pro fighters are on roids. Winstrol being the big one.

Peace

EDIT: Gotta go with Dragon on this, so many dudes say, "I'll just do another cycle" after every cycle comes up. Roids are hugely addictive because they alter your self image, partly because of the hormonal change and partly because they work. I'm sure just giving up alcohol would make a gigantic difference, it did for me.

Millionaire

Thanks for the info gentlemen...

Yes Dragan, I hear what you mean... my cousin was an piss head and did AA 5 years ago, he is off the booze still, but has replaced the booze with dope smoking. ok, with the dope he is not going to get into a fight, as he sits home and smoke....but this would not be me!

No No, I am not after a Mens Fitness cover look, with the biceps and the tight t shirt...I know exact what both you and Fianna mean. if I was I would be pumping iron 70% and 30% MA. I have read about how once some lads reach a certain size and bulk and look great, how they loose all their esteem and self confidence if they slim down..

No No... even though we discussed size and all , this is not the goal. but if I loose a bit of flab in the process, tone up a bit more, sure I would like that.
I weight 200 Ilbs which is approx 14 stone or 90 kgs at 6 foot give or take.

The goal is max energy to excel at Muay Thai as a personal goal...not even to fight. look at it like this....sometimes your hardest opponent is yourself, and I just want to become the best MA I can, and train the hardest I can, to the best of my ability....which I rate as slightly above average to middling.

As a result of me giving it my all, I am wrecked in the evening, and I find it real hard to have the high energy level needed to do the work I do, which is sales and people orientated... talking to guys about jobs and trying to call companies to get business is very draining stressful work.

So the whole angle I am coming from is to do get quicker recovery (ala some of the gear I mentioned), more energy so I can train and also do my work.

As I said I am literally on the go from 7am to 11pm or midnight Mon - Friday, between training, AA meetings and helping with AA, work on my main job, and then other things I am work on. one down side in Thailand, like ordering an internet connection or anything that is simple and easy in ireland, is a major ordeal over here, and can waste hours of your time and energy.

So if I can "supplement" something to get me the energy from now to xmas re training and work, and then no nothing for 2 weeks. and no supplements after that.

uberpixie

Millionaire wrote:

As I said I am literally on the go from 7am to 11pm or midnight Mon - Friday, between training, AA meetings and helping with AA, work on my main job, and then other things I am work on. one down side in Thailand, like ordering an internet connection or anything that is simple and easy in ireland, is a major ordeal over here, and can waste hours of your time and energy.

So if I can "supplement" something to get me the energy from now to xmas re training and work, and then no nothing for 2 weeks. and no supplements after that.

A "supplement" won't help you with your lack of energy in the long run.....

If you are tired now, what makes you think you won't be just as tired after the 2 weeks break and you go back to your old routine?

I think you need to examine the way you train and cut back for a little while, rest.

Your body is tired: running it into the ground and using "supplements" as a crutch is not a long term solution and the risks far out way the benefits.

Cut back just a little, your body is telling you to slow down for a little while.

Listen to it.

Best of luck living the dream :-)

crokester

FiannaGym.com wrote:

Training like that can make you ripped. Its easy to get ripped without doing roids.

Well it depends what your definition of ripped is Fianna;
Is it?

1)low body fat
2) high muscle
3) both

If either 2 or 3 id disagree that rolling or sparring could produce that result. It simply doesnt work the explosive, anaroebic muscles, ie the ones that big, enough. For that you need good old fashioned weights; high weight and low reps.

Dragan

Personally I would consider the term "ripped" to be purely indicitive of body fat percentage myself. As I have said many times, people mistake being "ripped" for being big.

I know plenty of guys who are pretty big, but not "ripped" , I know plenty of guys who are "ripped" but not big.

The two, for me, are separate to each other. It seems that Gerry is happy with his size, but seeks to drop bodyfat levels if he can.

FiannaGym.com

When I use the term "Ripped" I mean, low body fat on a healthy frame, so being "shredded" from being very underweight would not be the same as "ripped" which to me means in good shape.

crokester, I said "training like that" as in training seriously with the head down working hard. What kind of sparring do you do that doesnt work "explosive, anaroebic muscles"?

Anyway, when I say training twice a day and eating right will make your "ripped" I mean training twice a day, like a fighter (sorry that I assumed that) so 0-lifts, crossfit, sprints, etc and MMA sparring, drilling etc. (again I shouldnt have assumed MMA there, its just that I always talk about that like its what everyone does and everyone knows how to train right) sorry.

peace

celt2005

Uber,


The harder you train, diet / supplementation of diet become paramount.

If you are training hard, you need to supplement , as you will not get your dietary needs directly from food.

By all means, tail off your training, but training and diet are different sides of the same coin.

Millionaire

I look big ish when I am out, and fill out a tight T shirt well (oh you sexy man...as the thai gals say). I have heard people say I was a "big lad"...which I find amusing as 3 years ago I went Vegan 80% green veg for 1 months or 2 , and I dropped to 10 1/2 stone!!! and I felt like crap.... some people swear a green vegan diet gives you super energy, but I felt like a weak little weed. my 32 inch waist jeans were falling off my butt!!!! I must be a 36 now, or more, but I am in denial on that!

So I am quite happy at my 90kg 14 stone 200lbs ish...and I know the gut will go in a few months maybe 3 maybe 6, maybe longer, as long as I train consisent. I could always strike hard even when I was on the weedy vegan look, due to proper technique, but the bigger me...my power has really increased, and I feel like I could knock someone through a wall!!!!

(speaking of punching just got Geoff Thompsom Real Punching DVDs in post today hee hee).

Yes a drop in body fat levels would be excellent for me....remember i am only over 60 days off the beer, so it might take months for all that crap to work out of the body. I think my generaly healthy diet and training will help get some of the fat off.

Its just keeping the energy levels up, is the problem. yeah maybe more rest is needed. Take an hour off work, and nap for 1 hour maybe.

One thing Finanna, about training getting you ripped... i think I have about 10 years approx age wise on you...it gets alot harder once you get over about 32-33...some lads even slow before this. the rocket burns a bit, and the injuries take longer to heal....if they heal.

cowzerp

Millionaire wrote:

Thanks for the info gentlemen...
So if I can "supplement" something to get me the energy from now to xmas re training and work, and then no nothing for 2 weeks. and no supplements after that.

Hi
for recovery consider taking bcaa's and glutamine 20 mins before training and directly after also-bcaa's (branch chain amino acids)

Clive

celt2005 wrote:

If you are training hard, you need to supplement , as you will not get your dietary needs directly from food.

Wow, I must never have trained hard so!

crokester

FiannaGym.com wrote:

When I use the term "Ripped" I mean, low body fat on a healthy frame, so being "shredded" from being very underweight would not be the same as "ripped" which to me means in good shape.

crokester, I said "training like that" as in training seriously with the head down working hard. What kind of sparring do you do that doesnt work "explosive, anaroebic muscles"?

Anyway, when I say training twice a day and eating right will make your "ripped" I mean training twice a day, like a fighter (sorry that I assumed that) so 0-lifts, crossfit, sprints, etc and MMA sparring, drilling etc. (again I shouldnt have assumed MMA there, its just that I always talk about that like its what everyone does and everyone knows how to train right) sorry.

peace

Hi Fianna
I spar in both Thai boxing and BJJ. I agree that the training you described will put muscle on your frame with the right diet. But it would not be from the sparring part of it but mostly the crossfit. Rolling will never really work the type 2 muscles to a point of atrophy, ie growth, infact in my experience rolling tends to eat muscle at a very fast rate. In order to work the fast twitch explosive muscles you have to fatigue them with no more then 12 heavy lifting reps. You can probably role for hours, showing that rolling doesnt require use of type 2 muscle fibers (which fatigue quickly) but the araobic type 1 muscle fibers (which can work far longer, but dont get big)

Dragan

crokester wrote:

Rolling will never really work the type 2 muscles to a point of atrophy, ie growth, infact in my experience rolling tends to eat muscle at a very fast rate.

Not to be picky, but you mean hypertrophy there mate.