Renault, Pile of scrap, or Reliable Wheels?

colm_mcm

Renault, Pile of scrap, or Reliable Wheels? preferably going on experience,rather than hearsay

PaddyFagan

As always when the topic of brand relalibility comes up there is some risk of brand bashing because "my second cousins, mate had one and it was a pile of junk...." - I've owned two Renaults, a Clio for 4.5 years and a Megane for 2 - One problem with the Clio and one with the Megane (but this was a warentee repair) - I'd say that's fairly average with a European brand....

On the other hand some of the garages are muppets of the highest order.....
(But I'd contend that this is true of any brand in this country.)

Paddy

colm_mcm

yeah, I must stress to try and base your answer on first hand experience. to make it fair

kikel

Pile of crap i'd say. Cool styling and gadgets though.

connundrum

/Looks around for Junkyard :eek:

Pile of poo tbh. Test drove about 6 laguna's 4 months ago, they were actually comfortable but none of em felt 'right'. Steer clear IMO

Owen

Extremely poor residuals unless you're trading for another Renault. The only exception to this is a Clio.

Saruman

I had 2 clios both from new... the first one 2001 was perfect... only traded it in off a new one because some learner driver girl was chatting to her mate and not looking at the road and rear ended me... was watching her in my rear view mirror hoping she would stop... Anyway it lost whatever it had then and i wanted a new one so i got the newer model dynamique in 2002. Lovely car to drive, sporty suspension so hugged the road around corners etc...
This one had computer faults though... every few months a computer glitch, bring it back.. they reset the computer and shortly after it happens again.

So like any car.. some are good, others crap.

I would not buy a new one again.. maybe a second hand Scenic....

Wishbone Ash

Years ago I had a 400 series Volvo which have Renault engines. Never again. That car was by far the biggest heap of shít (engine wise) that I ever bought. I wouldn't go near one again. Probably unfair, I know, but it put me off Renault for life.

connundrum wrote:

/Looks around for Junkyard :eek:

:D:D What is his sig? Something like "Renault - I'd rather stick pins in my eyes".

BrianD3

My Renault experience consists of
-have driven around 300,000 miles in them
-family have owned around 20 of them
-many of the cars have been owned for long periods, over 10 years in some cases
-friends and work colleagues have bought Renaults based on my good experiences with them

Reliability in all of these cars has been generally very good, there have been wear and tear issues at high mileage but that's to be expected. There has been the odd silly reliability niggle like an ignition coil going in my Laguna, a common fault in many modern cars including Fords and VWs. BTW Renault paid half the cost for fitting 4 new coils despite the car being out of warranty and despite the fact that only one of them was faulty.

Whatever about reliability build quality has been good in Renaults for at least 15 years if anything I'd say the quality of bodywork and paintwork is better than most cars and interior build quality is alright. Exaggerated stories of Renault interiors "falling apart" are rubbish. If you are a clumsy oaf with size 14 boots and you kick the **** out of your car's interior every time you get in then maybe bits are going to fall off alright.

I agree that residual values are poor but since when were residuals a guide to how good a car is. Poor residual values are down to a cars image not necessarily how good or bad it is in reality.

Renault's image is not helped by posters in this forum shooting their mouths off and making exaggerated sweeping statements based on limited experience. Also, the general consensus among pub experts, Joe Duffy/Gerry Ryan listeners and taxi drivers is that Renaults are crap but since when were these groups a source of reliable information about anything. I mean if taxi drivers were to be believed you'd think that dem Nigerians are taking over the country and being handed free cars by the state :rolleyes:

Motorists have a lot to thank Renault for, it has been one of the most innovative car companies over the history of the motor industry and has produced many interesting and ground breaking vehicles over the years. The problem is most people are ignorant of this and all they have to go on when judging Renault is they heard their brother's friend's cousin had an electric window fail in his Megane :rolleyes:

skibum

We have a 00 reg 1.4 scenic for the last 3 years, has never given us any problems or let us down during that time. (touches nearest lump of wood )

Only thing I don't like is the 1.4 engine is a bit weedy for this car. The timing belt is "inside "the engine so thats why it costs around €800 depending where you go to get the belt done.

BrianD3

skibum wrote:

Only thing I don't like is the 1.4 engine is a bit weedy for this car. The timing belt is "inside "the engine so thats why it costs around €800 depending where you go to get the belt done.

That's actually a good engine though, might be a little small for the Scenic but does put out 95-100 bhp depending on the year. That's more than most 1.4s. VWs basic 1.4 produces 75 bhp and Ford's 75-80. The timing belt expense on the Scenic I believe is due to lack of access because of the shape of the car. Other mini MPVs are probably the same.

overdriver

I'll have to wade in with the opposing side here. My brother's Clio is a lovely car to drive and is very comfortable, butI still wouldn't buy one, based on the experience of other friends and relatives. I knwo what the point someone else was making about hearsay, but at the same time, this evidence is more direct for me.

The reviews of the Laguna - particularly the Dynamique, or as I call it the demonique, are pretty poor.

Dingatron

I have a 01 Laguna Concorde with 83,000 miles on the clock. No trouble with it in the last 2 odd years bar a broken fog lamp and the odd bulb blowing. 1.6 engine is not the quickest but it very comfortable for long drives. Thumbs up from me although I probably put the kibosh on it now.

junkyard

24 years of motor trade experience, I say they're crap. Read the facts in any review site or motoring info site, there's never smoke without fire, I think resale tells it all tbh.
Comparing the ratio of comments to votes here it strikes me that peoples dogs and cats must be voting too. I don't here too many people defending Renault with the exception of BrianD3 and one or two others..

prospect

junkyard wrote:

24 years of motor trade experience, I say they're crap. Read the facts in any review site or motoring info site, there's never smoke without fire, I think resale tells it all tbh.
Comparing the ratio of comments to votes here it strikes me that peoples dogs and cats must be voting too. I don't here too many people defending Renault with the exception of BrianD3 and one or two others..

I wouldn't say they are brilliant, but I wouldn't say they are crap either.

Also, as always with this forum, they contributers are very few.
This poll has 24 votes. What is that as a percentage of car users in europe?

Guy:Incognito

Was the differently worded thread, but about the same thing from yesterday not enough? Seriously, the renault debates are the new alfa debate.


As stated before, all renaults owned by me (3) and ones owned by my friends/family have been a1.

colm_mcm

the poll was really to get a good idea of peoples annonymous opinions, replys are optional.

BrianD3

'Tis quite a good thread, the previous one about "French Cars" was too general. It's more helpful to discuss a specific make or model preferably. BTW I voted that Renault are no better or worse than other European makes. At the moment in the poll slightly more people are saying Renaults are alright than are bashing them. I bet if the poll was limited to those who have OWNED at least one Renault then the result would be more in Renault's favour.

Obviously this poll is all about reliability of course, posters in this forum are obsessed with this for some reason. Endless posts talking about the reliability of Alfas, Renaults etc. yet very few post actually talking about other aspect of the cars or manufacturer. Rarely is it mentioned that
-Renault have produced most of the great hot hatches of the last 20 years
-For decades Renault have been at the forefront when it comes to useful innovations in family cars
-along with Citroen and Peugeot have the best ride comfort and seat comfort among family cars
-Have managed to produce small, cheap rugged cars with some semblence of character to them.
-small matter of 15 Formula 1 world championships, BTCC championship win, rallying wins.

But that's all irrelvant to some feckin eejit who drives a 1994 VW Vento SDI then boasts down the pub about how "shes a great yoke to go" and how he "wouldn't touch one of dem Ren-aw-lts" with a bargepole :rolleyes:

lomb

ive had alot of experiance with peugeot and they were/are crap.
if you buy a renault you will lose your shirt on it, the complex electrics will fail after the warranty runs out and you will be paying 000' for ecus for various units in the car. hell even mercedes have major problems on their recent cars with regards to electrics and mercedes is an innovater, renault merely copies what mercedes does on lesser cars. businessmen dont skip a beat if their sl needs a new throttle slide at 2 grand, but somehow something tells me a megane owner wont be happy if he gets the same bill..
also the residuals are crap. steer clear..

colm_mcm

I admire French cars, some of the things they do with electronics are amazing. the problem is when those things go wrong. There's a lot of thought put into them, for example a basic old model Clio will have speed-proportional stereo volume, the front wipers speed up as the car does, and the rear wiper comes on if you have the front ones on and put the car in reverse. The Laguna is the most comfortable car in its class, maybe the 407 is up there.

Unfortunately, if the car loses a huge amount of money and is unreliable, this stuff becomes less important.

eamon234

A few experiences to note. I had a 1.6 99 Megane for about two years no problems I put about 100k on the clock before I sold it on and never had a problem with it (unlike the sh1theap of an Opel Astra I bought after it which practically blew up)
Funnily enough while the Astra was getting a new engine (after months of trying to find one) I borrowed my mum's trusty Renault 19 (170k and only ever needed a new steering rack!) and proceeded to crash it head-on into a cement truck - I walked away from it there wasn't even a dent in the driver's footwell area. So don't forget - safety is a big plus factor with these cars, even the old ones.
She subsequently bought a 01 Megane and has had no problems bar a minor electrical one which the dealer sorted straight away.
My boss also had a 03 Diesel Laguna as a company car for 18 months. He drove the living arse out of it and put up 120k - once again no problems.

Guy:Incognito

eamon234 wrote:

A few experiences to note. I had a 1.6 99 Megane for about two years no problems I put about 100k on the clock before I sold it on and never had a problem with it (unlike the sh1theap of an Opel Astra I bought after it which practically blew up)
Funnily enough while the Astra was getting a new engine (after months of trying to find one) I borrowed my mum's trusty Renault 19 (170k and only ever needed a new steering rack!) and proceeded to crash it head-on into a cement truck - I walked away from it there wasn't even a dent in the driver's footwell area. So don't forget - safety is a big plus factor with these cars, even the old ones.
She subsequently bought a 01 Megane and has had no problems bar a minor electrical one which the dealer sorted straight away.
My boss also had a 03 Diesel Laguna as a company car for 18 months. He drove the living arse out of it and put up 120k - once again no problems.

I always find the safest option is to not crash into anything big and heavy.:D

Diddy Kong

The biggest problem with the Renault and the Laguna at the moment is the re-sale value. I spoke to a dealer about 2 weeks ago and he said he sold one last year for 26k odd and the same guy came back to upgrade and all the dealer would offer for the car was 14k....which is a hell of a drop.

Interceptor

I've had a Laguna, a Megane Classic and an Espace and I will never, repeat NEVER buy another Renault. I would prefer to drive Fiats and Rovers for the rest of my life than have to own another rubbish Renault.

'cptr

crosstownk

colm_mcm wrote:

I admire French cars, some of the things they do with electronics are amazing. the problem is when those things go wrong. There's a lot of thought put into them, for example a basic old model Clio will have speed-proportional stereo volume, the front wipers speed up as the car does, and the rear wiper comes on if you have the front ones on and put the car in reverse. The Laguna is the most comfortable car in its class, maybe the 407 is up there.

Unfortunately, if the car loses a huge amount of money and is unreliable, this stuff becomes less important.

Well said - and I agree entirely.

I'm not a fan of Renaults recent reliability problems. It's not that every Renault on the road is a nightmare, lemon, monday morning car or whatever phrase you choose. It's simply that a higher proportion of them give trouble in relation to other makes and models at the moment. And as others have said this is affecting the residual values of Renaults. So even you have a 100% reliable 2004 Renault Laguna, it will not acheive as much on a trade in because of the reputation.

Live and let live - buy a Renault if you like them - there is a lot to like as Colm stated. Just be prepared for the drop in value.

All that considered I voted "pile of scrap". It reflects what I see daily. But in the past two years the amount of Renaults on company fleets has drastically dropped due to the poor residual. The same thing happpened with Alfas. In my job a headache with a Renault is never far away. Not trying to 'Renault bash' - just my experience. I've as much trouble with VW's (not the most reliable brand in the world either) as I do with Renaults. But I've 5 times more VWs than Renaults.

colm_mcm

I was more tolerant of french and italian cars before I started working in the motor trade and saw how much less reliable they were. I thought it was all hearsay too.

eamon234

Stekelly wrote:

I always find the safest option is to not crash into anything big and heavy.:D

Weeeelll..... strictly speaking he crashed into me!

eamon234

crosstownk wrote:

Well said - and I agree entirely.


All that considered I voted "pile of scrap". It reflects what I see daily. But in the past two years the amount of Renaults on company fleets has drastically dropped due to the poor residual. The same thing happpened with Alfas. In my job a headache with a Renault is never far away. Not trying to 'Renault bash' - just my experience. I've as much trouble with VW's (not the most reliable brand in the world either) as I do with Renaults. But I've 5 times more VWs than Renaults.

Just as a matter of interest - what would you reckon the most reliable to be?

junkyard

I think its fair to say that people in the motor trade will have more experience in seeing problems in the likes of Renaults than most other people and as a result are more reliable witnesses than most.

BrianD3

BrianD3 wrote:

Renault's image is not helped by posters in this forum shooting their mouths off and making exaggerated sweeping statements based on limited experience. Also, the general consensus among pub experts, Joe Duffy/Gerry Ryan listeners and taxi drivers is that Renaults are crap but since when were these groups a source of reliable information about anything. I mean if taxi drivers were to be believed you'd think that dem Nigerians are taking over the country and being handed free cars by the state :rolleyes:

What a breath of fresh air.

Its all to common I wander into a thread about Fiats or Renaults and many of the replys are from people spouting crap they heard in the pub about those brands being crap.

Fiats, you mean fix it again tomorrow !!!1 FTW
:rolleyes:

crosstownk

eamon234 wrote:

Just as a matter of interest - what would you reckon the most reliable to be?

TBH, A Toyota. Not my first choice to drive, but taking into account reliability, ownership experience and residual value, the Toyota brand is tops. Most Japanese brands aren't far behind either. Japanese design and styling is not as good as the European manufacturers, imo.

colm_mcm

Toyota, Mazda and Subaru I reckon are the best built.

EDIT: throw Honda in there too.

junkyard

colm_mcm wrote:

Toyota, Mazda and Subaru I reckon are the best built.

I'd say so too, if I was to buy one of the three I'd go for the Subaru though, I think they're a bit more exclusive. Even though the Subaru doesn't hold its money well its still a superior product to the others.

starman100

Well, I am on my 4th Renault (3 Meganes and a 19 before that) and I have to say that in the main, they have all been pretty reliable. One or two niggles like ignition coil needed replacing (under warranty) on the latest Megane and the window electrics started playing up but nothing major.

Engines are not overly powerful and compared to the Mondeo we had for a while, driving experience is crap. But SWMBO likes the Megane so we had to change.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the very good safety features with the Renaults, they all have the top NCAP rating, etc. Lots of electrics but lots of airbags as well.

Pity about the poor residuals, I guess the only solution is to drive them into the ground .

eamon234

crosstownk wrote:

TBH, A Toyota. Not my first choice to drive, but taking into account reliability, ownership experience and residual value, the Toyota brand is tops. Most Japanese brands aren't far behind either. Japanese design and styling is not as good as the European manufacturers, imo.

I know but they're so bloody boring the Corolla and Avensis are as dull as dishwater - they look hideous - if they only sexed them up a a bit....get Pininfarina to design the new models I say!

colm_mcm

eamon234 wrote:

I know but they're so bloody boring the Corolla and Avensis are as dull as dishwater - they look hideous - if they only sexed them up a a bit....get Pininfarina to design the new models I say!

They appeal to a huge amount of people though. I don't reckon anyone needs to give Toyota lessons on how to make cars people want.

Anyway. Wasn't Pinninfarina responsible for this?

And this?

Guy:Incognito

kind of on the subject of residuals (but not really. Why would any garage order one of these http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=203423 into stock or take one as a trade in. It will never shift. Appologies if I'm generalising but the boy racers that the type of car appeals to wont want a 3ltr engine and wont be spending €44k. Especially when the 2ltr model for half the money, has similar performance.

Also, other than it being a low nember, how is 05 wx 6 a cherished reg? It has no relevance to the car

I'm actually considering a 2nd hand clio 197 as a 2nd car in a couple of years just to give it a go.

crosstownk

Stekelly wrote:

kind of on the subject of residuals (but not really. Why would any garage order one of these http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=203423 into stock or take one as a trade in. It will never shift. Appologies if I'm generalising but the boy racers that the type of car appeals to wont want a 3ltr engine and wont be spending €44k. Especially when the 2ltr model for half the money, has similar performance.

Also, other than it being a low nember, how is 05 wx 6 a cherished reg? It has no relevance to the car

I'm actually considering a 2nd hand clio 197 as a 2nd car in a couple of years just to give it a go.

It'd be saleproof on a Renault main dealer's forecourt. But in the right forecourt it might shift......................

knifey_spoonie

On the basis of resale value

Just came up today

Change 06 corolla to 07 € 3500- 4000
Change 06 megane to 07 corolla € 7000-8000

now if youve just bought a megane and you find that next year you want to change to anything but a renault your going to lose your arse and a bit of your spine and the any part of your body in the arse area

Not to mention a lunguna when within a years warrenty youre almost definitaly going to replace window regs and see it back because renault have great ideas for electrics but can never build to the quality needed

Not to mention replacing the water pump on a megane with 25000 miles

And thats from experience

ds20prefecture

junkyard wrote:

I think its fair to say that people in the motor trade will have more experience in seeing problems in the likes of Renaults than most other people and as a result are more reliable witnesses than most.

Yes... People in the motor trade are very reliable all right...

I have to laugh - the biggest problem that brands like Renault and Alfa have are the ****e dealers and botched maintenance jobs. And their biggest detractors are the motor trade.

colm_mcm

ds20prefecture wrote:

Yes... People in the motor trade are very reliable all right...

I have to laugh - the biggest problem that brands like Renault and Alfa have are the ****e dealers and botched maintenance jobs. And their biggest detractors are the motor trade.

you can't blame the dealers for poorly constructed cars.

ds20prefecture

Perhaps not, but I can blame dealers for not sorting out the problems of poorly constructed cars. You, whom as far as I know work for a Toyota dealer, know that cars are very complex things and are prone to failure. The difference is that Toyota dealers give a damn about their clients.

ds20prefecture

Oh and in terms of design flair, innovation and passive safety Renault aren't anywhere near the same league as the Japs. The Japs are a million miles behind. As are the Germans, by and large.

Motors@boards.ie - about as unbiased and open minded as sky news.

God I hate propaganda.

overdriver

...and what of the niggling issue of reliability, DS20? How far behind are the Japs there? How come they seem to be able to make cars which are, on the whole, more reliable? Could it be that they don't rush their innovations? Are cautious in that regard?

So what's preferable: flair, or actually getting to where you're going?

crosstownk

ds20prefecture wrote:

Perhaps not, but I can blame dealers for not sorting out the problems of poorly constructed cars. You, whom as far as I know work for a Toyota dealer, know that cars are very complex things and are prone to failure. The difference is that Toyota dealers give a damn about their clients.

To a certain extent you are right - but not entirely. So many cars nowadays have specialised equipment on board that is particular to each car. It is up to the manufacturer to ensure that all dealers are properly trained and knowledgeable of the systems in each particular brand, and of course how to identify problems. Some manufacturers do this well and others don't.

Also, if a particular brand is particularly unreliable then the dealer is going to be quite busy, this doesn't help matters. Often there are problems that arise where neither dealer nor the manufacturer can identify the source of the problem - this doesn't happen regurlarly but its not unheard of.

And you are right, Toyota dealers do give a damn about their clients and nationwide, Toyota dealers are probably the best ,nicest and easiest to deal with especially if you compare them to most VW dealers whose attitude stinks. I find Renault dealers lie somewhere in the middle.

Vegeta

French cars are always at the bottom of JD Power surveys.


Are those suveys any good, can you believe what they say or are they a load of sh1te

junkyard

Vegeta wrote:

French cars are always at the bottom of JD Power surveys.


Are those suveys any good, can you believe what they say or are they a load of sh1te

It looks like its all a myth, French cars are the ultimate cars to own in every way, yeah right. I will hand it to them on a couple of things, the Peugeot 504, the Renault 16 and the Citroen DS were probably the three greatest cars the French ever made but its all been down hill from there, its a pity really because they can do it if they really wanted to.

@ DS check out the allocated times to do routine maintenance on most French cars compared to most other brand names. Check out GlassMatics, it makes for some depressing reading for French brands.

prospect

junkyard wrote:

It looks like its all a myth, French cars are the ultimate cars to own in every way, yeah right.

I don't think anybody is saying that.
What they ARE saying is that French cars are not ABSOLOUTLY TERRIBLE, as you insist.

Lets be grown up here for a minute:
To say ALL french cars are crap, and that ALL Japanese cars are brilliant, that is just childish, foolish, naive and frankly untrue.


Also to whomever suggested that Toyota are generally the most reliable manufacturer, you are wrong. Mazda are, followed by Honda, followed in third place by Toyota.

Also, the actual fundamental difference between the most reliable and the least reliable is actually very small. Probably 5 or 6 cars per 100 might require one extra visit per annum on average.

Vegeta

prospect wrote:

I don't think anybody is saying that.
What they ARE saying is that French cars are not ABSOLOUTLY TERRIBLE, as you insist.

Lets be grown up here for a minute:
To say ALL french cars are crap, and that ALL Japanese cars are brilliant, that is just childish, foolish, naive and frankly untrue.


Also to whomever suggested that Toyota are generally the most reliable manufacturer, you are wrong. Mazda are, followed by Honda, followed in third place by Toyota.

Also, the actual fundamental difference between the most reliable and the least reliable is actually very small. Probably 5 or 6 cars per 100 might require one extra visit per annum on average.

I mean this in the best way but can you quote your source for this as I have been looking for stats all day and I can only find those JD Power surveys which are customer satisfaction surveys not reliability ones.

So if you could point me in the direction of a reliable reliability survey (da dum tish) i'd greatly appreciate it

prospect

Vegeta wrote:

I mean this in the best way but can you quote your source for this as I have been looking for stats all day and I can only find those JD Power surveys which are customer satisfaction surveys not reliability ones.

So if you could point me in the direction of a reliable reliability survey (da dum tish) i'd greatly appreciate it

Lovely :rolleyes: , you put me on the spot;) .

Well, looking at the more recent survey, there is an entirely different story!

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/top10.html?apc=3128339010848601

junkyard

Reading car magazines to find the truth about cars is like reading Time magazine to find out about the Iraq war. In my experience with magazines they can be swayed one way or the other by who pays the most money, pretty much like any news paper tbh. To put it in easier term for some people to understand, if your building a house you ask an engineer for his or her opinion and value it, if your buying a boat you ask a marine surveyor his or her opinion and value that. If I knew nothing about cars I'd be inclined to ask a mechanic or a panel beater his or her opinion and value it, I mightn't necessarily agree with it but I would assume they have some idea about what they are talking about.