What has this woman got against tourists?

Mad Finn

Here's a letter from Aine Ni Chonaill of the Immigration Control Platform in today's Irish Times. (Sub needed)

Madam, - Your edition of November 1st reports on a recent poll in which about half the respondents expressed worries about the future levels of immigration.

In this context it may be of interest that at the recent a.g.m. of Immigration Control Platform the following motion was passed as policy: "That a referendum be held to amend the Constitution as follows: 'The Government shall ensure through legislation, policies and planning that the percentage of foreign residents shall not exceed 10 per cent of the population [ i.e. the current percentage as shown by the Census of 2006]; this amendment to allow for recognition of EU Treaty agreements." - Yours, etc,

ÁINE NÍ CHONAILL, PRO, Immigration Control Platform, Dublin 2.



I'm not being a pedant but this is utter nonsense. To go from talking about fears over immigration to defining the problem in terms of 'foreign residents' is just ridiculous. If somebody is a 'foreign resident' then by definition, they don't live here. This seems to be a call for the Constitution to be amended to curtail visits here by people who live abroad eg money spinning tourists, businessmen looking for investment opportunities, returning emigrants coming back for a few days to visit mammy.

I think I know what she means to say. But she hasn't got the guts to say it.

Or maybe it's just that however you try to phrase whatever her beef is, you just can't do so without looking like a complete fool.

jmcc

Mad Finn wrote:

I'm not being a pedant but this is utter nonsense.

Why? I think that you are willfully misunderstanding the term "foreign resident" in order to start a thread about racism. In this particular context it means non-Irish Citizens who are resident here. And a resident is quite different to a tourist. Your jump from foreign residents to tourists defies any known logic.

Regards...jmcc

Mad Finn

Now don't go off on a tangent. I am quoting what she says is her motion for a constitutional amendment. Such changes to the constitution mean what they say, not what their author intends them to mean.

I think I know what 'foreign resident' means without recourse to the dictionary. It means somebody who lives in another country. An immigrant, by defintion, is somebody who resides here and is therefore not a 'foreign resident'.

She is urging a constitutional imperative to restrict the number of 'foreign residents' to ten per cent of the population. This is nonsensical. They are not part of the population at all.

This amendment that she is proposing, would restrict the number of emigrants, eg Dennis O'Brien, Terry Wogan, my favourite cousins etc etc from returning to the country en masse.

The wording is ridiculous.

It's not so much her debatable racism I am astounded by as her stupidity.

flogen

The whole concept, along with the wording, is ridiculous.

lostexpectation

I don't know why the IT keeps publishing her letters, if they want to put foward anti-immigration letter fine but why go the all out facists for it, you get these immigration debates and they invite a BNP'er rather then a government person to justify current and future ****tiness of the actual laws and systems

its funny how she suddenly thinks 10% is acceptable

jmcc

Mad Finn wrote:

I think I know what 'foreign resident' means without recourse to the dictionary. It means somebody who lives in another country. An immigrant, by defintion, is somebody who resides here and is therefore not a 'foreign resident'.

Foreign resident = non-Irish citizen resident in Ireland = immigrant. Simple enough for you? Now stop trying to pretend that "foreign resident" means an Irish person living abroad in this context as it makes you look foolish.

The wording is ridiculous.

Obviously it needs to be simpler if it causes such confusion and consternation.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

lostexpectation wrote:

I don't know why the IT keeps publishing her letters, if they want to put foward anti-immigration letter fine but why go the all out facists for it,

Freedom of speech? No doubt they will publish letters from the opposite end of the political spectrum too (RAR etc).

Regards...jmcc

mike65

The IT can publish and feel happy that thier readership is unlikely to buy her message, if on the other hand she wrote to the Evening Herald they might have to think long and hard before they printed!

Mike.

tbh

the government will never offer a referendum because the people will never pass it. She knows that - this is just a free ad to drum up publicity and, therefore, money.

She's the best thing about that party (go with me on this). The longer she stays in power, the longer they'll be a laughing stock. Long may she reign.

DMC

Is she the new Justin Barrett??

Mad Finn

jmcc wrote:

Foreign resident = non-Irish citizen resident in Ireland = immigrant. Simple enough for you?

No. That would be a resident foreigner.

jmcc wrote:

Now stop trying to pretend that "foreign resident" means an Irish person living abroad in this context as it makes you look foolish.

Perilously close to a personal attack. You wouldn't get away with that on the rugby forum.

jmcc wrote:

Obviously it needs to be simpler if it causes such confusion and consternation.

Regards...jmcc

So you're agreeing then that such a totally ambiguous phrase has NO place in a constitutional amendment and suggesting that it does is the height of stupidity?

Mad Finn

DMC wrote:

Is she the new Justin Barrett??

Ain't nothing new about ANC. She's a little old lady.Been with us for some time.

RedPlanet

Here's a picture of the lady:
http://www.ucdsu.net/attachments/feb2006/anc.jpg

tbh

brilliant!

bonkey

Mad Finn wrote:

No. That would be a resident foreigner.

Can you show any legislation which uses this term?

If you do a google for "foreign resident", you'll get a shedload of hits which all back up the interpretation that jmcc has offered. Much of the first page are links to various governmental sites (from various nations) all of whom are clearly referring to an interpretation consistent with that of jmcc.

You appear to be arguing that its saying a foreign resident is someone resident in a foreign country, regardless of citizenship. Perhaps you could then explain how the census of 2006 found that 10% of the people living in Ireland at the time were actually not living in Ireland but rather somewhere else.

Mad Finn

bonkey wrote:

Can you show any legislation which uses this term?

Bad and all as our legislators are, I don't think even they would be so stupid as to insert such a vauge ambiguous term open to various different and indeed contradictory interpretations. And I wasn't criticising the legislators. I was criticisng ICP and ANC. It;s their wording, not the legislators.

bonkey wrote:

If you do a google for "foreign resident", you'll get a shedload of hits which all back up the interpretation that jmcc has offered. Much of the first page are links to various governmental sites (from various nations) all of whom are clearly referring to an interpretation consistent with that of jmcc.

So what? Our national state-owned broadcaster frequently uses the term 'non national' to refer to a citizen of a foreign country living here. It doesn't make the term any less meaningless. Everybody has some nationality except the very few people whose circumstances are so bizarre that they are disowned by the various nations they might belong to. eg the Indonesian kid who was adopted and then handed back by an Irish couple.

bonkey wrote:

You appear to be arguing that its saying a foreign resident is someone resident in a foreign country, regardless of citizenship. Perhaps you could then explain how the census of 2006 found that 10% of the people living in Ireland at the time were actually not living in Ireland but rather somewhere else.

Seasonal workers. Holiday makers/guests from overseas who got entered into the census data by misunderstanding. People rich enough to live in two countries simultaneously for tax purposes.

But I don't really think they're the people she's talking about now, do you?

My basic point is that once you start trying to articulate what makes a 'foreigner' you get into a whole load of nonsense that ends up in a meaningless and expensive bureaucracy. I'm guessing you're Irish living in Switzerland (ie a foreign resident;) ) What if you have children born there with a 'non national' :rolleyes: partner and you want to return home. Is your family 'foreign' or not?

Many of the 'foreigners' in this country, as defined by 'people born outside the state', are the children of former emigrants now returning home.

DMC

Mad Finn wrote:

Ain't nothing new about ANC. She's a little old lady.Been with us for some time.

RedPlanet wrote:

Here's a picture of the lady:
http://www.ucdsu.net/attachments/feb2006/anc.jpg

Aha... name and face didn't click with me straight away... thanks!

mike65

Bloody geography teachers get on my tits.

http://www.electionsireland.org/candidate.cfm?id=4249

Mike.

Snickers Man

mike65 wrote:

Bloody geography teachers get on my tits.

http://www.electionsireland.org/candidate.cfm?id=4249

Mike.

LOL! Does this mean that if i stand for election and get less than 1,000 votes, the Times will print any old venomous rubbish I send to their letters editor too?

Mind you, she did treble her vote by moving from Cork to Dublin.