Planning perrmission question

deadl0ck

I'm about to apply for planning permission in County Westmeath.

What happens if planning permissionis refused - Do they have to give valid reasons as to why it is refeused ?

The reason I ask is that I had a pre-planning meeting with Westmeath Co. Co. and was told stuff like "We don't like hexagonal-type sunrooms - square it off" and "We don't like bay windows". I did a drive around within 6 miles from where I'm applying for the planning permission, and I've seen house that are currently being built, with heaxgonal-type sunrooms, and with bay windows.
Because of this, I'm going to submit my plans as they are, seeing as they have already granted this planning in my area....or does it work like this ??

Any info on this would be great !!!

gonk

deadl0ck wrote:

I'm about to apply for planning permission in County Westmeath.

What happens if planning permissionis refused - Do they have to give valid reasons as to why it is refeused ?

Yes, they do. Any decision to refuse, or any conditions attached to the permission (such as squaring off your sunroom) must have justifications supplied with valid planning reasons.

For what it's worth, the Department of the Environment "Sustainable Rural Housing Guidelines for Planning Authorities" issued in April of last year told planning authorities that "In assessing the design aspects of specific rural housing proposals,planning authorities should make well balanced and informed judgements on the merits of each proposal, taking on board the degree to which a site is sensitive in visual and other terms, the character of surrounding development and the wider area and the need to encourage innovation in design and construction techniques, while avoiding an overly prescriptive approach, such as an outright ban on particular materials e.g. brick, across all proposals in a given area in relation to the designs and finishes chosen." (my emphasis)

http://www.environ.ie/DOEI/DOEIPol.nsf/0/1829f4edf25b12b380256f5d004dd108/$FILE/Final Version of Rural Planning Guidelines 13 5 05.pdf

What this means in practice, I'm unsure, but if it were me and I was going back for another pre-planning meeting, I'd be asking them to justify their aversion to hexagonal sunrooms and bay windows in the context of these guidelines.

deadl0ck

Thanks for that.

My site is on family land, and its about 300, from a public road, and is almost completely surrounded from trees.
There a spot on the road, about 500m away, where you'll be able to see the side of the house when it's built.

I think I'll submit what we have, as it's what we want, and they'll have to come back to me with reasons. If I'm not happy, I'll appeal to An bord plannala....

gonk

deadl0ck wrote:

I think I'll submit what we have, as it's what we want, and they'll have to come back to me with reasons. If I'm not happy, I'll appeal to An bord plannala....

Beware, if you appeal to An Bord Pleanála, they will re-assess they entire application from scratch. In other words, you can't just appeal a single condition of a planning decision, e.g., a requirement to square off your sunroom. It is always possible (though probably unlikely) that the board could actually reverse the entire decision to grant planning permission.

I think your best bet is to seek another pre-planning meeting with someone in the local authority who actually knows what they're talking about.

deadl0ck

OK - I'll bear that in mind -Thanks !

Gurgle

gonk wrote:

Yes, they do. Any decision to refuse, or any conditions attached to the permission (such as squaring off your sunroom) must have justifications supplied with valid planning reasons.

Be careful with that point - theres nothing to stop them giving you new reasons on the second attempt with the complaints from the first attempt answered.

Salmon

Is the Sunroom at the back of the house? If so I'd put in the plans without the sunroom and then build it at the back of the house and get an engineer to certify that because its under the 40m threshold its an exempt development. I know some may say this isnt a good way to go about it but im of the opinion that its much easier to ask forgiveness than permission in some cases. btw im just after going through the planning process with the westmeath coco and I have to say i found them very approachable. Where abouts in WH are you building OP??

deadl0ck

The sunrom is to the left side of the house and the kitchen/living room opens into it.

I'm building not far from Moyvore and Ballynacargy (in the sticks . About 3 miles from the Longford border.

Did you build a big house ? Also was it 1 storey, 2 storey, 1 1/2 storey or dormer ?

Winnie001

What they generally do is come back to you for 'further information' if there is only a part of the development that they object to. So they would ask you to resubmit amended plans to exclude whatever design feature they object to. So yes I would say submit it as it is & hope for the best but mayb be willing to change the plans if they request it be changed.
I would not at that stage then appeal to an bord pleanalla -> I don't see them over turning a small factor like that. In reality the only reason anyone should be going to An BP is if there is a fundamental disagreement - usually if the county council won't grant you planning permission at all.
Is it worth all the hastle for such a small design feature - I don't think so.

So basically chance it for now but change it if that is the only problem that the council have with the design. Don't count your chickens, this sun room could be the least of your problems when it comes to getting planning!

Mellor

Salmon wrote:

Is the Sunroom at the back of the house? If so I'd put in the plans without the sunroom and then build it at the back of the house and get an engineer to certify that because its under the 40m threshold its an exempt development.

If he builds it like that, its not exempt development. As the sunroom was built with the house, not as an extension. When finished the house wouldn't comply with planning. And you could get into all sorts of problems. You'd need retention on any work like that.

Jambo

Deadlock ,

Why not call up your local co co office and arrange a meeting with your area's planning officer , they are usually available once a week for pre-planning meetings any you can discuss design suitability within the area with him / her .

You should be able to find details of when they normallly meet ( by appointment ) on the coco's website !!

Mellor

deadl0ck wrote:

The reason I ask is that I had a pre-planning meeting with Westmeath Co. Co.

Already had a pre-planning meeting apparently

Jambo

Mellor wrote:

Already had a pre-planning meeting apparently

Sorry folks I somehow overlooked that part of the ops question !