An alternative to Godparents...

Ronan H

Hello, I was wondering if some people could suggest some alternatives to having Godparents... Neither myself or my wife are religious and we probably wont get our son christened etc... I was wondering if anyone had done anything as an alternative ceremony and what term they use to refer to the special people in their childrens lives if they dont use the actual term "Godparent" etc...?

We would still like to have two people in our sons life that would have a special relationship with him similar to that of a godparent, but not with the traditional religious aspect to it...

Would appreciate peoples thoughts on this. Thanks.

Head

CathyMoran

Am not a parent yet (and can not start to have kids for at least another year, but that is another issue) but the person that I want to be godafther is of a different faith so have gone through my options. We will have him down as legal guardian of the child and will call him a godparent to the child. Hope that this helps.

Ronan H

We have the legal bits sorted through our wills and we ideally dont want to use the term "Godparent" because of the "God" bit...

Talliesin

Then don't.

"Godparent" doesn't mean anything in a legal document like a will anyway.

Ronan H

Then don't.

@ Talliesin: Thanks for that, i wont :rolleyes:

And just to clarify my last post, i havent used the term "Godparent" in my will, i was just saying that outside of the will i didnt want to use the term, but it didnt come across very clearly in the post.

Gordon

Call them the child's uncle or aunt, I think it's quite an honour to be someone's uncle when you aren't strictly their uncle.

mountainyman

Have a naming ceremony/blessing not in a church, write it yourselves and invite the people you want to be Godparents (and lots of other people) then get everyone drunk.
Remember that these things are about a welcome to the community so a 'blessing' element may be nice for people like Grandparents and Aunts and so on.

MM

Ronan H

@ Gordon: Yeah that is a nice idea, you hear a lot of people referring to close friends etc... as Uncle X or Aunt Y even though they arent related by definition. It reminds me of some Nigerian friends we have who we are not related to and their little girl calls us Aunty and Uncle, its very sweet. I think she calls everyone that, its in some way traditional i think but i cant remember exactly...

@ MM: Yeah we did something similar for our wedding, we wrote our own ceremony and had the celebration in a castle in Galway, it was definitely worth the effort to do things differently and everyone lved it because it was personal and written by us instead of generic clessings etc...

Uncle Head

Gordon

I guess if you want to embellish the uncle/aunt thing you can call them 'Great Uncle' or 'Great Aunt'! Or Greatfather, Greatmother.. well, maybe not.

Incidentally, this may be better off in the parenting forum, do you want it moved or would you prefer it here?

LegacyUser

I don't see why you would bother with any ceremony, what's the point? The ceremony you wish to mimic is a christian initiation, doubtless other religions have similar ceremonies, so would you not consider it slightly hypocritical to have a 'fake' ceremony? As for the godparents, again, sounds pretty bollocksy to me - why would you feel the need for the kid to have these 'special' relationships with some adults anyway. Is it just to ensure they get decent presents?
What about communion, you planning a little ceremony for that too - just so the kid won't feel left out like?

JackieChan

I tend to agree with "Why Bother". Anybody that needs to know about your childs birth already knows. No need to have a 'ceremony' aswell.

Ickle Magoo

Why bother??? wrote:

I don't see why you would bother with any ceremony, what's the point? The ceremony you wish to mimic is a christian initiation, doubtless other religions have similar ceremonies, so would you not consider it slightly hypocritical to have a 'fake' ceremony? As for the godparents, again, sounds pretty bollocksy to me - why would you feel the need for the kid to have these 'special' relationships with some adults anyway. Is it just to ensure they get decent presents?
What about communion, you planning a little ceremony for that too - just so the kid won't feel left out like?

Pfff! What? Lots of religions include a marriage or joining ceremony, including paganism which was around long before Christianity! What is it about religious people that they think their beliefs are the only ones to ever have existed in the world! :rolleyes:

We got married for legal reasons, to bind our relationship & for a good party. It had nothing to do with religion or wanting to ape a Christian ceremony - the Christians "borrowed" many of their festivals & ceremonies from other religions & belief systems afterall!

OP,

We have guardians so that if anything happened to my husband & I, it is recognised & known that the children would go to live with their guardians - for that very reason we thought a special title was deserved & a special relationship with our children is warranted. hth

iguana

Here's a link to a site with a few good ideas; http://www.tinyprints.com/namingceremony.htm

Non religious people are perfectly entitled to have a party to celebrate the birth of their children. In fact one of my uncles and his wife are pagan and jewish and they never had a party/ceremony for the birth of either of their children and I know a lot of my family felt it was missed. Nobody expected them to have a christening but it felt a little strange to not have a family get together to celebrate the baby.

LegacyUser

'

iguana wrote:

Non religious people are perfectly entitled to have a party to celebrate the birth of their children. In fact one of my uncles and his wife are pagan and jewish and they never had a party/ceremony for the birth of either of their children and I know a lot of my family felt it was missed. Nobody expected them to have a christening but it felt a little strange to not have a family get together to celebrate the baby.

\r\n\r\nIn this instance if your uncle was a pagan then he was not non-religous??\r\nAnyway my point is, actually I dunno anymore, I just don\'t see the point of making a big deal of being non-religous and then running off and aping religous ceremonies. Maybe it\'s just this whole obsession with drinking to celebrate every event that\'s annoying me (let\'s face it, that\'s become the real reason for virtually every ceremony in this country, be it religous, non-religous.....)\r\n\r\nAnyway, congrats to the OP on becoming a parent, we\'re trying ourselves with no joy yet!'

nitrogen

Gordon wrote:

Call them the child's uncle or aunt, I think it's quite an honour to be someone's uncle when you aren't strictly their uncle.

Good point. This is common in SE Asian culture. People would refer to someone who is close to their parents as an aunt or uncle.

iguana

Why bother??? wrote:

'\r\n\r\nIn this instance if your uncle was a pagan then he was not non-religous??\r\n

Fair point, but it still stands that non-religious people are entitled to hold a celebration for the birth of their child.

Nevyn

Many of these ceremonies go back before religion and before christainity.
The thing is for most irish people the christain/catholic ceremonies have become
THE to mark the rites of passage in our lives and with our familes.

Every culture as it's rites of passage to mark and celebrate the bigs days and turning events in our lives.

They don't have to be christain and they don't have to revovle around the pub and/or church.

Ickle Magoo

Why bother??? wrote:

I just don\'t see the point of making a big deal of being non-religous and then running off and aping religous ceremonies.

As has already been pointed out to you, the rites of passage in life; birth, the joining of two people in a marriage, death, etc have been celebrated/practiced long before Christianity came on the scene - if anything Christians are aping pagan & celtic rituals...:rolleyes:

LegacyUser

Ickle Magoo wrote:

As has already been pointed out to you, the rites of passage in life; birth, the joining of two people in a marriage, death, etc have been celebrated/practiced long before Christianity came on the scene - if anything Christians are aping pagan & celtic rituals...:rolleyes:

But Ickle, the whole point is that all these ceremonies from whatever time period you want to name were religous, does't matter that they weren't christian.

Ickle Magoo

Whybother??? wrote:

But Ickle, the whole point is that all these ceremonies from whatever time period you want to name were religous, does't matter that they weren't christian.

I don't think Wicca or Celticism are classed as true religions, in the modern sense, since they are based more on spirituality & nature than Man & a "God". Many people who are very spiritual & closer to the origins of religion than many modern denominations consider themselves "not religious". The original celebrations surrounding birth, death & the joining of man & woman are societous ritual celebrations pre-dating religion, certainly pre-dating the organised religious events you are referring to. Modern day religious ceremonies are as far away from their origins as any athiest is from God - why does anyone bother?

Telling someone there is no point in celebrating the birth of a child, the joining of two people, or to have a ritual when someone passes because they are somehow pertinant only to those belonging to a religion is utter nonsense imo. I believe two people welcoming a new life into the world is cause for celebration regardless of whether there is a God or not.

Sorry, we're going a bit OT now - tho I think The OP's question pertained to the term "God"parents when they were not religious - I don't believe they asked whether athiests or agnostics should be entitled to celebrate the birth of their children however they see fit.

Annie Bananie

I'm not Irish, but Swedish.
In Sweden not very many are very religious and the feel the same way as the OP.

What some do over here, is that they have a "naming ceremony" (As someone talked about before), where the closest family and friends gather. (and noone gets drunk!) The parents tell everyone what the baby's names are going to be name and everybody welcomes the newly born. Then the parents also tells who is going to be the baby's mentors in life. The mentor will be instead of a Godparent, where the mentor should look after the child while growing up and give advise, just like any Godparent would do. And if the parent wants, even make them some kind of leagal guardian.

But if I understood the OP correctly, it was the term that was asked for, and I would suggest then mentor

Nevyn

Ickle Magoo wrote:

I don't think Wicca or Celticism are classed as true religions, in the modern sense, since they are based more on spirituality & nature than Man & a "God".

Can't ever say I have heard of Celticism before.
And Wicca most desidedly has Gods.
Many if the pagan paths do have gods, some don't and those tend to be about revering nature.

Many people who are very spiritual & closer to the origins of religion than many modern denominations consider themselves "not religious". The original celebrations surrounding birth, death & the joining of man & woman are societous ritual celebrations pre-dating religion, certainly pre-dating the organised religious events you are referring to. Modern day religious ceremonies are as far away from their origins as any athiest is from God - why does anyone bother?

Telling someone there is no point in celebrating the birth of a child, the joining of two people, or to have a ritual when someone passes because they are somehow pertinant only to those belonging to a religion is utter nonsense imo. I believe two people welcoming a new life into the world is cause for celebration regardless of whether there is a God or not.

Sorry, we're going a bit OT now - tho I think The OP's question pertained to the term "God"parents when they were not religious - I don't believe they asked whether athiests or agnostics should be entitled to celebrate the birth of their children however they see fit.

All birthdays are celbrated in some way, no reason why the birth would not be.

Ickle Magoo

Sorry Thaedydal,

Is Wicca a religion? I didn't think it was. You'd know better than me tho! I was trying (badly) to differentiate between organised religion & other belief systems which may have similar celebrations but are in no way trying to copy Christianity...& I couldn't think of another term for rituals the Celts started - Celtic rituals would have been better, now that I actually think about it!

I just get so :mad: when people say "why bother" celebrating something as wonderful as birth, or two people in love making a commitment just because they are not Christian or even religious - like that stops it being an experience worth celebrating & somehow bans non-Christian parents choosing guardians or mentors for their children because Christians do something similar.

Nevyn

I guess those people just don't understand how early christainty work and how it adopted the rites and rituals of people as it moved across countries

LegacyUser

Ickle Magoo wrote:

I just get so :mad: when people say "why bother" celebrating something as wonderful as birth, or two people in love making a commitment just because they are not Christian or even religious - like that stops it being an experience worth celebrating & somehow bans non-Christian parents choosing guardians or mentors for their children because Christians do something similar.

Ickle, I have no wish to make anyone angry or stop anyone having their celebration party, my point was 'why bother' having godparents (or their equivalent), and why have a naming ceremony (or indeed a 'wedding' ceremony)? If everything is tied up legally, then by all means have the party to celebrate that, but in my opinion the ceremonial bit ie. exchanging vows or coming up with some ritual for naming the kid are way over the top. They are quasi religous rituals whatever way you look at them, since the OP stated that he was non-religious, i can't see why he would then want to create a religious style environment, is it so he can form his own religion, called "non-religion"?
As for all the rituals and where they originally emanated from, presumably all rituals were religious at one stage, that's how control was garnered over the masses, by being there with rules for all the important life events.
Anyway, apologies to the OP for straying from the point and let me pass on my congratulations and best wishes once again.

Ickle Magoo

We have guardians incase something happens to myself or my husband - as I've already explained, giving these people a special title & name means it is easier for our small children to grasp the concept that their guardians hold a seperate function to their other Aunties & Uncles, etc - that's why we "bothered".

As has also been said previously - these ceremonies were around LONG before the religions we now consider mainstream were. A person considering themselves non-religious in 2006, I assume to mean as not following the mainstream religions of this day - not that they are devoid of belief or thought on the matter. The ceremonies were adopted by modern-day religions - based on tribal, ancient ritual - nothing to do with all that church & vicar stuff we associate it with now, so who's actually aping who? I can easily understand why someone who has no affiliation to a modern-day religion would still want to celebrate with such a ritual, I don't think the practice is or should be the sole property of those who support the modern-day religions that have now adopted the practices of our ancients & added some to make it their own.

It's not you personally that makes me :mad:, I should add. It's the general opinion that if people "haven't bothered" with organised religion, they shouldn't get to "bother" with anything relating to organised religion - and many of those people are somehow unaware that the only reason they themselves bother is because their religion borrowed it from someone - who often had no religion - in the first place...:cool:

LegacyUser

Why bother??? wrote: »

I don't see why you would bother with any ceremony, what's the point? The ceremony you wish to mimic is a christian initiation, doubtless other religions have similar ceremonies, so would you not consider it slightly hypocritical to have a 'fake' ceremony? As for the godparents, again, sounds pretty bollocksy to me - why would you feel the need for the kid to have these 'special' relationships with some adults anyway. Is it just to ensure they get decent presents?
What about communion, you planning a little ceremony for that too - just so the kid won't feel left out like?

You can celebrate a child and their relationships with family and friends without it being "bollocksy." Having good relationships with adults is often what gets young people through certain situations in life.

wylo

Whats wrong with just calling them Godparents, its just words, if your not religious it shouldnt matter a damn whether theyre called godparents are not.

BenGunn

wylo wrote: »

Whats [sic] wrong with just calling them Godparents, its just words, if your not religious it shouldnt [sic] matter a damn whether theyre [sic] called godparents are not.

I agree, just get over it and call them godparents. I'm not religious either but I still have a "Christmas" tree; you mean for them to fulfil all the functions of godparents so just call them that.

SparkyLarks

Words are important.

I don;t think it is right to call people Godparents, making it out to be something special, if your not religious.

Though is not guardian the term.
But even then why do you need a term. If there part of your life and the child's life they won't need a term. If you have agreed with them that they will look after the child if something has happens to you then they will probably make the effort to be a part of the child's life,

You have asked them?

Though as an aside on the whole guardian thing, I would be careful having a friend as a guardian, in a legally binding sense. The person may be your best friend now but in 10 years who knows. Family is the way to go, if possible, though for many people this isn't possible.

though back on track. Nothing is to stopping you from having a party, that's is what a celebration is after all. Make a speech at it if you want but if there aren't any traditions, religious or otherwise that mean something to you, I woudn't bother.

Just have people around who you want in the child's life ans welcome them in.

Beruthiel

Thread from 2006