Fog Lights v Driving Lights ?

hshortt

As in the title, I want to determine weather having and using fog lights is legal or not. Not looking for opinions on use, just the fact if known and any reference if available.

Want to make sure I'm on the right side of the law with regard to them.

thanks
Howard

Wishbone Ash

Please God no! Not another fog light thread.

Stark

Howard wrote:

Want to make sure I'm on the right side of the law with regard to them.

thanks
Howard

Well you're required by law to drive with due care and consideration for other users, so if you use them when it's not foggy, then yes you are breaking the law.

Oh, and not another fog light thread Let's talk about fog horns instead. Who has fog horns attached to their cars?

hshortt

yeah sorry, first search didn't find anything, but i've flippen tons of answers now. Feel welcome to delete the thread.

Silvera

hshortt wrote:

yeah sorry, first search didn't find anything, but i've flippen tons of answers now. Feel welcome to delete the thread.

I was going to start a thread about 'Fog Lights v Driving Lights' so instead I will post the question here......

My understanding of Fog Lights is that they are always placed low in a car's bumper to use in foggy conditions. Fine.

However, I now see that Hella supply 'Driving Lights' which are also placed low in a car's bumper?????

So how can anybody tell the difference between fog lights and 'driving lights' ???

N.B. - For the record I hate when people drive around with their fogs lights on (in normal weather). They are creating a further hazard (glare) for oncoming drivers :mad:

Stephen

I will never understand the muppets that drive around with their useless 5W parking lights + blazing fog lights all the time.

Wishbone Ash

hshortt wrote:

I want to determine weather having and using fog lights is legal or not

Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963

44. (1) Every lamp (other than a lamp referred to in sub-article (3) of this article) which is fitted to a mechanically propelled vehicle or trailer and which, when lit, shows a light to the front of the vehicle shall be so fitted that—

(a) no part of its illuminated surface is more than 4 feet or, in the case of a goods vehicle registered before the 1st day of January, 1952, 4 feet and 6 inches from the ground, and

(b) (except in the case of a fog lamp) no part of its illuminated surface is less than 1 foot and 8 inches from the ground.

(2) In sub-article (1) of this article, "fog lamp" means a lamp fitted to a vehicle so as, when lit, to show a light to the front of the vehicle and intended for use only in fog or while snow is falling.

Silvera wrote:

My understanding of Fog Lights is that they are always placed low in a car's bumper to use in foggy conditions. Fine.

If they are below 1 foot 8 inches from the ground they are, by definition fog lights (see highlighted above). If they are placed above 1 foot 8 inches then they cannot legally be referred to as fog lights.

Wishbone Ash

Stephen wrote:

I will never understand the muppets that drive around with their useless 5W parking lights + blazing fog lights all the time.

They must think it's cool especially when they have those silly coloured parking lights.:rolleyes:

Just My View

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963

44. (1) Every lamp (other than a lamp referred to in sub-article (3) of this article) which is fitted to a mechanically propelled vehicle or trailer and which, when lit, shows a light to the front of the vehicle shall be so fitted that—

(a) no part of its illuminated surface is more than 4 feet or, in the case of a goods vehicle registered before the 1st day of January, 1952, 4 feet and 6 inches from the ground, and

(b) (except in the case of a fog lamp) no part of its illuminated surface is less than 1 foot and 8 inches from the ground.

(2) In sub-article (1) of this article, "fog lamp" means a lamp fitted to a vehicle so as, when lit, to show a light to the front of the vehicle and intended for use only in fog or while snow is falling.

If they are below 1 foot 8 inches from the ground they are, by definition fog lights (see highlighted above). If they are placed above 1 foot 8 inches then they cannot legally be referred to as fog lights.

It's all as clear as mud if you ask me. My reading of the regulations is as follows:
Only a fog lamp, and no other lamp, may be placed less than 1' 8" above the ground but I can't find anywhere a stipulation that says fog lights must be less than 1' 8". As far as I can make out they could be up to 4' high but no higher.
Also the does the phrase "intended for use only in fog or while snow is falling" actually place a prohibition on their use at other times? Does intended use imply an offence if used otherwise?

Neilw

My current car has "fog lights" in the lower part of the bumper with a seperate switch to turn them on, all normal I hear you say, yes!

My last car (pug 106 gti) had driving lights, these were in the same lower part of the bumper but only came on when full head lights were used.

Neil.

hshortt

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963
(2) In sub-article (1) of this article, "fog lamp" means a lamp fitted to a vehicle so as, when lit, to show a light to the front of the vehicle and intended for use only in fog or while snow is falling.

Thanks very much for a superb answer, it's a little 'foggy' on the details :rolleyes: There is no clear #Only use in fog or falling snow# or #Don't use otherwise# in the statement. But it's clear enough for me.

Cheers
Howard

Seth Brundle

the law uses the word 'intended' and is therefore left a bit vague IMO.

Wishbone Ash

Just My View wrote:

Only a fog lamp, and no other lamp, may be placed less than 1' 8" above the ground but I can't find anywhere a stipulation that says fog lights must be less than 1' 8". As far as I can make out they could be up to 4' high but no higher.

In simple language, the law states that ALL front lights may be no higher that 4 feet. They may NOT be lower that 1 foot 8 inches with the exception of fog lights which can be as low as you like.


In the NCT manual fog lights, spot lights etc. are referred to as 'Auxiliary Lights'.

Because they are not a legal requirement they are only tested to ensure that they are correctly positioned, securely mounted, correctly alligned and white or yellow. In the case of some, they are checked to ensure that they extinguish when the main beam is dipped.

The NCT manual stipulates that top of the auxiliary headlamps (e.g. long range driving lights) must be at a maximum height of 4' (1220mm) and the bottom at a minimum height of 1'8" (500mm). There is no lower minimum height given for fog lights.


The bank of lights that many heavy trucks and pick-ups have at the top of the cab are also illegal. They jusy disconnect them prior to putting the vehicle through the DOE test.

mmenarry

Driving lights (auxilliary lights) only come on with full beam. They're intended to give a better field of view (so are usually very long, thin beams, or very short, wide beams)

Fog lights are for use in fog, and *should* be aimed wide & short. If aimed anywhere else, they'll blind you, reflecting off the fog/snow.

There are different tests for the two types in the NCT.

Basically, if you can switch the lights on from any other setting than full beam, you haven't got "driving" lights.

M.

KeRbDoG

mmenarry wrote:

if you can switch the lights on from any other setting than full beam, you haven't got "driving" lights.
M.

Well put, I hope all the muppets with feckin Micras/Focus who how those feckin lights on when they dip turn them off after reading this thread.

joeblogg1

Being one of those "muppets" but with a Ssangyong Rexton not a Micra I take exception

I drive always with dipped headlights AND front fog lamps on , day and night :cool: with the knowledge that every other bl**dy muppet on the road will at least be sure to see me.

If ya dont like it --- tough

lightening

joeblogg1 wrote:

If ya dont like it --- tough

Thats illegal, you are not familiar with the rules of the road.

Tabnabs

What a nice guy, at least he admits to being a muppet!

I know in the UK drivers with fog lamps on in non foggy weather conditions will receive a fine. Simple law, why aren't we doing the same here?

As an aside, I know from experience front fog lamps in heavy falling snow will do nothing but reflect the light back at the driver and blind him :eek: All you will see are pretty white flakes and if your lucky, an obstacle, as you slide effortlessly into it.

joeblogg1

Dyflin wrote:

As an aside, I know from experience front fog lamps in heavy falling snow will do nothing but reflect the light back at the driver and blind him :eek: All you will see are pretty white flakes and if your lucky, an obstacle, as you slide effortlessly into it.

Heavy Snow + Ireland : Never happens so why bring it up?

It BeeMee

joeblogg1 wrote:

Being one of those "muppets" but with a Ssangyong Rexton not a Micra I take exception

I drive always with dipped headlights AND front fog lamps on , day and night :cool: with the knowledge that every other bl**dy muppet on the road will at least be sure to see me.

If ya dont like it --- tough

Are the lights on the Ssangyong that bad?
If the "muppets" can't see a yoke that size bearing down on them, they need a new dog.

joeblogg1

It BeeMee wrote:

Are the lights on the Ssangyong that bad?
If the "muppets" can't see a yoke that size bearing down on them, they need a new dog.

Thanks I needed a good bl**dy laugh today and your reply did the trick

I think that the muppets guide dogs cannot see out due to the size of the furry dice attached to the rear view mirror on the Micra or else when I'm behind them their vision is impaired by the rear spoiler on the Micra which has been thoughtfully loaned from the Starship Enterprice by Jean Luc Picard

Mojito

I drove down on the N3 from Enniskillen this morning and in places there was heavy fog/light fog and no fog. Not once was I blinded by anyone’s fog lights.

I think if anything you posters who complain about people driving with fog lights on should be more concerned about those drivers who drive in bad conditions without ANY lights on and there were a good few of them this morning! :eek:

endplate

I use mine quite regluarly as I never seem to be dazzled by other road users using them. Maybe those of you that don't like them should not look at them while driving.

It BeeMee

endplate wrote:

I use mine quite regluarly as I never seem to be dazzled by other road users using them.

Surely you've a better excuse than that?

endplate

It BeeMee wrote:

Surely you've a better excuse than that?

Nope don't need an excuse. It's simple don't look at other cars head/fog lights and nobody will be dazzled.

Oh and it is more worrying that some people don't even turn on any lights in poor conditions

lightening

endplate wrote:

Nope don't need an excuse. It's simple...

Why is there confusion here, its illegal, it's in the rule book, do you people have full licenses?

"When in doubt, use your headlamps (dipped or main beam, as appropriate). Fog lights should only be used during fog and should be turned off at all other times."

I have seen Gardai pull over people who drive around with their fog lights on when they shouldn't have them on (front and back ones)

dahamsta

Could a moderator please create a Foglights Good Foglights Bad template for situations like this? It'd save a lot of time.

It BeeMee

lightening wrote:

I have seen Gardai pull over people who drive around with their fog lights on when they shouldn't have them on (front and back ones)

I've never seen that happen (unfortunately), though when I was stopped at a checkpoint once I asked the guard to tell the car behind me to turn off his foglights.

There was rumours at once stage it would become a points offence : pity that was never followed through. They'd make a fortune.

colm_mcm

Yawn

endplate

It seems a shame to have fog lights on the car and not been able to use cos of a few law enforcers on this forum say so:D

Stark

If you like I could come round and smash your fog lights for you

endplate

Stark wrote:

If you like I could come round and smash your fog lights for you

Is that the best arguement you can come up with ohh I'm scared no wait I'm not I think I'll use my fog lights again tomorrow. Tell you what if you can figure out which car I'm driving you can try and smash them you big brave boy:rolleyes:

Stark

endplate wrote:

Is that the best arguement you can come up

Is that the best troll you can come up with

overdriver

Dyflin wrote:

I know in the UK drivers with fog lamps on in non foggy weather conditions will receive a fine. Simple law, why aren't we doing the same here?

Oh, I long for the day...

endplate

Stark wrote:

Is that the best troll you can come up with

if you say so

joeblogg1

Mojito wrote:

I drove down on the N3 from Enniskillen this morning and in places there was heavy fog/light fog and no fog. Not once was I blinded by anyone’s fog lights.

I think if anything you posters who complain about people driving with fog lights on should be more concerned about those drivers who drive in bad conditions without ANY lights on and there were a good few of them this morning! :eek:

I go for a walk around the town every night around 9 pm and almost every night I have to gesticulate wildly to get the attention of a driver who is driving around oblivious to the fact that they have forgotten to put on their lights.

I travel every evening home along the M50 behind trucks with rubbish liughts or cars with all the bulbs or fuses gone so they have no lights at the back

People in this country drive almost every day in poor visibility but never seem to check if their lights work

There was talk some time ago about making the use f dipped lights mandatory 24/7 and I think that this is a good idea.

As for front fog lamps I still maintain that they do no harm but make the vehicle more visible , particularly over the Irish winter months

lightening

joeblogg1 wrote:

As for front fog lamps I still maintain that they do no harm

What ever you maintain is irrelevant, its illegal. And illegal for a reason.

overdriver

Exactly.
I must be imagining all those cars dazzing me with their fogs on when it's not foggy, and the SUV's blinding me with their fogs from behind. :rolleyes:

You're quite correct, it's illegal FOR A REASON.

danger_mouse_tm

allright after talking to a few of my trucker buddies about them driving with their fog lights on i have come to a few conclusions. Some are driving with them on because "it looks cool" These are usually the truckers that have so much rubbish in their windows that they wouldn't be able to tell if they were on or not cos they cant see out the windscreen anyway. The other type like that warm glow that shines four feet around them. I was told if there weren't so many potholes on the road then they wouldn't need them. I say to those drivers that by the time the fog lights have picked out something that the ordinary dipped headlights havn't shown up then at any speed over 30 mph - they have already driven over it! I flippen hate fog lights. It seems the smaller the car the worse they are eg micra! One driver i spoke to however, told me that while driving in France one day with his fog lights on he was pulled over my the cops and made pay 200 euro on the spot fine for having them on. Personally i think that they do dazzle my sensitive eyes. I can ignore them to some extent when driving, however when i am joining a main road from a minor junction and a car is apprroaching with his fog lights on ( in particular from my right) i have to be even more careful ( because fog lights are not dipped) that i am not lamped out of seeing a cyclist or pedestrian coming towards me. Nuff said

Mojito

On my way home from work to Lucan today there was a Garda check point on both sides of the road. 3 cars had their fog lights and I had my front ones on I didn't get pulled over and they didn't get pulled over.

I'd bet more people are blinded by drivers who have there dipped lights adjusted to the highest setting than someone driving with there fog lights on.

Stark

Driving up from Cork to Dublin this evening, the lights coming against me were a nightmare. I had to slow way down in order to see bends that were coming up. I wonder how many cases of drivers going off the road/crashing into trees etc. are due to drivers being blinded by oncoming lights.

oleras

Stark wrote:

Driving up from Cork to Dublin this evening, the lights coming against me were a nightmare. I had to slow way down in order to see bends that were coming up. I wonder how many cases of drivers going off the road/crashing into trees etc. are due to drivers being blinded by oncoming lights.

were these front fog lights ? and in answer to your question, i would say very few......

johnnyrotten

Bottom line here folks - Front fog lights are for FOG! get over it!

Gatster

...Or this pr!ck this morning on M50 who drove like a w@nker and when I flashed him beacause he nearly took the front of my car off put his fog light on from the start of the M50 until the toll (when I let someone in front of me and was no longer directly behind him). So what precisely is the mentality of a tool like this

overdriver

But he's driving a JEEP, silly! He can drive how he wants cos he's BIGGER ( inset caveman sound here...).


@Oleras: Sorry, you're wrong. the fogs are the worst offenders, particularly when one is on a bend, and the oncoming vehicle has fogs on. The angle makes the dazzing worse. Not all fogs dazzle, but a strong percentage do. Have some cinsideration, PLEASE, and turn them off, and don't resort to telling people they're imagining it, or wrong, or whatever. People here have told you they affect their driving, so is it too much to ask?
Sheesh!

oleras

overdriver wrote:

But he's driving a JEEP, silly! He can drive how he wants cos he's BIGGER ( inset caveman sound here...).


@Oleras: Sorry, you're wrong. the fogs are the worst offenders, particularly when one is on a bend, and the oncoming vehicle has fogs on. The angle makes the dazzing worse. Not all fogs dazzle, but a strong percentage do. Have some cinsideration, PLEASE, and turn them off, and don't resort to telling people they're imagining it, or wrong, or whatever. People here have told you they affect their driving, so is it too much to ask?
Sheesh!

Please amuse me and point out where i am "wrong" ?

Jimoslimos

Driving up from Cork to Dublin this evening, the lights coming against me were a nightmare. I had to slow way down in order to see bends that were coming up. I wonder how many cases of drivers going off the road/crashing into trees etc. are due to drivers being blinded by oncoming lights.

oleras wrote:

were these front fog lights ? and in answer to your question, i would say very few......

Well I'd imagine that not many drivers are blinded by oncoming REAR fog lights :rolleyes:

oleras

Jimoslimos wrote:

Well I'd imagine that not many drivers are blinded by oncoming REAR fog lights :rolleyes:

said it before and ill say it again, nearly 13 years of driving and get worse glare from xenon bulbs than front fog lights.....must be my eyes......:rolleyes:

endplate

oleras wrote:

said it before and ill say it again, nearly 13 years of driving and get worse glare from xenon bulbs than front fog lights.....must be my eyes......:rolleyes:

100% agree with you

Mojito

oleras wrote:

said it before and ill say it again, nearly 13 years of driving and get worse glare from xenon bulbs than front fog lights.....must be my eyes......:rolleyes:

I agree with this too and also drivers leaving on there full head lights.

When people complain about fog lights its normally the rear fog lights they complain about as these are up to 30 times brighter than normal rear lights and can block out when the car with them on is breaking because of the glare. That is why most new cars have 2 fog light settings one for the front and one for the rear.

Even the Gatster picture's are of rear fog lights

Front fog lights beams are aimed low and wide, so if you are blinded by every front fog light you see. You're either lying or have a problem with your eyes.

mukki

endplate wrote:

100% agree with you

Very Annoying Very Annoying