How to pick an Architect?

AlanD

Do I even need an architect?

We live in a semi-detached house with a decent sized corner garden. We want to extend our downstairs quarters out the side and back so that we will have a playroom, office and utility, all while keeping our kitchen/dining room.

We don't want a builder to come along and fire up something he thinks will work. We want something designed that will meet our current and future needs without taking up huge garden space and something that would meet planning requirements. I want to know what is going to be built, what materials will be used and how long it will take.

Is an architect for me? If so, how do I chose an architect? If i pick some off the golden pages, what do I look for?

Unchartered territory for me, so all help appreciated.

natbraddy

an architect should be able to help you with drawing you a plan which you would be able to see before you commit to any building work
and should work hand in hand with you to reach the right design
if it is only a small extension a builder would be able to draw or design something suitable also with your input
at the end of the day it is entirely up to you what you want building no one else
another job an architect will help you with is checking on the progress of the builders like for instance checking foundations and quality of the build
he also can decide when to release payments to the builder and sign off there work at the end which will be needed if you where to sell in the future
as a rule around dublin 40 sq meters of single storey is allowed without planning as long as you can retain 25sq meters of garden
any architect who is registered would do when it comes to choosing
the best advice i can give you is that when you are ready to build get as many quotes as possible off as many builders as you can and when you choose one go and see work he has done before and talk to his customers
hope this helps

Mellor

natbraddy wrote:

as a rule around dublin 40 sq meters of single storey is allowed without planning as long as you can retain 25sq meters of garden

Its actually 40 sq.m over two stories. And there are other conditions too, like garden and boundary.
Know it probably doesn't help the original poster but it might help someone else.

muffler

Not nit picking Mellor but natbrady is right in what he said about the 40 sq. metres. You are right of course if the OP wanted a 2 storey building but you can use up the 40 sq. metre quota on the ground floor only.

The OP needs to know also that planning permission is required as they intend to extend to the side of the house as well as the rear.

AlanD

good advice there folks. I think an architect is definitely what I need to get. I suppose with a builder, I wouldn't know how to lay out the requirements well enough for him to put together what we want. Plus I wouldn't know how to get plans together in the right way for planning permission.

Also, we want more designed than just the walls and the roof. I want materials chosen, timeline set out, kitchen designed....I suppose all the internal details aswell as the external structural details.

I'm answering my own query really. But then, do I need to review their work prior to acquiring their services?

I will definitely review a builder's work prior to hiring too. Also, how open are builders to building in penalties to a contract? In the case of them failing to produce quality work or if they have huge delays that affect us. Will a lot of builders run a mile from a contract that nails their word to the mast?

Viking House

Hi Alan

I am a builder working in Dublin. You haven't mentioned anything about future proofing your house from rising energy costs which is very important.
Most Architects I meet don't know how to eliminate coldbridging completly in houses and extensions. These are the areas where your building leaks heat.

AlanD

Good point and it's something I forgot to mention. Energy efficiency is something we want to incorporate in to the build. We want to make room for a wood pellet boiler in place of our existing gas boiler (or keep gas as a back up). I think there are a lot of details that only an architect would be able to address and document sufficiently for a builder to execute.

muffler

Viking House wrote:

Most Architects I meet don't know how to eliminate coldbridging completly in houses and extensions.

And architects are saying the same about builders despite the fact that the builders have it on print in front of them

disgruntled

First of all in relation to choosing an architect I would suggest contacting the RIAI in preference to picking somebody out of the yellow pages. http://www.riai.ie/?id=5761 Perhaps speak to a few and look at some of their previous projects before deciding who you are going to go with.

Secondly in relation to the issue of exempted development which has already been touched on, this leaflet should give you a rough idea of what you will be able to do without having to go for planning.

Best of luck with the extension Alan

Builderwoman!

If you are looking for an architect through RIAI remember you will be paying RIAI rates which are a percentage cost of your build. Works out very expensive! To keep costs down you could get someone with CAD skills to draw up the plans and have an engineer sign off on the project.

Idleater

Builderwoman! wrote:

If you are looking for an architect through RIAI remember you will be paying RIAI rates which are a percentage cost of your build.

Maybe so, but you are given a full contract which is stood over by not only the architect but also the Association.

I.E. you don't get the cowboy factor, because they are whittled out before hand.

At the end of the day, as the customer, you should make sure you get what you pay for. With an RIAI architect, you are pretty much assured that of the costs in advance and they have a defined independant structure.

L.

Kashkai

nereid wrote:

Maybe so, but you are given a full contract which is stood over by not only the architect but also the Association.

I.E. you don't get the cowboy factor, because they are whittled out before hand.

At the end of the day, as the customer, you should make sure you get what you pay for. With an RIAI architect, you are pretty much assured that of the costs in advance and they have a defined independant structure.

L.

I had a RIAI architect engaged to draw up my plans, and oversee the build.

His original idea was great and suited us but when he "developed" the idea, he then told us it wouldn't work and then he went on to present us with more and more ridiculous plans that (a) didn't include what we wanted (i.e. 4 beds, 2 sitting rooms) and (b) had a roof that had five different ups and downs to it so it would be "a striking feature" to quote him.

When I told him that he was ignoring our wishes and that we didn't like his roof design, he got all hoighty toighty and went into a huff. However, he came back to us a few months later looking for money but I refused to pay him as he didn't do the job he was requested. In the end, I drafted my own plan, and he advised us on what was needed for the planners. We then parted company.

If I ever go down this road again, I wouldn't get all fussed about engaging someone whose registered with the RIAI. I've had a bad experience with one of their members and so has my brother and a colleague of mine.

If there is a next time, I'll draft my own plans as I know what I want and I won't allow some architect to try and shove his airy fairy ideas down my throat.

Mellor

Prosperous Dave wrote:

I had a RIAI architect engaged to draw up my plans, and oversee the build.

His original idea was great and suited us but when he "developed" the idea, he then told us it wouldn't work and then he went on to present us with more and more ridiculous plans that (a) didn't include what we wanted (i.e. 4 beds, 2 sitting rooms) and (b) had a roof that had five different ups and downs to it so it would be "a striking feature" to quote him.

When I told him that he was ignoring our wishes and that we didn't like his roof design, he got all hoighty toighty and went into a huff. However, he came back to us a few months later looking for money but I refused to pay him as he didn't do the job he was requested. In the end, I drafted my own plan, and he advised us on what was needed for the planners. We then parted company.

If I ever go down this road again, I wouldn't get all fussed about engaging someone whose registered with the RIAI. I've had a bad experience with one of their members and so has my brother and a colleague of mine.

If there is a next time, I'll draft my own plans as I know what I want and I won't allow some architect to try and shove his airy fairy ideas down my throat.

That can happen with alot of architects that try and "express" their design too much. These designs can loook great and really work, but they can also, like in your case, run into problems with buildability (something architects lack knowledge in alot of the time) and planning (some designs are just too mad.)

To the OP. If you want an design, that is a striking feature in its suroundings. One that may feature in magazines. Get an architect.

If you want a simple design, matching the existing house, design and finishes. Then have a go at it your self to save money. Or if you dont think you could. I'll do the planning premission for you, depending on how close you are. I'll sort it from design to grant (or refusal) of premission. Amd you take over the overseeing of build, or employ somebody to do it. Good construction company will be able to help here.

Neverends

If you don't have any building experience or knowledge yourself I'd definitiely try and get a good architect and that means one that someone you know has used and found to be proactive, good at catching the builder on things he did wrong or left out, nice to deal with, knowledgeable on building issues, able to recommend good builders and subcontractors etc. Some people are really lucky and get honest reliable builders who need little watching. Many others get builders who are looking to cut corners at every chance, are juggling your job with five + others with not enough workers to go round, have no commitment to schedule etc etc....... on the offchance that you end up with the latter you'll be glad to have an effctive person managing the project for you as well as specing it all out in advance. I've seen 2 similar extensions on our road take 6 mths for one and 2 years for the other in recent times and would want to make sure I did all I could to be involved with the former!! Good architects can negotiate effective contracts re schedule and cost overruns...... I think finding a good architect and having them help you find a good builder are the most important steps in the building process. RIAI or not may be less important, just get good references, see what work they've done lately.

Breezzzzze

Because the extension you propose is to the side as well as the rear, it isn't exempt, and you'll have to apply for planning. Remember too that you'll need an architect to give you a certificate of building regulations compliance at the end, or you may have trouble if you ever sell the house. I'm not an architect myself, but I would definately get one if I were you.

AlanD

I totally agree. We will definitely go around to visit some architects and get some information about what they can deliver.

We've also come in to contact with a draughtsman who reckons he can do all what an architect can do, but for cheaper. I'm skeptical, but we'll have a chat with him anyway.

Thanks for all your excellent advice. But keep it coming if you have any more pearls of wisdom.

Actually, in terms of building timeline. How long would it normally take to build a single story extension?

looksee

I had the same experience as Prosperous Dave, asked an architect to design an extension, he came up with a great plan, though I asked several times in the course of it if it could be done within the price we had specified, and he said it could. He had included a very pretty roof with complicated apexes which I queried as they looked expensive. Anyway he gave us an estimate of what it should cost to build (in writing) and outline plans, and organised planning permission.

We paid him for this stage as agreed. We had agreed that we would pay for that stage anyway (about half the total) and if it was coming in at an affordable price he could go ahead and do detailed plans. So he went ahead with the plans then he and we looked for builders.

We got I think 4 or 5 quotes and in every case the builders quoted two and a half times the architect's estimate. A couple of them laughed outright at the estimate he had given. We refused to pay for the second part of the job on the basis that the plans were no use to us. We subsequently had a builder do a simplified job on the basis of a sketch and discussion. We were happy with the job, but I still feel that an architect should be employed for anything more than very simple jobs, depending on the customer's skills and experience of building.

I think that most people building onto an ordinary, bog-standard estate house (which we were) can't usually afford ambitious architectural features, they are not going to add over the odds to the value of the house, and can look rather silly tacked onto a 30 year old basic house. We had approached 3 architects and they all seemed to want to express themselves rather than do what we wanted. I like to watch the Grand Designs programme and would love to build something really interesting and unusual, but we have to live in the real world.:)

natbraddy

all great advice but remember the more leg work you put in now before you start any build the easier it will end up for you.
shopping for architects or builders should be treated as shopping for anything else the more you talk to and see the easier it will be to make your mind up and try to get as many recommendations as you can off there customers after all it is a lot of money you are going to spend and all good builders or architects who have nothing to hide will have no problem giving you a phone number or address of someone they have done work for.
all the best keep us posted on how you get on

muffler

looksee wrote:

We had approached 3 architects and they all seemed to want to express themselves rather than do what we wanted.

I've said it before and I'll say it again that most architects are a bit like those half crazy chefs you see on TV who just want to experiment with a bit of this and that thrown in to the mix and let the customer (or client) pay for and suffer the consequences.

Unless you want something either really complicated or out of character with surrounding landscape then avoid the architects and get yourself a good technician

Jambo

muffler wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again that most architects are a bit like those half crazy chefs you see on TV who just want to experiment with a bit of this and that thrown in to the mix and let the customer (or client) pay for and suffer the consequences.

From reading all the comments and various magazines the above seems to be the general concensus , plus they also seem to under-estimate final costings ..

Fingers crossed for me as I have my 1st visit to my architect on Monday I am hoping that the brief Im giving him is fairly specific that he wont deviate from what I require !!

Mellor

muffler wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again that most architects are a bit like those half crazy chefs you see on TV who just want to experiment with a bit of this and that thrown in to the mix and let the customer (or client) pay for and suffer the consequences.

Unless you want something either really complicated or out of character with surrounding landscape then avoid the architects and get yourself a good technician

Thats a pretty good description. Like those chefs, alot are crazy, but you often find a Gordon Ramsey. Alot of archtecys i've seen like to sway from the brief. Suppose they feel that if you sketch the shape of the house you want, you did half the work, so they add their touch to the project.
As muggler said a good technician can often do a better job for the client with regards sticking to the brief and esp the regs.

Builderwoman!

Had similar experience to Prosperous Dave and others regarding two architects! Employ them if you want to have an "airy fairy" design or to be able to have it said that you had an architect design your new pad or extension!! Our experience of them (and talking to others) wasn't very positive at all!

We had two architects (same firm) draw up plans for our house and granny flat. Both plans were very unrealistic in terms of designing a house for the elderly and children....our good sitting room for entertaining was upstairs...okay we had a nice view of the mountains across the fields but..we had elderly people in the house who could not use the stairs due to ill health and whom we were accommodating with bedrooms downstairs...so when we had mutual family visitors them joining in would have been impossible! Also imagine trying to bring babies up and to drag cups of coffee and drinks and nibblies upstairs when you had guests..we would have have to get a butler!!

They could not understand why I didn't want my back door coming in through my utility!

They knew nothing of velux sizes, solar panels, black pvc or argon filled windows.

They didn't think that granite would be a good feature to include in a house.

They couldn't see why we wouldn't get planning for a two story house on a bungalow bliss and dormer bungalow filled road!

Both architects knew nothing about insulation, cat 5/6 cabling, tiling/slate options etc...I could go on. They weren't able to offer us any solutions to real issues of concern to us regarding heating..we knew more than they did in that regard!

Also architect told us that it was going to cost us way over our budget to build the house we desired...and that self build was impossible! We are now happily living in our house which we did self build and within our budget..plus our house is much bigger than they were designing! Ok we have a bit of painting still to do and some landscaping but it's a very comfortable house with a very high spec solar and woodpellet heating system, highly insulated and built with the future in mind.

The designs they came up with was small and very unsuitable for our needs and did not fit the criteria that we discussed at our initial meetings. Their fee was going to be in the region of 30k!! When we started asking and suggesting changes to suit our needs they said that was not the kind of service they offered. They wanted to design it not us and we really didn't need to have input into it...we argued that this was not possible in nice but firm way...and we parted company with them.

Got an almost qualified architect who was recommended to us and he was brill! Said that he would try to accommodate everything we needed and that if we were making major mistakes he would stop us but pointed out the need for our input as we have to live in the house. His design suits us brilliantly and we're loving it!

muffler

Mellor wrote:

As muggler said

Oi !!! I'm no muggler. I am just happy muffing my way around

muffler

Builderwoman! wrote:

Got an almost qualified architect who was recommended to us and he was brill! Said that he would try to accommodate everything we needed and that if we were making major mistakes he would stop us but pointed out the need for our input as we have to live in the house. His design suits us brilliantly and we're loving it!

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head there.

A lot of architects forget about this very important matter that the people, their clients, have to go and live in and make a home of their creation.

Preparing a design for a house is a 2 pronged approach involving the client and designer. Personally I listen to what my clients tell me and make suggestions and offer advice as to how they can improve different aspects of their house but I will always leave the final call to them unless it has something to do with building regulations where I just insist that there is no discussion on the matter.

Idleater

muffler wrote:

Preparing a design for a house is a 2 pronged approach involving the client and designer. ... but I will always leave the final call to them unless it has something to do with building regulations where I just insist that there is no discussion on the matter.

I agree with this, and this is exactly the way I have dealt with my architect. Got a nice airy fairy design too.

I had a drawing in my mind, and on paper, but never showed it to him. I specified what I wanted and left him for two weeks. After that we met up and he had come up with something very similar.

L.

Builderwoman!

Muffler, glad to see there's a least one or two more architects out there that listen to their clients. First two we had were a nightmare. The third guy was a dream to work with. Glad to see that you agree that some architects are a little too interested in design rather than the client's needs. I totally agree it's a two pronged process. So important that the client's needs and lifestyle are accommodated, particularly in today's busy home atmos that we all seem to have.

Nereid, I don't mind airy fairy as long as it suits the person or family's lifestyle and budget. Well done!

Mellor

muffler wrote:

Oi !!! I'm no muggler. I am just happy muffing my way around

Sorry about that, but the F and G are next to each other on the keyboard.