Shamanism

odonnell

I dont normally start new posts or post much at all anyway, however, Ive recently had reason to start coming here more frequently so I thought i may aswell post this and see what comes back.

Shamanism.

In Scotland this is one of those areas that sits nicely under the surface and can be found lurking in bars at the weekends normally on every third Sunday of the month in a rented room under the main bar. A lot of the time the practitioner (i hate this term) has their own setup and holds classes (i hate that term) for the initiates from a big old georgian room pretty close to the local university. Normally the people who attend are in their mid 30s to early 40s and the practitioner is greying, has a name like silver-moon, and wears sandals.

So its difficult to take yourself seriously when youre actively looking for the right path and happen to stumble upon shamanic as the path that fits you perfectly.

A long time ago i stumbled upon just such a setup in Dublin and have never been able to take shamanic seriously again, instead reverting to my old upbringing of spiritualism (Scottish belief system, im not sure youre all familiar with it) though never really being comfortable with certain aspects. Lately i find myself turning to Shamanic again and I was wondering - what are the thoughts on this topic? I suppose this thread could be used as leads if anyone has any...

I have struggled to overcome the self-consciousness of it all, and i wonder...has anyone else had this trouble? How did you overcome that in order to focus and progress????

Zillah

What exactly do you mean when you say Shamanic? Are you referring to the existence of a single leader/Shaman figure? Or the invocation of natural spirits? Shamanism can be found in virtually any belief system that has a spiritual aspect to it.

odonnell

Shamanic? the pracise of shamanic teachings. The following of the shamanic path. Its just a term ive become accustomed to using regardless of syntax im afraid - druidic, shamanic, ..... i realise theres a shamanic equivalent in most religions or belief structures - in my experience they all share some common ground of being mostly grounded in prophecising and healing, though obviously google could trip me up.

Zillah

Alright, try it this way: In what way is the Shamanic path different to Spiritualism?

odonnell

Spiritualism nearlyalways is based upon the woship of God in the christian sense. It is based around a christian framework and its mission is to provide proof of survival (life after death). Attending spiritualist church is very nearly the same as attending sunday mass although instead of confession, you normally ave some meditative time, some reading, a invited spirirualist medium or healer will do their thing....And so on.

Its the christian framework that doesnt fit so well and never has. It can of course be left out and in your practising you have the option of substituting specific words for when God is mentioned, but its hard to feel comfortable with anything that is so prefabricated, and thats not to mention the constant flow of frauds we have to suffer in our spiritualist churches back home.

Shamanism on the other hand - whilst there are equivalents in every religion, in its basist form is mostly devoid of worship as such, and is more about being in touch with natural influences and the expansion of consciousness in order to obtain enlightenment. As a path, it feels more comfortable personally, but i feel a person following the shamanic wouldnt necessarily suffer the same self doubting and 'consumerism' that spiritualism now seems to be subject to.

My personal reasons for favouring one over the other though are myriad...so...

Nevyn

Why is this here and not in the spirituality forum ?
or why did you choose this forum and not the spirituality forum if you felt that it ws not suited to there or the paganism forum ?

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bos/bos613.htm

2. What is Shamanism?
Shamanism is classified by anthropologists as an archaic
magico-religious phenomenon in which the shaman is the great master
of ecstasy. Shamanism itself, was defined by the late Mircea Eliade
as a technique of ecstasy. A shaman may exhibit a particular magical
specialty (such as control over fire, wind or magical flight). When a
specialization is present the most common is as a healer. The
distinguishing characteristic of shamanism is its focus on an
ecstatic trance state in which the soul of the shaman is believed to
leave the body and ascend to the sky (heavens) or descend into the
earth (underworld). The shaman makes use of spirit helpers, which
he or she communicates with, all the while retaining control over
his or her own consciousness. (Examples of possession occur, but
are the exception, rather than the rule.) It is also important to
note that while most shamans in traditional societies are men,
either women or men may and have become shamans.

Getting past the self conciousness and the rational logic parts of the mind and learning to accept and know that your experiences are real and vaild for you
even if they are only in your own mind and soul can be difficult.

Sometimes it can take getting hit over the head with experiences until you do accept and you do it with your rational brain and logic for this is how things are for you and your world and your experiences.

odonnell

bad choice of forums, tbh i didnt really consider it - just that this is where i mostly spend time, but yeah i should have posted in the spirituality forum in hindsight. Thanks for pointing this out.

Nevyn

Well maybe a passing Parrotsnormal mod will move it.

It can be hard to fully accept that the inner and outer jouneying experiences are as read as the keyboard infront of you and yes you are right there can be a lot of showman shamans out there.

I think guidance is needed but it can be hard to find the right people to work with esp if you are going into what may be tramatic soul retrieval.

odonnell

Absolutely, Its a dangerous route alright, but I do believe its a ultimately fulfilling one. Moreso i dont believe it to be something 'chosen' as such, and i have the firm belief that it is something that is already set in the future for you, and always has been with you through past lives. All it takes is the catalyst or the right teacher to come along...who was it that said when the student is ready, the teacher will appear? (dont dare say mr miagi).

My main issue with anything in this field is twofold. 1) i have a tendancy to be very analytical and this can tear down anything ive learned to that point as all it takes is for a slight creeping self-doubt based in reality to make me reassess and pick to pieces all thats gone before, and eventually cast it asside. Spiritualism is different here as it was always about as comfortable as a shoe that was 4 sizes too small if you follow. The inner journey has always perplexed me upo consideration, as i just dont seem able to accept fully what my instincts tell me at the crunch.
2) Being able to let go of reservations long enough to progress is an awful swine of a problem. Personally ive been held back for years due to this problem, and often find unable to function in a development circle due to the 'eyes looking at you' syndrom.

But hey.... no path worth taking is a path easily tread eh? The first step i guess is essentially to follow the same route one would with spiritualism and mediumship - find a mentor, and stick with them. Tricky tricky. If anyone is in the know here, now would be an excellent time for those links

Nevyn

Finding guidance/teacher/mentor can be one of the hardest things,
it is very tricky esp if you are having issues listening to your inner voices and insticts and as one good platitude deserves another " If you meet budha on the road, kill him".

Anyone who claims to know all and be all and charges a large fee for a list of courses as long as thier arm I would be wary of.

I also believe that certain events are predestined on someone journey and that the saying 'once a witch always a witch' can apply to a lot of paths and practices.

Shanamism is not just the preserve of Native American and other far flung races.
There is also european practices but they were often asumed into other paths along side other practices and skill sets.
The origins of sympathic magics and the hunt are shamanistic.

stevenmu

Thread moved to spirituality

odonnell

Thaedydal wrote:

Finding guidance/teacher/mentor can be one of the hardest things,
it is very tricky esp if you are having issues listening to your inner voices and insticts and as one good platitude deserves another " If you meet budha on the road, kill him".

Anyone who claims to know all and be all and charges a large fee for a list of courses as long as thier arm I would be wary of.

I also believe that certain events are predestined on someone journey and that the saying 'once a witch always a witch' can apply to a lot of paths and practices.

Shanamism is not just the preserve of Native American and other far flung races.
There is also european practices but they were often asumed into other paths along side other practices and skill sets.
The origins of sympathic magics and the hunt are shamanistic.

For certain, all of the above... and Id say the closest thing to Shamanism in the native american sense we have as Europeans (uh, Uk and Ireland residents and Scandaniavians to a degree) would be Druidry, and correct me if Im wrong please - Druidry being the oldest and basist form of modern Paganism and all that encompasses? To my knowledge there are a lot of parallels to be had between UK Druidry and Native American Shamanism in that they are both very much about being connected to the earth & ether, seeking enlightenment through natural means and spiritual guidance, vision and communication with the elders etc... all very airy fairy stuff to read it here i suppose, but no more so than Christianity laid out on paper i feel.

At any rate the same problem persists - expensive courses and week long workshops are certainly off-putting for anyone, as straight away, it screams CAPITALIST SWINE!

Is there any other way?

Nevyn

odonnell wrote:

For certain, all of the above... and Id say the closest thing to Shamanism in the native american sense we have as Europeans (uh, Uk and Ireland residents and Scandaniavians to a degree) would be Druidry, and correct me if Im wrong please - Druidry being the oldest and basist form of modern Paganism and all that encompasses?

Nope, it would infact be shamanism.
If you go back far enough you will see british laws being passes to outlaw the
wearing of animal skins and headdresses ( anters ect ) as they were part of the shamanic hunt rituals.

odonnell wrote:

To my knowledge there are a lot of parallels to be had between UK Druidry and Native American Shamanism in that they are both very much about being connected to the earth & ether, seeking enlightenment through natural means and spiritual guidance, vision and communication with the elders etc...

That would be the majority of pagan/earth based spirituality not just druidry,
and some of the eastern esotric paths as well.

odonnell wrote:

all very airy fairy stuff to read it here I suppose,

Not really and certainly not to those that live thier lives or strive to live thier lives in such a fashion.

odonnell wrote:

At any rate the same problem persists - expensive courses and week long workshops are certainly off-putting for anyone, as straight away, it screams CAPITALIST SWINE!

The same things can be said about wicca, witchcraft and druid courses.

odonnell wrote:

Is there any other way?

There is the oldest most traditional way
Ask your gods, guides and spirits for help on this and listen and be guided by them.
Keep seeking and searching and go to places where you may get in contact with people who you can share with and learn from each other or learn about others from them.

Not everything is ment to be gogglible.
and after saying that here is a link that might be helpful,
http://www.meetup.com/cities/ie/dublin/.

Many of the aspects of shamanism have been incorperated into other paths,
some shamanic practices are skills that those on those paths will use.
Like a carpenter using a chisel or a hammer depending on what is needed, or they may know someone who maybe a step or marker on your path.