Lik-Sang responds to Sony's 'sour grapes'

thebman

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=69178

it is considered to be beneficial for consumers (free trade).

That is probably the part I agree with. We live in an International market because of the Internet and this region locking is something that harms consumers.

Companies benefit from exploiting cheap labour around the world and the result is higher profits for them, not cheaper products for us. Ideally fair wages should be applied to all but each country governs those laws.

As someone else said, if companies insist on people only buying products within their region, it shouldn't be a problem if those regions insist on the product being manufactured in that region. If they want to live in a region locked world, we should give it them.

Another user on eurogamer said this different markets is the reason why the third world gets ripped off on medicine.

personally I hope that as the Internet becomes more popular for online shopping consumers start to become aware of these shenanigan's by companies.

projectmayhem

A bunch of people, including two highly pregnant women, have lost their basis for existence because of corporate lawsuits for something that is not only regarded as lawful in Hong Kong

wait, so two pregnant women (why that matters in this is beyond me) and a few others have decided to kill themselves over this? :rolleyes:

and lawful in Hong Kong != lawful in Europe...

thebman

projectmayhem wrote:

wait, so two pregnant women (why that matters in this is beyond me) and a few others have decided to kill themselves over this? :rolleyes:

and lawful in Hong Kong != lawful in Europe...

Yeah I know but that bit was good for a laugh. I'm thinking something was lost in translation and they just meant they are out of work.

Wertz

"Basis for existence" is an obviously literal translation for "means of living"...

As for what it matters that they're pregnant....well loosing your job with a baby on the way isn't the best of financial moves. A tad bit whiny and I hardly think that Sony, bastards and all that they are, made this move solely to deprive newly borns of their nappies...

TheAlmightyArse

No, but they did seek to increase their profits by driving another company out of business, a direct and obvious result of which is putting people out of work. It's a fair point, even if Lik-Sang is making it in a rather manipulative way. The pregnant women probably don't think it's too whiny.

Wertz

Hey I'm not defending them here at all!
But people out of work are people out of work, whther they be pregnant or not....I just think it was PR overkill on Lik Sang's part to include that detail.
I have the utmost sympathy with the firm and their staff and whilst a big fan of Sony in the past, have slowly come round to hating them and will be avoiding many of their products due to the whole mess surrounding the PS3...

TheAlmightyArse

Wertz wrote:

But people out of work are people out of work, whther they be pregnant or not....I just think it was PR overkill on Lik Sang's part to include that detail.

You're right, and like I said, it was pretty manipulative of Lik-Sang to point out their pregnant employees. (But no doubt Sony's arrogance on top of everything else is a bit annoying.)

thebman

Wertz wrote:

Hey I'm not defending them here at all!
But people out of work are people out of work, whther they be pregnant or not....I just think it was PR overkill on Lik Sang's part to include that detail.
I have the utmost sympathy with the firm and their staff and whilst a big fan of Sony in the past, have slowly come round to hating them and will be avoiding many of their products due to the whole mess surrounding the PS3...

Well they just included the pregnant woman part to try to give a more negative image of Sony by putting an image of it in peoples minds giving the whole thing a human angle that will make almost everyone back them.

Personally I think a free trade defense should hold up. Sony sold them a product, it should be up to them how they want to sell it. The worst thing Sony should be able to do to them is stop selling them their product.

Wertz

brim4brim wrote:

Well they just included the pregnant woman part to try to give a more negative image of Sony by putting an image of it in peoples minds giving the whole thing a human angle that will make almost everyone back them.

Yeah I get why they did it but as mentioned it's inconsequential and it's not like Sony just decided "hey, let's f*ck up the livelihoods of mothers to be"...
Using the argument just makes them look bitter (which I've no doubt they are) and plays right into Sony's hands when they use terms like sour grapes, etc...

brim4brim wrote:

Personally I think a free trade defense should hold up. Sony sold them a product, it should be up to them how they want to sell it. The worst thing Sony should be able to do to them is stop selling them their product.

I agree 100%.
It's the fact that they could sell a similar specced PSP (and, more importantly, later a PS3) to the european market for a lower price than was available locally due solely to Sony's pricing policy that got them into trouble....the obvious solution is to either have a global pricing policy or to stop supplying the company....I mean how was what Lik Sang were doing anything different than what hundreds of asian sellers on ebay do, only on a larger scale?

Stoichkov

Wertz wrote:

the fact that they could sell a similar specced PSP (and, more importantly, later a PS3) to the european market for a lower price than was available locally due solely to Sony's pricing policy that got them into trouble

We all know that electronics are more expensive in europe in general, but isn't part of the reason lik-sang was cheaper was because they pay no customs taxes? The buyer takes the risk of getting caught by customs and paying the tax while lik-sang doesn't.

Maybe sony could sell the psp for the same price as lik-sang if it didn't have to pay such taxes, so perhaps comparing the two is unfair as one includes the full tax costs while the other has a risk of additional costs if caught by customs.

Wertz

Yeah, you're right...I should have omitted "solely"....however the VAT alone isn't the only factor in pricing differences, although it does account for a large proportion.
I have no idea of VAT/sales tax rates in HK but Japan is similar to the UK, yet both the PSP and the PS3 are/will be cheaper there....I have no lik sang page to refer to for prices but selling the PSP VAT free probably allowed them even more discount since they probably weren't paying any local VAT/sales tax either...

Play Asia is the only asian seller I can find offhand, and while they're currently not selling the PSP to Europe, the price for a base console pack is ~€160.
Buy that same pack in the UK and it's €225 (UK)....17% VAT (UK rate) doesn't make up that €65 (40%) price increase...

Stoichkov

Fact is Europe will always pay more. Some logical reasons are that Europe is a logistical nightmare with a multitude of languages and tax rates. The other reason is that we're rich and have a large amount of disposable income, so companies have no problem profit taking in Europe.

I agree with you that we shouldn't be paying such a large premium, I also feel that Sony shouldn't have made such a mess of the lik-sang issue.

My problem is all the hand-ringing about Sony's pricing. People are bitching (not aimed at you Wertz, you seem fair and unbiased) about the way its cheaper in Japan, yet there is no mention that the 360 is far, far cheaper in Japan than in Europe. The DS is cheaper in Japan, every console is cheaper in both the US and Japan, yet some would have you believe that only Sony charge more in Europe.

I think I might go back to top-trumps till all this next-gen/fanboy hysteria has died down!

koneko

For those that haven't heard yet.... Play-Asia have cancelled all pre-orders for PS3's, presumably they're worried Sony will try to shut them down if they do or something similar.

projectmayhem

koneko wrote:

For those that haven't heard yet.... Play-Asia have cancelled all pre-orders for PS3's, presumably they're worried Sony will try to shut them down if they do or something similar.

and if the pregnant staff of lik-sang had done the same, they'd still be in business

koneko

projectmayhem wrote:

and if the pregnant staff of lik-sang had done the same, they'd still be in business

:rolleyes:

You really need to get to a hospital STAT to fix that fatal strain of fanboyism you've caught somewhere

tba

Highly pregnant? tut tut. Not only have they a child to care for, they have a habit to keep up too. SONY SAYS NO TO DRUGS!

po0k

Why would someone buy a PS3?

Burning Eclipse

SyxPak wrote:

Why would someone buy a PS3?

lol

Seems like a straight forward question. To quote Hirai "content is king, it's a cliche but a truism"
Sony will have content, most likely good content at that, coming out of it's ass regardless of it's 'interesting' business practices.

humanji

SyxPak wrote:

Why would someone buy a PS3?

To play PS3 games?









I'll get my coat...

FlimFlam

I e-mailed Sony last week and received the following reply:
(forgot to post this up before)

Dear customer

Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding www.LikSang.com's recent
closure.

I understand from your correspondence that you feel aggrieved regarding the
closure of the website www.liksang.com. I can advise that Sony Computer
Entertainment have successfully sued Pacific Game Technology (Holding)
Limited (one of whose company trading names is LikSang.com) for infringing
our Intellectual property rights. The case was not contested by 'Lik Sang'
who therefore incurred no legal costs. As a result of winning this case
we were awarded substantial costs against Lik Sang which have not been
paid. Therefore as there has been no extra financial burden on LikSang, we
would deny that our actions have had anything to do with this website
closing and can confirm that the legal entity is still trading.

I can also advise that the importing of any PlayStation product into Europe
from an NTSC territory is against the law. These units do not carry a CE
mark which means that they are not compliant with European consumer law.
In addition, any imported PlayStation product will not be covered under
warranty within Europe We enforce this not least to protect our consumers
from some parallel importers who include components in their package that
do not conform to EU safety standards and also from buying a unit that, for
example, will not then play movies or games that are purchased in Europe

Whilst we appreciate you taking the time to write to us to express your
views regarding the importing of PlayStation product, we are not able to
respond to any individual comments on this matter.

Yours sincerely

Playstation Ireland
Customer Service Team
www.scee.com

Zombrex

Its funny how the big corporations are all on for open markets and free trade, except when it actually means they lose some control, profits and ability to f**k their customers ....

ambro25

FlimFlam wrote:

I e-mailed Sony last week and received the following reply:
(forgot to post this up before)

(...)

We enforce this not least to protect our consumers from some parallel importers who include components in their package that do not conform to EU safety standards and also from buying a unit that, for example, will not then play movies or games that are purchased in Europe.

(...)

WHOA! - PS3 games not region free! On the record! You heard it confirmed here first!

BlitzKrieg

quick question?

Where does the email say PS3?

It could be referring to PS2 games.

Retr0gamer

BlitzKrieg wrote:

quick question?

Where does the email say PS3?

It could be referring to PS2 games.

Which is the funny thing since the case was for selling PSPs and PS3 hardware that is totally region free.

BlitzKrieg

hmm so could he be talking about ps3 then?

another PR blunder in the wings for sony?

thebman

BlitzKrieg wrote:

quick question?

Where does the email say PS3?

It could be referring to PS2 games.

It doesn't name any platform so technically it is referring to any game played on the system be it PS3, PS2, PSOne or other (VC or XBLA type system).

Anyway we'll see. I'm not sure you can pull them on it, it could of been a slip of the tongue/keyboard. They probably are supposed to have PS2 or 3 in there. I presume that PS3 games are region free but developers choice if they want to region lock them or not.