Medieval Martial Arts/Combat Group.

Jon .

The Dublin Kern Warriors combat Group are open to new members. We operate in the periods between 1000ad and 1500ad and we offer membership to male and female from the age of 14 upwards. We “train” every Sunday in a school hall in Blanchardstown where we teach members how to use - spear, pole arm, kern axe, long and short sword, one and two handed axe, dagger, javelin, darts and long bow archery, as well as hand to hand fighting in a combative and martial way, {not stage or show fighting,}. we also train using techniqes based on the historical manuals by German and Italian masters,

Our group is known as Cumann Duchás Beo na h-Eireann. Our range of activities cover - Gaelic Culture, Irish History, Traditional Crafts,Authentic Clothing and Armour, Social Outings, Living History Camping.
We are also available for workshops/ Seminars and displays.
For more information or to join us please make contact at rjwolfchilde@yahoo.ie and mention this posting.
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Jon O'Neill

oblivious

Where abouts in blanchardstown do you train?

droc

I've always been intrigued by this sort of thing, I'd say it's a lot of fun.

Where do the martial arts techniques that you use come from? Is there some form or authentified lineage of people who have been learning this since 1000 AD? Are the techniques based on old texts?

Thanks

DROC

pearsquasher

I've met a few medieval MA recreationists in my day and always have fun with them. Like in any dicipline they range from the crackpots to the extremely skillfull and I'd also be interested in hearing some more about this group, including training lineage, knowledge sources etc. Any info on how group battles may have been fought over different periods?

I met some English guys who studied in-depth how the English broadsword would have actually been used at it beared a lot of resemblance to Japanese tachi-sword fighting (an old style katana used in battle), as i understand it. I once met a bunch of different guys before who did varying "modern" oriental arts -taekwondo, gendai karate, wing chung, who tried to fit european weaponry and armour into their martial language and sometimes it worked and sometimes it was obviously a frankensteins monster of a thing. In the end the good stuff boiled down to those who sought out the very best knowledge and went to the people who've been researching/practicing this the most. I met one guy once who REALLY understood this stuff and had a passion and was beyond style in any weapon he picked up. I very much like the non-sporting side of what they did too. Only one guy, and Italian duelist chappy seemed as interested as me in the grappling, close quarters stuff that comes with classical Italian fencing.

Jon .

We train in a school hall in Blanchardstown village across from the Bell pub. Our training is based on medieval text from various German and Italian masters. The Medieval Longsword in particular is very similar to the Japanese sword systems particularly the guards and stances, in fact if you take any weapons system from anywhere around the globe, take away various elements, culture, geography, clothing/armour, climate, creed, etc you are left with a skeletal structure that is universal. How many ways can you swing a sword, stick, axe, pole? You see this skeletal pattern in all systems. When you take this skeleton, add a countries culture, geography, creed, etc. what emerges is a particular style. It is this skeleton and the medieval text that we base our training on, as well as the influence of clothing/armour, battlefield tactics, and types of weapons that were used.

pearsquasher

I agree with you somewhat on the skelatal pattern idea. The training sounds like fun - I just happen to be doing the Japanese version of it, to a degree, I guess. I think the Japanese Ryuha system brings with it a lot of things that learning from manuals may not. However it is lacking on the Celtic culture side of things though!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Jon .

Is not to be confused with

Jon

Big_G

There are universal truths shared amongst martial systems throughout the world. However, I wouldn't compare the European longsword techniques to the Japanese.

I have never swung a longsword, but I have studied (the very basics) of Japanese shinken techniques and I know that the Japanese sword is different because it has a curved blade vs. the straight blade of the longsword. This produces a cutting technique which is entirely different to the longsword.

Longsword (from what I know) uses large arc swings to 'chop'. The Japanese sword techniques do not use chopping but a specific and very technical cutting technique involving arcs and pushing/pulling, in order to make use of the curved blade. Chopping with a katana will give a cut but not do much damage, but 'slicing' will sever limbs.

This is an extremely difficult technique to master. The longsword uses its weight to 'hack', whereas the katana uses its blade length and curvature to 'slice'. This guy makes it look easy: www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9txp3AAroI

Tameshigiri is extremely difficult and I have witnessed failed cuts. If the correct technique is not used, and a person 'chops' the katana will be buried in the straw or even bounce off.

pearsquasher

Hi Big_G,

I never studied Longsword either but am studying various Japanese sword _ katana, tachi, wakizashi, and the use of the tachi has some similarities with longsword if I'm going by what the folks at sword foruml international say about it as well as people I've met who are involved in longsword research. It's a lot to do with in-fighting with the sword against armoured opponents.

I agree that the katana nor tachi are "choppers" alright. Not so sure the Longsword is either to be honest, not for 3 hours on a battlefield with armoured opponents. Maybe Jon knows about this?

Jon .

The early forms of swords in early medieal europe, were single broadswords type used commoly in conjunction with a shield. The armour around this time consisted mainly of chainmail, leather armour, etc. Broadsword was mainly used for slicing and hacking. However, with the emergence of plate armour, the shield in some cultures fell into disuse and the swords became longer and more tapered hence we have the longsword. The longsword was more commonly used for thrusting in between the plates, with which continuing the evolution of the swords, we have the finely tapered blades of the renaissance period.

It is a common misconseption that the medieval swords were actually heavy as well as the plate armour. Most swords be it longsword or broadsword, weighed in at only about 3.5 lbs. TV and movies have a lot to answer for. A harness of armour, not a suit as most people think it's called, is evenly distrubted around the body and is like wearing a second skin when one gets used to training in it. The technology of blacksmithing today is way behind of what it was in those times. Try fighting in a full harness of armour and weapons for 45 minutes straight with 2000 combattants on the field and you'll get a taste of what it's like as we have on many occasions in the UK.

The katana is similar in technique to the medieval longsword with the exception of cutting applications because of the katana geometry.

pearsquasher

Good stuff Jon. I recently had a try of a type of Japanese armour which I'm sure share some characteristics with European medival types (and modern), and indeed you got to be damn economical with movement. On the film set I was wearing a "Saxon" leather jerkin and had a shield and short broadsword and it had a host of different possibilities. It's all facinating, eh?