Seeing as it's nearly xmas!...

Nature Boy

Ok, I know it's too early for anything to do with christmas but here goes anyway...

How do you feel about christmas? It is obviously to do with religion, but has it become more than a religious holiday? Do you celebrate it with your friends and family but see no religious significance to it? Or do you just ignore it completely?

Do you think we are hypocrites if we celebrate it as athiests?

I use the term celebrate loosely by the way!

Zombrex

Nature Boy wrote:

Ok, I know it's too early for anything to do wth christmas but here goes anyway...

How do you feel about christmas? It is obviously to do with religion, but has it become more than a religious holiday?

I've no problem with it, in fact I love it. There is no harm taking time out from things like work to rejoin with family, have fun, relax etc. I see Christmas and New Years as one holiday (the "holidays" as the yanks call it), before the new year starts and everyone goes back to their boring pathetic lives

I see no problem doing this, in the same way that to me Paddy's day is more a celebration of Irishness that the religious aspect of christianity being introduced to this land (my anti-catholic friend thinks it should be a day of national morning )

I think Christians have more problem with the modern day Christmas that atheists would, since the religious aspect is running a very distant second place to the holiday aspect

Oh, and isn't there a law against discussing Christmas until after Haloween?

Dades

Wicknight wrote:

Oh, and isn't there a law against discussing Christmas until after Haloween?

And rightly so.

*Refuses to participate in poll until at least December*

Nature Boy

Wicknight wrote:

Oh, and isn't there a law against discussing Christmas until after Haloween?

I know, I know. In fact it shouldn't be until at least December. Maybe I should be banned for even mentioning it

sonic juice

Ah it's just an excuse to have a good time,I don't think anyone's thinking of baby jesus when they down a few bottles and stuff themselves with enough food to feed a continent.

Beruthiel

sonic juice wrote:

Ah it's just an excuse to have a good time,I don't think anyone's thinking of baby jesus when they down a few bottles and stuff themselves with enough food to feed a continent.

My feelings exactly. It's a week off to have a good time and break up the miserable winter.
Anything that enables me to not be at work and being able to sleep in, eat and drink, is all good

Maybe I should be banned for even mentioning it

I second this

Nature Boy

The Atheist wrote:

*Refuses to participate in poll until at least December*

But then again, I did start a thread on athiest funerals, so maybe we shouldn't have talked about that until we are all at least 70 or something!

Binomate

I accidentally selected option two. I meant option 3. I see it as comparable to a magic show. You don't believe the magic is true, but you can still enjoy the illusion.

Beruthiel

Nature Boy wrote:

But then again, I did start a thread on athiest funerals, so maybe we shouldn't have talked about that until we are all at least 70 or something!

In fairness, some of us burn the candle at both ends and may not actually get to be 70....

Zillah

I love Christmas. The best aspect of an otherwise crap philosophy.

Step 1 - Get together with those you love.
Step 2 - Eat loads of really good food.
Step 3 - Swap presents.
Step 4 - Get pissed.

All the while forget that this has something to do with some Jewish guy born ages ago.

Brilliant.

Dave!

It's a family holiday as far as I'm concerned.

Scofflaw

I always celebrate it as Midwinter. It's solstice plus three days just to check the sun really is coming back.


cordially,
Scofflaw

5uspect

Yeah christmas is just a really good holiday, its great fun for anyone to enjoy without the need to have a religious reason to do so.

Nature Boy

Yeah I see it as a good holiday and I love it. But sometimes I do feel a bit hypocritical because it's a (or at least supposed to be a) religious period. I was just wondering how everyone felt about it.

Hmmm, maybe this would have been better in the christianity forum just to see if they have a problem with athiests celebrating xmas...

robindch

> But sometimes I do feel a bit hypocritical because it's a (or at least supposed
> to be a) religious period.

The history of the festival of christmas is quite interesting. Without going into it again, because we already have, the feast derived in part from a Roman festival at the end of December named 'Saturnalia' which was well known for everybody taking time off work, guzzling food and drink and swapping presents. The christmas tree was a later import from what's now Germany, AFAIR, while other bits and pieces of the celebration were celtic and derived from the general dingdong around the winter solstice.

AFAIR, It was formally plagiarized in the fourth century by the Roman emperor Constantine who made it a christian festival, which it's remained ever since.

Didn't start out that way, though.

Dave!

robindch wrote:

The christmas tree was a later import from what's now Germany, AFAIR

Indeed, didn't Martin Luther "invent" the Christmas tree? The fella who started Protestantism? Or perhaps that's a myth.

Funsterdelux

Scofflaw wrote:

I always celebrate it as Midwinter. It's solstice plus three days just to check the sun really is coming back.


cordially,
Scofflaw

I agree, I hate the build up we all have to endure, and then its such an anticlimax, similar to that of the Ryder Cup.
Even though it sickens me arse, still there is a bit of craic.

Can I say arse here?

Nature Boy

Funsterdelux wrote:

Can I say arse here?

Yeah sure. We're athiests, we can swear all we want! We're not going to hell anyway so it doesn't matter!

IFX

Nature Boy wrote:

How do you feel about christmas? QUOTE]
I would have more respect for it if was just a christian celebration. It is now a celebration of rampant neo-liberalism if you ask me. It's all about indulgence and spending money.
I have more respect for Christians than hardcore neo-libs. I also don't like being told when to celebrate e.g. I don't don't like celebrating NYE's. I prefer to celebrate achievements of my own or others not calender events.

I try not to celebrate it, as that is consistent with my beliefs or lack off.
I don't put up any Christmas decorations in my appartment. I participate in social functions, merely to conform to society and those in my life.

I don't respect any atheist who will harp on and on about how stupid Christianity is and then fully celebrate Christmas - I think it's hyprocritical.

Scofflaw

DaveMcG wrote:

Indeed, didn't Martin Luther "invent" the Christmas tree? The fella who started Protestantism? Or perhaps that's a myth.

It's a pagan custom, AFAIK.

cordially,
Scofflaw

CerebralCortex

I find it to be commercial and a desperately lonely time personally. I hate more the build for a day that only lasts 12 hours. To summarise a holiday that filled my heart with joy now sickens me.:mad:

aidan24326

IFX wrote:

Nature Boy wrote:

I don't respect any atheist who will harp on and on about how stupid Christianity is and then fully celebrate Christmas - I think it's hyprocritical.

Christmas is not exclusively a Christian celebration . As Scofflaw said it's origins can be traced back to pagan festivals centred around the Winter Solstice. In fact there is considerable disagreement among historians as to when Jesus was born (not to mention whether he was born) with no evidence that it was late December, so as a celebration of Jesus' birthday and Christianity in general it is an arbitrary date which owes more (AFAIK) to ancient pagan rituals than the Christianity religions which now claim the day as their own.

So there is really no big deal with an atheist enjoying Christmas as a holiday season of reuniting with family, friends etc., outside of any religious context.
Personally I'm not a big fan as I dislike the in-your-face commercialism that just seems to get worse year after year. It has become a celebration of greed. That said, I won't say no to a few days off at any time.

lostexpectation

anybody see newsnight last night, it was about disestablishing the church of england, a secular guy said the church going rates were like 2%, which seems a mite low but then the bishop said em we still get 48% of the population going at christmas.... and the Wark said I don't think going to a carol service really shows a devotion.

Asiaprod

lostexpectation wrote:

anybody see newsnight last night, it was about disestablishing the church of england, a secular guy said the church going rates were like 2%, which seems a mite low but then the bishop said em we still get 48% of the population going at christmas.... and the Wark said I don't think going to a carol service really shows a devotion.

lostexpectation, start a new thread on this, we are talking about Christmas,

My comment on christmas would be: Turkey, stuffing and lots of gravy..........mmm.

robindch

Turkey? Yuk. It's a good leg lamb at this skeptic's house!

lostexpectation

Asiaprod wrote:

lostexpectation, start a new thread on this, we are talking about Christmas,

My comment on christmas would be: Turkey, stuffing and lots of gravy..........mmm.

and so am I.

colm-ccfc84

To me xmas is a materialistic time, a time where i give and receive presents. I do not do anything religious for it, seen as i am an atheist!

legspin

robindch wrote:

Turkey? Yuk. It's a good leg lamb at this skeptic's house!

Gotta be Goose imo. Stuff with a sausage, potato and chestnut mix first and then with a breadcrumb, red onion, parsley and lime juice. Just make sure the goose is well pricked and sits at least two inches off the floor of the roasting dish. I would trample over my mum to get to it (especially if 'tis hers:o )

Zillah

robindch wrote:

Turkey? Yuk. It's a good leg lamb at this skeptic's house!

How casually you discuss the annihilation and consumption of other living entities!

These atheists have no morals.

robindch

> How casually you discuss the annihilation and consumption of other living entities!

And how best to roast them, too. In fact, we've been known to eat shrimps and wear clothes cut from two different cloths too, sometimes at the same time! I'm constantly surprised we're not lightning-bolted every time we step outside.

Asiaprod

Zillah wrote:

How casually you discuss the annihilation and consumption of other living entities!

These atheists have no morals.

Me bad too, we eat live food over here, well only once and that was plenty for me, the wife being Japanese is a totally different story. If you can catch it, you can eat it.

Legspin, nice call, I want to eat that:)

Dave!

What are you people, sick? Lamb? Goose?!?

Turkey + Ham + gravy = FTW!!!

Zillah

robindch wrote:

In fact, we've been known to eat shrimps and wear clothes cut from two different cloths too, sometimes at the same time!

Shrimp?! But they're animals that inhabit the sea that have neither scales nor fins!

abetarrush

I dont think Christmas is much of a religious holiday anymore

Most people who celebrate it and consider themselves Catholic dont even know who Jesus is


I see it as more of a celebration of family and friends, and a nice chance to show some cheesy appreciation

Asiaprod

abetarrush wrote:

Most people who celebrate it and consider themselves Catholic dont even know who Jesus is

Thats a pretty sweeping statement, how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Asiaprod

Zillah wrote:

Shrimp?! But they're animals that inhabit the sea that have neither scales nor fins!

Sounds a bit like those carrion eating lions:rolleyes:

Nature Boy

aidan24326 wrote:

IFX wrote:

Christmas is not exclusively a Christian celebration . As Scofflaw said it's origins can be traced back to pagan festivals centred around the Winter Solstice. In fact there is considerable disagreement among historians as to when Jesus was born (not to mention whether he was born) with no evidence that it was late December, so as a celebration of Jesus' birthday and Christianity in general it is an arbitrary date which owes more (AFAIK) to ancient pagan rituals than the Christianity religions which now claim the day as their own.

So there is really no big deal with an atheist enjoying Christmas as a holiday season of reuniting with family, friends etc., outside of any religious context.
Personally I'm not a big fan as I dislike the in-your-face commercialism that just seems to get worse year after year. It has become a celebration of greed. That said, I won't say no to a few days off at any time.

I think I was misquoted there. I didn't actually say that... (I was quoted in the original message)

Nature Boy

Zillah wrote:

How casually you discuss the annihilation and consumption of other living entities!

These atheists have no morals.

Hmmmm. How many athiests are vegetarain/vegan too?? Maybe that's an idea for a new thread...

abetarrush

Asiaprod wrote:

Thats a pretty sweeping statement, how did you arrive at that conclusion?

I was speakin figuritively

Most people who say they're catholic dont go to mass at all, or pray etc

Dades

Ahem...

Wacker

DaveMcG wrote:

What are you people, sick? Lamb? Goose?!?

Turkey + Ham + gravy = FTW!!!

I find mysle disagreeing with the lot of you. The only meal to have at Christmas is Beef Wellington. Take a huge ass block of fillet steak, cover it in mushrooms and onions and pastry, add about six tons of spud, carrots, gravy, red wine, brandy, et all, and take ten years of your life. Now THAT is how you celebrate a time of year!

adam_ccfc

As far as I'm concerned, it's just like any other holiday - I get to drink exorbitant amounts of booze and sleep in all day, and religion doesn't even enter my mind, so it's fine by me.

Tar.Aldarion

Nature Boy wrote:

Hmmmm. How many athiests are vegetarain/vegan too?? Maybe that's an idea for a new thread...

Well, all the clever ones of course.

Thread away, and then we can have the 'How many vegetarian/vegan agnostics/atheists with swords are there?' thread.

rainbow kirby

I'm not a huge fan of Christmas (this will be my 5th Christmas working in retail, that's enough to truly kill one's soul!), but it's nice to have some time off college and to see some of my family members that I don't normally get to see.